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Old 01-23-2013, 06:43 AM   #1981
madeouttaglass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloneyskin daddy View Post
The tariff was bogus just like the recent HD bailout in PA. Greed at its finest,capitalism at its best.
Corporate welfare is the modern business plan. It's worked great for sports teams and many companies. "I'll create 500 jobs if I don't pay taxes for 15 years, the taxpayers pay to rebuild an existing building to house our factory, the taxpayers pay for 75% of the machinery, ... and if it still doesn't work out I pay the taxpayers nothing back."
If Motus figures this out they will be golden.- at least for a while.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:48 AM   #1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
They also went to the government and said they didn't need the tariffs any longer. The AMF days brought good and bad. When they got the company back they needed a little help for a time before they could compete head to head with the metric bikes on sales numbers.

It worked.

I wish the government regs were not so thick now so it would be a little easier for Motus.
You live by the sword and you die by the sword.
The government powerful enough to give you everything you want,
is powerful enough to take away everything you have.

Maybe Motus should have a backup plan.
Electric Sport Tourers that come with solar power recharger kits.
Call it the Solyndra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madeouttaglass View Post
Corporate welfare is the modern business plan. It's worked great for sports teams and many companies. "I'll create 500 jobs if I don't pay taxes for 15 years, the taxpayers pay to rebuild an existing building to house our factory, the taxpayers pay for 75% of the machinery, ... and if it still doesn't work out I pay the taxpayers nothing back."
If Motus figures this out they will be golden.- at least for a while.
Bingo.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:41 AM   #1983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worroll View Post
I wish the Japanese dumped(sold?) more bikes in the us market in the 80's, then I'd be able to find a V65 or CB1100F or CBX dirt cheap.
you can get a pretty dammed nice CB1100F for $3k.... now finding one is the hard part. I think they imported about 15k of them one year - 1983
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:54 PM   #1984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I really don't understand your aversion to the Vulcan 750......
.....Something just doesn't sound right about this whole thing,
This bike is clearly not for you.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:50 PM   #1985
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This bike is clearly for no one...
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:12 AM   #1986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post

....blah blab Vulcan 750 blah blah....

And of all things, they are talking about selling just the engines, BEFORE they have even released the bike for sale. That is completely unprecedented.

....blah blab Harley EVO blah blah....

Who woulf buy a Motus engine? What would they use it for? It's specs are for the most part unknown. Nothing is available to put it in. Something just doesn't sound right about this whole thing,
Again, research is not your strong suit, Katech is building the motor with at least three iterations, the 1.6L which Motus plans on using and two others, 2.0L and 2.4L with the latter making 350+hp/360tq (forced induction). I assume that the motor is primarily being offered for competition applications. The suppose that the requirement for making the engine EPA compliant for on road use would be up to the end user, but I could be wrong on that.

http://www.katechengines.com/engineering/katech-v4/

cheers,
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:06 AM   #1987
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That engine would look real nice in a custom chopper... or transplant it into a Vulcan.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:20 AM   #1988
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I see the Americade webpage has Motus listed as a vendor. They'll be there with a display only - no demos. Indian always has their display in the beach expo section and that's where I'd expect Motus to be also.

I'll probably go check them out. The beach expo is mostly a sea of cheap pirate gear with the quality vendors sprinkled throughout. It'll give me something else to look for besides the Twisted Throttle tent.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:25 AM   #1989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bk brkr baker View Post
Jerry H , Why don't you start your own thread about the 750 Vulcan so you and all the other Vulcan worshipers can crow about this marvolous bike that makes the sun rise and shames all the lesser imitateors , then you can go there and not worry about a start up company building something you don't see a need for.
Rest easy.
He already did http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=837877

google "JerryH Vulcan"
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:33 PM   #1990
GB
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Oh man, JerryH give it a rest... Vulcan Vs. Motus is like Peterbilt vs. Corvette.. each one is designed for a purpose and they are vastly different, so please stick to your Vulcan thread and let us go around in circles till the bike becomes available...

Still hoping to hear from an inmate who is seriously considering putting a deposit on one.

p.s. I punted your Vulcan pearls to your Vulcan thread.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:18 PM   #1991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canoehead View Post
Hmmm...you know when you make a statement like that, an engineer is gonna check it out:

Rolls Royce Merlin 61: 1580hp, 1640lb, 0.96lb/hp
Chevy LS9: 638hp, 530lbs, 0.83lb/hp
BMW S1000RR: 193hp, 132lbs, 0.68 lb/hp

Looks like the 'vette is closer to the BMW than the Merlin

Here is the ultimate piston engine from WWII (and it doesn't have any conventional poppet valves):



The sleeve valve Napier Sabre.

Napier Sabre: 3,040hp, 2,360lbs, 0.77lb/hp, barely beats the Corvette

Getting back on point, sort of: Here's the power to weight of the Katech v4.

Displacement: 1.6L (100 CID)
Power: 160bhp @6,600 rpm
Torque: 127 lb-ft @5800rpm
Redline: 7,800 rpm
Dry Weight: 140 lbs
Induction: Naturally aspirated


0.875 lbs/hp

And look at the racing version of the same engine:


Displacement: 2.0L (122 CID)
Power: 280bhp @9,500rpm
Torque: 180 ft-lbs @7,200rpm
Redline: 9,500rpm
Dry Weight: 138 lbs
Induction: Naturally Aspirated

0.49 lbs/hp

Seems a pushrod engine can do okay in that dept.

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Old 01-24-2013, 06:28 PM   #1992
pmelby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakeeater View Post
Getting back on point, sort of:



Getting back on point, sort of: Here's the power to weight of the Katech v4.

Displacement: 1.6L (100 CID)
Power: 160bhp @6,600 rpm
Torque: 127 lb-ft @5800rpm
Redline: 7,800 rpm
Dry Weight: 140 lbs
Induction: Naturally aspirated
That Napier is pretty impressive:
Quote:
Oil consumption: 47 pints/hour (27 L/hr) at maximum cruise 3,250 rpm and +7 psi (0.48 bar, 14"); 71 pints/hour (40 L/hr) at war emergency power
Those sleeve valve engined planes must have had some serious oil tankage.

What we've probably figured out here is that cams and poppet valves are probably bettern than sleeve valves, at least for oil consumption.

It will be interesting to see what the Motus V4 and transmission package actually ends up weighing. The 140lb for the powerplant sounds pretty good. If they can bring the whole package in at <200lbs, it should make for a nice machine. Is there a published weight for the prototype bikes? As a comparison, the BMW K1600 engine/transmission package has a claimed weight of about 220lbs or so, the K1600 also has to turn the power 90deg but at the trans output rather than the input.

The published weight is 530lbs wet for the prototype bikes...

I wonder if the K4 will require a harmonic balancer? I don't think that there are any balancer/dampers on the K1600 motor.

regards,
melby
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pmelby screwed with this post 01-25-2013 at 07:24 PM Reason: added comment on K4 weight
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:45 AM   #1993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmelby View Post
That Napier is pretty impressive:


Those sleeve valve engined planes must have had some serious oil tankage.

What we've probably figured out here is that cams and poppet valves are probably bettern than sleeve valves, at least for oil consumption.

It will be interesting to see what the Motus V4 and transmission package actually ends up weighing. The 140lb for the powerplant sounds pretty good. If they can bring the whole package in at <200lbs, it should make for a nice machine. Is there a published weight for the prototype bikes? As a comparison, the BMW K1600 engine/transmission package has a claimed weight of about 220lbs or so, the K1600 also has to turn the power 90deg but at the trans output rather than the input.

I wonder if the K4 will require a harmonic balancer? I don't think that there are any balancer/dampers on the K1600 motor.

regards,
melby
The best part is that Motus can offer an R version with the 2.0l engine down the road! It should drop right in.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:07 PM   #1994
pmelby
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Performance Design LLC

These folks are saying that they are working on a redesign of the V4 motor:

http://performancedesignllc.com/?page_id=69

Quote:
Performance Design is displaying at the Performance Racing Show (PRI) in Orlandon on November 29 – December 1, 2012.

Come see us in booth 3958 where we are displaying our design services offered to companies as well as our products with the Carbon XR. See some of the design work we have been into such as a complete clean sheet redesign of the Motus Motorcycles Gen 2 V4 production engine. Additionally we are displaying an intake that is mid-assembly so that you can see an open view of the runner bellmouth entrances and runner internals.
http://performancedesignllc.com/wp-c...4-Services.jpg
Sure is starting to look like a production motor.

wtf.. can one of you experts resize that image?
changed image to link...

cheers,
melby
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:17 PM   #1995
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Production Engine

Another poster on the Motus production engine with details on the throttle bodies, valve geometry and block casting.

http://performancedesignllc.com/wp-c...nal_Page_1.jpg

cheers,
melby
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