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Old 01-02-2013, 01:22 PM   #1861
Rick West
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Originally Posted by Dave.0 View Post
well, there is nothing wrong with givi bags, but on a bike in this price category they could have made more of a "bespoke" bag made specifically for the bike, not something you would buy off the shelf at twisted throttle and slap on your versys
Any thing that can be bolted onto a Versys or a Wee-Strom does not belong on this bike.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #1862
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I'm still not getting the business model here - are they hoping to be bought by another company? They must be an exotic brand, and if so, will I get the exotic brand experience from dealers? How many $30k bikes must they sell to break even?

It isn't really likely that they could compete at the mid-range, as the economies of scale and existing supply and manufacturing relationships the other major manufacturers have in place means Motus could never compete on price.


I'm all for them having success, but I couldn't see investing in a business like that (as an investment, not buying a bike) if I was actually worried about my returns.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:22 PM   #1863
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
I'm still not getting the business model here - are they hoping to be bought by another company? They must be an exotic brand, and if so, will I get the exotic brand experience from dealers? How many $30k bikes must they sell to break even?

It isn't really likely that they could compete at the mid-range, as the economies of scale and existing supply and manufacturing relationships the other major manufacturers have in place means Motus could never compete on price.


I'm all for them having success, but I couldn't see investing in a business like that (as an investment, not buying a bike) if I was actually worried about my returns.


Where did it say that they are looking for investors ?
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:36 PM   #1864
rocker59
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Originally Posted by Blakebird View Post
NO motorcycle manufacturer makes their own luggage - it's all farmed out to the companies like Givi, Nonfango, etc.
...and Hepco + Becker.

...and TRAX.

I'm guessing that HD probably still makes it's own bags at its fiberglass factory, alongside its fairings.

I have no idea about the Japanese. I don't keep up with them.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:39 PM   #1865
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
I'm still not getting the business model here - are they hoping to be bought by another company? They must be an exotic brand, and if so, will I get the exotic brand experience from dealers? How many $30k bikes must they sell to break even?
300 bikes in a year at an average of $34k - 2k dealer = 9.6 million dollars. Even if you cleared 5% in profit...$500k. Just spitballing some numbers, but they should be able to stay in biz if they can sell bikes.

I bought a Guzzi last year...exotic brand. I didn't feel like I was treated much different. Kinda like a Ural dealer.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:41 PM   #1866
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Where did it say that they are looking for investors ?
They had to go third party for new-bike financing, and startup capital had to come from somewhere (looks like UAB, as it happens. University incubators are sweet deals). Someone plans to make money - I'm curious how they think that will happen.

Presumably, as a company Motus must make a profit eventually. I don't see that as very likely.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:50 PM   #1867
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Originally Posted by kirb View Post
300 bikes in a year at an average of $34k - 2k dealer = 9.6 million dollars.
6% margin for the dealers? LOL!
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:53 PM   #1868
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Presumably, as a company Motus must make a profit eventually. I don't see that as very likely.
I don't either.

Motus' business model was likely based on a better economy. Problem is folks have cut back on discretionary spending, especially high dollar motorcycles. Polaris is feeling the same pinch with Indian Motorcycle Company, which they acquired in April 2011.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:30 PM   #1869
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I don't either.

Motus' business model was likely based on a better economy. Problem is folks have cut back on discretionary spending, especially high dollar motorcycles. Polaris is feeling the same pinch with Indian Motorcycle Company, which they acquired in April 2011.
Says who? Every Polaris business report claims better and better "on road" sales growth. Indian can't account for much but they are busy developing a "new" Indian (engine at least) to be released at Daytona later this year.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:49 PM   #1870
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Originally Posted by Worroll View Post
I think the point of criticism of using the Givi bags isn't that they are inferior, but they lack the image of being one-of-a-kind. They are a generic element to a bike that will rely largely on image and being a one of a kind bike to sell.
.
This is a valid point, but I don't see how they had any other option. Tooling alone for custom bags would add $thousands to the cost of this low volume bike. I think its a better option than just not offering bags.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:47 PM   #1871
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Originally Posted by Rick West View Post
Any thing that can be bolted onto a Versys or a Wee-Strom does not belong on this bike.
Hmm, bespoke tires cut from GP slicks, perhaps.
And you complain about the pricing?
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:55 PM   #1872
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Originally Posted by jmlmjmjm View Post
Says who? Every Polaris business report claims better and better "on road" sales growth. Indian can't account for much but they are busy developing a "new" Indian (engine at least) to be released at Daytona later this year.
The victory brand has bikes that range from 12,499 up to 28,999. They have plenty of options at less than half the cost of the Motus, and the distribution muscle of Polaris.

I don't think anyone would hold the recent Indian lineup up as an example of success - I can't imagine the brand could survive with the current offerings without the support of the parent company.

I'd like to think there is room for the Motus offerings in the marketplace (as well as room for an American option at a more competitive price with sport-touring machines from Yamaha, Honda, and Kawasaki, but that's because that's what -I- want), but for an independent company to release upscale boutique bikes (at upscale boutique prices) as their sole offering (okay, two of them) is risky as hell.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:38 PM   #1873
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
6% margin for the dealers? LOL!
So what...double it? That,s why it's called spit balling. There is over 1 mil to play with. How would you split it?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:51 PM   #1874
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
They had to go third party for new-bike financing, and startup capital had to come from somewhere (looks like UAB, as it happens. University incubators are sweet deals). Someone plans to make money - I'm curious how they think that will happen.

Presumably, as a company Motus must make a profit eventually. I don't see that as very likely.


What do you expect, that they'll hold the loan notes on bikes themselves? It's a little premature to be looking for Motus Financial Services.
Who does financing for Guzzi or Triumph? A bank probably, just like Motus.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:29 PM   #1875
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What do you expect, that they'll hold the loan notes on bikes themselves? It's a little premature to be looking for Motus Financial Services.
Who does financing for Guzzi or Triumph? A bank probably, just like Motus.
outside investment is outside investment. Nevermind the startup capital for development and wages for employees to get the first year's bikes out the door.


I have no clue what the margins are for Motus's bikes, and probably no one in the thread does. The bikes haven't been tested yet (and demos cost money), but when they are it doesn't seem that likely that they'll be worlds apart from the sport-touring options already out there, so they'll be pushing a superpremium product in an already small market.

There is room for superpremium in any market, especially in a nation as wealthy as the United States, but startups that offer them are taking an especially big risk.

Motus currently has 11 dealers, if we assume 300 bikes then each dealer needs to sell 27 of these bikes. A year.
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