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Old 03-07-2011, 05:19 PM   #151
bk brkr baker
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Screw the naysayers, it's an American V-4 ,BABY!

It's pretty impressive how far they've come in a reasonably short amount of time.

It sounds great , looks like a real bike and if the hp figures are right should be quite livley.

I look forward to a big magazine shootout between all the Japanese and German competition and this.
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:43 AM   #152
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Funny thing is, they are going to have all the handling issues of a longitudinal crank, but then twirl the torque through 90 degrees and drive the wheel via a chain.

I know those handling issues are ameliorated these days by various tricks, but there are reasons why all the MotoGP V-engines run a transverse crank.

That aside, I'm liking the look of this more and more.

Another interesting aspect is their decision to aim for a market niche established makers have stepped away from.

While acknowledging that the handlebars will be adjustable, the ride posture shown in that video is uncompromisingly on the 'sport' side of sport touring. And the bike looks much more like an ST4 or VFR than an FJR or KGT.

I am guessing that is a passion-driven thing: these guys wanted to build that sort of bike.

And then they've asked people who own or say they want that sort of bike, what they'd have if they could.

I have this half-formed view that sometimes various 'experts' want to abandon whole categories on the basis that they don't sell, when the problem is not with the category but with the detail of what is offered in that category.

These guys seem to have paid astonishing attention to the key details. Six-gallon fuel tank (about 24L). Direct petrol injection, which when I think about it should help the low-speed lean-running smoothness a lot as well as helping frugality and hence adding range. An engine with character, we can guess (and hope). But not a high-maintenance character: quite the opposite, it appears. There seems to be plenty of room between the pillion footpegs and bags, and bags and mufflers. The bags look big. Chain adjustment is via eccentric axle carriers, which affect ride height when moved and hence steering, but not enough to bother road riders, and make alignment easy. Chain drive, because that's good enough these days for touring, has sporting advantages, and saves on development. Etc etc.

I look on with great interest ... and speculate that the icing on the cake (which I bet they've not specified) would be electronic cruise control: the first on a tourer this sporty.
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:55 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funhouse View Post
Does the engine sit 'down at the bow' in the frame? Bruce
It looks that way.

Makes sense really the rider is the biggest mover of Center of Gravity, so putting the motor low and forward cancels that and get the weight balanced out somewhat. Its a normal thing for sportbikes, the engineers try to get the motor as close to the front wheel as possible to both increase forward weight bias and to even out CG to a more desirable level.

Since you can basically think of it as a double wide, water cooled Guzzi.


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Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Funny thing is, they are going to have all the handling issues of a longitudinal crank, but then twirl the torque through 90 degrees and drive the wheel via a chain.
That isn't anything I would be terribly worried about. I think I read that they counter spin the transmission to balance it. I've ridden both Guzzi's and a Rocket III threes that both had longitudinally mounted to motors without noticing any real handling quirks. In fact the 82' Guzzi California two was quite a good handler for a 29 year old bike.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:30 AM   #154
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I really like what I see and read of this bike. What about the proximity of the heads to the rider's knees? Looks like it could get plenty toasty.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:38 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Doug Pirahna View Post
I really like what I see and read of this bike. What about the proximity of the heads to the rider's knees? Looks like it could get plenty toasty.

Look at any Guzzi -- the rider's knees are way closer to the heads than on this bike.

I'm just thoroughly impressed that these two guys really have actually done their homework on what was missing on a good sport-touring bike. They really do seem to have a passion to make this bike exactly what they wanted, bean counters be damned, which is worth something in my book. Doesn't mean I can afford one but it's awesome to know this bike is going to be out there and have a chance. I have never understood why American motorcycle manufacturers can't make anything but cruisers. These guys just seem to be engineering nerds who really like motorcycles and that is exactly the kind of person who should be building them. That was Mr. Honda. I'd like to see it more.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:51 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by DevilNinjaDog View Post
Look at any Guzzi -- the rider's knees are way closer to the heads than on this bike.

His knees look like they're resting on the heads to me! I don't think you insert your legs through the heads on a Guzzi to ride it do you?
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:57 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Doug Pirahna View Post

His knees look like they're resting on the heads to me! I don't think you insert your legs through the heads on a Guzzi to ride it do you?
Anybody have a photo of this guy on there from another angle?
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:08 AM   #158
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Anybody have a photo of this guy on there from another angle?
Check the video in post 147 around the 3:00 mark.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:37 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by DevilNinjaDog View Post
I'm just thoroughly impressed that these two guys really have actually done their homework on what was missing on a good sport-touring bike.
What is missing on a good sport touring bike?

It seems to me this bike is in the same sport touring - with emphasis on sport -as the Bandit 1250, the VFR800, and possibly VFR1200, as well as the CBF1000 which is available in this market, and maybe the ZX14. I keep hearing from riders who do a lot of long distance riding that they don't want a chain driven bike. To me, this bike would be more attractive with a belt than a chain. Sure, chain gives you a choice of gearing, but on a touring bike it's not critical, and chain maintenence is not a big deal but still, a belt is virtually maintenance free.

Let's hope they don't price it out of reach for their target demographic.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:47 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Gadget Boy View Post
What is missing on a good sport touring bike? ...

... Let's hope they don't price it out of reach for their target demographic.
Depends a bit how much the "character" aspect is relevant. 1650cc longitudinal v4 based on a US v8? Sounds like it could have a bigger personality than its Japanese rivals - if you like that sort of thing (and I do).

But we are still waiting on a lot of the details. We are hoping it will be much lighter than a VFR1200, and if it is not, then it will be a much harder sell.

Similarly, if this motor does not feel a lot better to ride - for those who are sensitive to that sort of thing - than a Japanese transverse crank inline 4 of two thirds its swept volume, then you are right: it will struggle.

Especially if it is also offered at a large multiple of their prices.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:56 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
Depends a bit how much the "character" aspect is relevant. 1650cc longitudinal v4 based on a US v8? Sounds like it could have a bigger personality than its Japanese rivals - if you like that sort of thing (and I do).
If engine "character" which is subjective is a plus, the bike's styling - also subjective - is a minus to my eyes.. The styling doesn't have a drool factor to these subjective eyes, it doesn't make me think "i want it".. and if the headlights are what gives cars and bikes their "face", the KTM 950/990 headlights used on the Motus are kind of old and have been around for about 7 years... even on KTM's it's time for a face lift.. The back-end looks good, the front not so much..

I've been on their mailing list from the outset and I look forward to what they end up doing.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:03 AM   #162
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Well there you go. I love the styling. Sport touring is all about finding beauty in the workaday, IMO, and it seems to me they've done a great job.

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Old 03-08-2011, 10:17 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Gadget Boy View Post
What is missing on a good sport touring bike?

It seems to me this bike is in the same sport touring - with emphasis on sport -as the Bandit 1250, the VFR800, and possibly VFR1200, as well as the CBF1000 which is available in this market, and maybe the ZX14. I keep hearing from riders who do a lot of long distance riding that they don't want a chain driven bike. To me, this bike would be more attractive with a belt than a chain. Sure, chain gives you a choice of gearing, but on a touring bike it's not critical, and chain maintenence is not a big deal but still, a belt is virtually maintenance free.

Let's hope they don't price it out of reach for their target demographic.

I was thinking the same thing about a belt drive. More efficient, lighter, quieter, lower maintenance etc.

But the whole bike looks very interesting. If it really does weight 500lbs dry, it's a terrific achievment. The sort of useable torque available from a well aspirated 1600 should be very entertaining. I applaud their decision to go big-bore, low-rev, high-torque. That makes for fun and efficient, if done correctly. And it appears it's probably been done correctly.

I think Zx14's, VFR1200's, FJR1300's and the big bore BMW's are neat bikes. But I'm not interested in riding 650-750 pounds of motorcycle like a sport bike.

But comfortable, 500lbs and 160hp?

That could be pretty damn cool.

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Old 03-08-2011, 10:27 AM   #164
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The bike seems really intriguing from a technical standpoint, but it is obvious it is still an artisan project. The KTM headlight, the off-the-rack GIVI bags... it all says "garage job," which I guess it's what it still is.

Also, the styling is really rather bland. I think they should have invested in the services of a good designer and looked for a way to give the bike a distinct character. Not necessarily wild and crazy, but something that immediately gave the brand some sort of identity. As it is, to the uninitiated the bike looks a bit pedestrian - this might or might not be a big problem depending a lot on the asking price.

Hard not be impressed with the two guys that are building this, though... I hope they succeed big time!
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:35 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lornce View Post

I think Zx14's, VFR1200's, FJR1300's and the big bore BMW's are neat bikes. But I'm not interested in riding 650-750 pounds of motorcycle like a sport bike.

But comfortable, 500lbs and 160hp?

That could be pretty damn cool.


As a point of order the curb weight of the ZX-14 is a claimed 566lbs....backed up by MotoUSA who weighed it at 563 fully fueled.

....and at a 160rwhp its sounds like the bike fits your desired specs pretty closely.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/232/48...omparison.aspx

Now if they would just make it NOT ugly.
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