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Old 10-22-2012, 08:58 PM   #1651
rocker59
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Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
The Motus needs no history, and will have to develop its own panache based on its modern products. Indeed, I've had my fill of new bike companies who buy an old name and try to cash in on its panache. Very few of those efforts have succeeded. Triumph is the only one I can think of that has really made it. MV Agusta sort of, but they struggle along, and Norton looks to be sinking yet again. A dozen others have failed, some multiple times.

Conversely, Victory built their success from scratch, based on a new American product in the upper level of the market, by doing a good job. WIthout "history" or "panache" or any "F-ing reason for anyone to know who they are, what they are, or why they are".
Victory (Polaris) builds cruisers. Half of the USA motorcycle market. There have also been a laundry list of "boutique" clones that succeeded for a time during the cruiser boom of the mid-'90s to mid-'00s.

And yes, "MOTUS" (W ever TF that is) will need name recognition to succeed in thier business. And the business of "sporty sport touring" bikes will be a tough one.


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Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
It doesn't sound like you'd like to be wrong. Indeed, one of things I find interesting about this conversation (here and on other boards) is the persistance and vitriol of the naysayers. If it was just a bike you didn't think you would buy, y'all could just say "I don't think I'd pay that much for it/it doesn't appeal to me that much/but I hope someone likes it and they do well". Instead what we get is a bunch of people who wish it to fail, and try very hard to argue that it will fail, because they personally can't afford one. Sour grapes, in great bunches.

PhilB
Look, I'm not spewing vitriol. I may be a pessimist, but come on...

All these guys have is a few of preproduction bikes they've been carting around. And, for a long time now...

I'd like to see less talk and more action.

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Old 10-23-2012, 01:46 AM   #1652
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Alright, over 1600 posts of all kind of bilge in this thread.

Is there anyone, ANYONE who is actually lining up, money in hand, to bring one of these home when one becomes available in their area? This isn't some sort of snarky challenge, I am genuinely curious.

Anyone?
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:35 AM   #1653
Moronic
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Ducati did. The ST line. Ducati quit.

I'm sure they'd have kept the ST2/3/4 in the lineup, if the sales were there.

The sport end of the sport-touring market is a niche within a niche. If Ducati gave up on this sub-niche, why will MOTUS succeed?



Back up the train a little bit further. Moto Guzzi built a great sport-tourer. The V11 LeMans. They quit it in 2004. Rarity and exclusivity didn't sell this $15k bike. Why will MOTUS succeed?


For heaven's sake ... Ducati was and remains a byword for high per-mile running costs. Why would Motus succeed where they failed? Perhaps because the engine is designed to offer exceptionally low per-mile running costs. Handy in a bike often bought for clocking big yearly mileages.

What about Guzzi? Low per-mile running costs. Plenty of character. But maybe slow and shaft-driven and a big lean onto low 'bars wasn't what people wanted.

Have critics forgotten the claimed specs of this thing? More horsepower, only a little more weight than a Multi 1200, from a 1650cc engine with K16 torque. Features? With a feature like that, maybe you don't need lots of others.


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Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
Depends on how it feels to actually ride -- the proof is in the bottling. ;)

PhilB

And that is the bit many seem to be missing. The bike MIGHT be worth $30K to enough people IF it offers the performance, range, durability, easy maintenance and comfort it claims AND the motor and chassis feel engaging in the way of many a Ducati or Guzzi, and not somewhat forgettable in the way of the similarly laid out Honda ST1100 (haven't tried the 13).

Yes, I enjoyed several long trips on that Honda; but no, I doubt I would pay $30K for a 1650cc chain-driven hydraulic-valved version, even if it weighed 100 lbs less. Unless when I tried it it had that special something. Then I might (if it sold over here).
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:55 AM   #1654
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I was impressed, Cherie couldn't understand my excitement though. I want one really bad. My inseam is only 29"; but, the seat design was perfect for me. No problem flat footing it.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:16 AM   #1655
Moronic
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Originally Posted by ADK View Post
Get one and park it next to your Yankee http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&c...9,r:1,s:0,i:74

Funny thing is, having become entranced by my Ossa 250 enduro - used for everything from trail riding to commuting to road racing to adventure touring - I got quite infatuated with the idea of owning one of these:




At one point I met someone who had ridden one, and who said it was fabulous. If I'd managed to get one, likely I'd still have it.

(For those who don't get the Yankee connection, read the name on the crankcase cover. The US Yankee was a dirt bike based on two Ossa singles. Ossa used the motor in a road bike, but didn't build many.)
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:10 AM   #1656
sakurama
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Originally Posted by Yostwerks View Post
Is that someone else you ?

If not, why not ?

Tom
It might be. Probably not right now as I have a few irons in the fire and two little kids but in a year or two after I get the chance to ride one I might very well be. I love sport tourers, I've watched their videos, I think they "get it" in the way that I do so the bike is on a short list. Actually, there's no other bike on the list really as there's nothing else like it. You certainly can't compare an ST2 to the 1600cc V-4 Motus. Completely different and I loved my ST2. The Multistrada is a closer comparison.

All this whining and complaining reminds me of guys at a bar who meet a completely hot girl, totally smart, georgous and together who then blows them off. Suddenly that perfect girl is a "bitch". Yeah, sour grapes for sure.

I completely agree with the poster who said, if you don't like it, don't buy it. This would be a much more interesting thread if people discussed the merits of the bike, the design etc. But it's tiring to listen to people whine and kvetch about something they have no experience with or simply can't afford. You know what? I can't afford a Ferrari but that doesn't mean they suck or I want them to fail. On the contrary, I want them to succeed because I like what they represent.

Gregor
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:05 AM   #1657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opmike View Post
Alright, over 1600 posts of all kind of bilge in this thread.

Is there anyone, ANYONE who is actually lining up, money in hand, to bring one of these home when one becomes available in their area? This isn't some sort of snarky challenge, I am genuinely curious.

Anyone?
As I've said in this thread already, it's a possibility for me, if it offers a really nice riding experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sakurama View Post
... All this whining and complaining reminds me of guys at a bar who meet a completely hot girl, totally smart, georgous and together who then blows them off. Suddenly that perfect girl is a "bitch". Yeah, sour grapes for sure.

I completely agree with the poster who said, if you don't like it, don't buy it. This would be a much more interesting thread if people discussed the merits of the bike, the design etc. But it's tiring to listen to people whine and kvetch about something they have no experience with or simply can't afford. You know what? I can't afford a Ferrari but that doesn't mean they suck or I want them to fail. On the contrary, I want them to succeed because I like what they represent.

Gregor
+1!

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Old 10-23-2012, 11:58 AM   #1658
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Does anyone actually OWN a Motus YET? IF they are ever offered for sale, I'm sure they would sell a few, because you can sell a few of anything. There are enough wealthy people out there that could easily buy one on impulse. But that will not keep a company going.

Triumph succeeded because they had not been out of business that long, people loved the Triumph brand, and the owner of the company was a savvy businessman who had the know how to run a company. And he didn't need to raise money, he already had the money to get the company going, and his investment paid off well.

Excelsior Henderson failed because their bikes were not well received, they were running on borrowed money which ran put at a critical time, and they had nothing to fall back on.

Indian has failed about 20 times because people do not want a Harley with Indian fenders for twice the price. And unlike Triumph, the real Indian has been gone too long for anybody to remember them.

Victory has succeeded so far because they build v-twin cruisers that are more reliable and cost less than Harleys. There are quite a few riders out there who like big v-twin cruisers, but don't really care for Harleys because of the "Harley scene", and Harleys poser image. But they wouldn't be caught dead on a Japanese motorcycle. Victory gives them a mechanically superior v-twin for less than Harley, and it's American made. A Victory costs $15000-$20000. It has an established company behind it, parts availability, and is becoming a recognizable name. A Motus costs twice that much, yet doesn't give you anything for the money. If it sold for $15000 instead of $40000, it might have a chance.

A v-twin cruiser is a uniquely American design, and there is a market for them. Owners lavish all kinds of attention on them, polishing and waxing and adding accessories and custom paint jobs. Sport touring bikes are just a tool to get a job done, and there are several competent ones from Japan that work just fine, and in fact are functionally superior to the Motus in every way (I mean, CHAIN DRIVE!!!? You've got to be kidding) And if Ducati and Moto Guzzi could not sell sport touring bikes at a fraction of what a Motus would cost, well, that's pretty much the final nail in their coffin. I have considered Motus to be a joke since I first heard of them, and I am confident I will soon be proven right.
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:46 PM   #1659
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You don't need to be "wealthy" to own a $30k bike. You just need to be motivated and have your priorities defined appropriately.

People who see 'value' as cost effective motorcycle transportation, will not be properly motivated.

Folks who want something unique, American made, sporty and usable in a motorcycle, would.

If I was looking for a ST as a non primary bike, this would appeal to me, for example. I'd compare it to a K1600GT and the few extra bucks this costs would not be a deal breaker. I would just save longer.

The engine does look sweet. It's light. Unique. American made.

And i dont care that a used, modified, whatever is cheaper. Not what I want.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:51 PM   #1660
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You don't need to be "wealthy" to own a $30k bike. You just need to be motivated and have your priorities defined appropriately.
Yep. I'm far from wealthy; I'm retired and living on a small pension. And I've got probably $40K worth of bikes sitting out in my garage. I use and enjoy all of 'em, all the time. I'd consider one of these, but being the cautious type, I'll wait until I see some reliable positive reviews of an actual production sample. If they look good, I'll think very hard about trading the RT for one.

I likes me toys and money be damned
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:52 PM   #1661
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Originally Posted by opmike View Post
Alright, over 1600 posts of all kind of bilge in this thread.

Is there anyone, ANYONE who is actually lining up, money in hand, to bring one of these home when one becomes available in their area? This isn't some sort of snarky challenge, I am genuinely curious.

Anyone?
I believe at least a couple of the people I saw/met when Motus had their bikes here in the Phoenix area were, yes. I do not spend that kind of money on motorcycles, but I'd REALLY love to see Motus succeed. They were very nice people (the Motus guys), the bike looks and sounds OUTSTANDING, and I hope they can make it work. I wish that they'd have been able to retain direct injection, but perhaps they can re-visit that after a couple/few model years?
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:24 PM   #1662
bross
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Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
For heaven's sake ... Ducati was and remains a byword for high per-mile running costs. Why would Motus succeed where they failed? Perhaps because the engine is designed to offer exceptionally low per-mile running costs. Handy in a bike often bought for clocking big yearly mileages.
.
I'm in for that. Between my wife and I we have four bikes in the garage, and at times have had six. Frankly I'm tired of doing valve checks and or pulling cams to adjust the valves. I'm doing minimum 2 bikes a year sometimes all four need doing. We live remote so taking bikes in is an overnight PITA, that's why I do all my own work. I don't mind wrenching on the bikes and kinda enjoy it but doing valves is a big job. Just finished my wife's Street Triple and thankfully all were in spec, just barely, so next time I'm pulling cams for sure. My Tiger will be due this coming spring.

One of my riding buddies has a VFR 800 and I have nightmares that I might be asked to help with checking the valves on that fricking thing. If you don't know what's involved, read up on it, it's bloody amazing how complicated it is.

I loved my Kawasaki Mean Streak with it's hydraulic lifters and shaft drive. Oil changes and tires, that's it.

The motor in the Motus is THE selling feature and a huge one. Would I prefer shaft drive? Sure, but modern chains are pretty bloody amazing things that last a long time. I thought my Tiger 800XC would be my ONE bike, but after a 2000 mile trip I'm thinking a sport tourer could make it's way into our garage again.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:59 AM   #1663
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I wonder what MPG would be on a 1600cc pushrod V4?

Is there a Dyno sheet on this thing yet? I'd be curious how unique the engine is by the numbers. Side by side dyno sheets with a VFR1200, ZX14 etc...
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:39 AM   #1664
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
That's $9-Million to $10.5-Million. Gross.
Will they be making money at that level?
Quit confusing us with logic and facts.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:44 AM   #1665
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Originally Posted by DannyZRC View Post
MOTUS isn't trying to make money selling 1-3,000 of them at 15k, they're trying to make money selling 300 of them at 30-35k.
No offense, but that math is probably the reason the bike is going to fail. There's a price that's too low with not enough profit, and there's a price that's too high that no one will pay, and then there's a sweet spot in the middle where you maximize your profit. The Motus is priced on the way, way, way high side, even considering what you get (exclusivity, unique motor, American made). And I think that pricing strategy sets off alarm bells for anyone who understands economics, marketing, and supply and demand.

I don't think there's a lot of hate being expressed here for the actual bike. It's just mostly shock at the poor pricing strategy.
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