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Old 10-24-2012, 08:05 AM   #1666
bross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worroll View Post
I wonder what MPG would be on a 1600cc pushrod V4?

Is there a Dyno sheet on this thing yet? I'd be curious how unique the engine is by the numbers. Side by side dyno sheets with a VFR1200, ZX14 etc...
Corvette gets pretty damn good mileage for the performance it puts out. I thought I read somewhere that the Motus is overbuilt and understressed and capable of handling a turbo etc. so I would think it would get pretty good mileage, but let's see some on the road so we can get some real numbers.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:15 AM   #1667
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corvettes also have crazy coefficient of drag that helps with MPG's(compared to other cars). Also, the motor is based on the corvette's, but what about the fuel injection? Remember cars have mass air flow sensors, which makes fueling way better than a TPS/MAP setup like a motorcycle.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:20 AM   #1668
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Originally Posted by Superzoom View Post
No offense, but that math is probably the reason the bike is going to fail. There's a price that's too low with not enough profit, and there's a price that's too high that no one will pay, and then there's a sweet spot in the middle where you maximize your profit. The Motus is priced on the way, way, way high side, even considering what you get (exclusivity, unique motor, American made). And I think that pricing strategy sets off alarm bells for anyone who understands economics, marketing, and supply and demand.

I don't think there's a lot of hate being expressed here for the actual bike. It's just mostly shock at the poor pricing strategy.
No, it sets off alarm bells for anyone who *thinks* they understand economics, marketing or supply and demand. In the real world, incipient corruption leads the government to erect massive entry barriers which serve to protect established interests.

Look at Tesla, OCC/BigDog/etc, any number of vehicle startups. They have to operate on small volume because if volume goes above a certain small number, there are lots of obligations that kick in which are waived for boutique makers.

If MOTUS wanted to make money at $15k with 3k bikes/yr, they would need to spend a lot more money on parts inventory and blahblahblah.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:05 AM   #1669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyZRC View Post
No, it sets off alarm bells for anyone who *thinks* they understand economics, marketing or supply and demand. In the real world, incipient corruption leads the government to erect massive entry barriers which serve to protect established interests.

Look at Tesla, OCC/BigDog/etc, any number of vehicle startups. They have to operate on small volume because if volume goes above a certain small number, there are lots of obligations that kick in which are waived for boutique makers.

If MOTUS wanted to make money at $15k with 3k bikes/yr, they would need to spend a lot more money on parts inventory and blahblahblah.
+1. This, too.

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Old 10-24-2012, 10:15 AM   #1670
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Originally Posted by Moronic View Post
For heaven's sake ... Ducati was and remains a byword for high per-mile running costs. Why would Motus succeed where they failed? Perhaps because the engine is designed to offer exceptionally low per-mile running costs. Handy in a bike often bought for clocking big yearly mileages.

What about Guzzi? Low per-mile running costs. Plenty of character. But maybe slow and shaft-driven and a big lean onto low 'bars wasn't what people wanted.

Have critics forgotten the claimed specs of this thing? More horsepower, only a little more weight than a Multi 1200, from a 1650cc engine with K16 torque. Features? With a feature like that, maybe you don't need lots of others.





And that is the bit many seem to be missing. The bike MIGHT be worth $30K to enough people IF it offers the performance, range, durability, easy maintenance and comfort it claims AND the motor and chassis feel engaging in the way of many a Ducati or Guzzi, and not somewhat forgettable in the way of the similarly laid out Honda ST1100 (haven't tried the 13).

Yes, I enjoyed several long trips on that Honda; but no, I doubt I would pay $30K for a 1650cc chain-driven hydraulic-valved version, even if it weighed 100 lbs less. Unless when I tried it it had that special something. Then I might (if it sold over here).
Also,the words,touring and Ducati dont go together too well,maybe the new ones hang together a little better but most people think of Ducati maintenance/reliabilty and then buy a FJR1300 or something that is more like a watch.

The Guzzi? I like those bikes but..........they had problems then,suspension not so good,slow,kinda clunky,lotsa character and neato bikes but from here to the other side of the country? Maybe not.

Motus needs to get some of their bikes out and being tested,see what they're really like.

If you cant afford 30K then theres no need commenting on the Motus,its not a cheap bike.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:52 AM   #1671
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Also,the words,touring and Ducati dont go together too well,maybe the new ones hang together a little better but most people think of Ducati maintenance/reliabilty and then buy a FJR1300 or something that is more like a watch.


The ST3 pictured belongs to an inmate here. He tours all over the Rocky Mountain West on that thing. A half dozen other riders I know own ST 2/3/4s and also ride them all over the country...

I can't imagine an FJR geek cross-shopping a MOTUS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
The Guzzi? I like those bikes but..........they had problems then,suspension not so good,slow,kinda clunky,lotsa character and neato bikes but from here to the other side of the country? Maybe not.


The black bike pictured is a 2004 Nero Corsa. Very nice Ohlins at both ends. I have put 40,000+ miles on that particular bike and have ridden it through 18 States from D.C. to Utah and from Minnesota to Louisiana.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Motus needs to get some of their bikes out and being tested,see what they're really like.
Understatement of the day, right there...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
If you cant afford 30K then theres no need commenting on the Motus,its not a cheap bike.
I can afford it. They have to convince me. So far, just like with Excelsior-Henderson, it's all talk. Very little action.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:26 PM   #1672
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I'm guessing about 35mpg. maybe even less, considering the price tag, the riders they were aiming for won't give a crap about how much is costs to full up.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:48 PM   #1673
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Ok, here goes.... It's been a few days so I've got some catching up to do.

MPG on the prototypes was in the mid 40s.

Yes, they have deposits for many bikes already with buyers waiting for delivery.

Let's put a woman's perspective on this now:

I can buy a bizillion pairs of Famous Footwear shoes. They won't be top of the line and won't have the comfort and features I want but I can have a bunch.

OR

I can walk into Bally and pick up exactly the right shoes which will serve me well for many years with exactly all of the features I want. Yes, they may cost $150+ a pair but they're what I want.


Now let's put this in terms of a motorcycle. I don't want to buy a bike for $X. Then stick the stock cheap seat in the garage after I've saved up for the custom seat. Then I have to find space for that cheap stock exhaust that didn't do diddly for me after I asked for a new one for my birthday. Oh, then for the anniversary, can I have it Dyno'd?

HELL NO! I want a freaking bike all set up and ready to ride with all of the goodies damnit!

This bike is being built for those who know what they want and price is not a determining factor.

Another good point someone brought up: Seat height. It is also a very narrow seat. I know countless women in particular who pay to have seats shaved to achieve what Motus has standard. Also, because the seat is designed to be that narrow and low to begin with you're not giving up comfort like you do when you have a seat shaved.

Finally, how many of you amateur economists actually have experience with volume, velocity, overhead???? I ran a business for about 20 years. These guys know what they're about.

Ok, I'll hush again. Y'all have fun I'm going to bed............. ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:56 PM   #1674
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Laugh

A sport touring bike designed for affluent women and short men? The market for that must be huge!










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Old 10-24-2012, 06:00 PM   #1675
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADK View Post
A sport touring bike designed for affluent women and short men? The market for that must be huge!


The $350 Lucchese boots on my feet right now, sure feel good...
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:09 PM   #1676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADK View Post
A sport touring bike designed for affluent women and short men? The market for that must be huge!










You might be surprised just how big that market really is.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:16 PM   #1677
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
You might be surprised just how big that market really is.
I've always wanted to build that bike. Ninja 250 size, C14 features.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:21 PM   #1678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloradorider View Post
I'm guessing about 35mpg. maybe even less, considering the price tag, the riders they were aiming for won't give a crap about how much is costs to full up.
We appreciate your insight.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:00 PM   #1679
jfslater98
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Sigh. Was hoping someone else caught this, but I guess it's my turn to be "that guy".



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget Girl View Post
I know countless women in particular who pay to have seats shaved
Pics, or it didn't happen.


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Old 10-24-2012, 07:17 PM   #1680
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mind

I used to buy balsa wood in the 1950s to make model aircraft. my grandmother would tell me that she never saw a person turn so much good balsa wood into scrap.
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