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Old 01-30-2013, 02:04 PM   #2056
Mobiker
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Originally Posted by Worroll View Post
As far as building a name, the bike is mostly built from existing high end suppliers, so in part the name recognition is already there. I'm guessing Katech, who built the engine, took care of a lot of R&D costs as they seem to be selling the motor independent of Motus, in different forms. No matter what happens with the bike, those engines will sell and cover R&D cost, small boats, dune buggys, even kit cars. The 2.4 ltr at 350 HP would be a monster in a small car, I can just imagine that bolted into my little BMW 318 hatchback.... or fitted into a old fiero....
Or something like an Aerial Atom

http://www.arielatom.com/
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:03 PM   #2057
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Originally Posted by Mobiker View Post
Or something like an Aerial Atom

http://www.arielatom.com/
Or an M1 Miata!
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:24 PM   #2058
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Or an M1 Miata!
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:51 PM   #2059
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
It would beat the hell out of the 5.0 conversions!

The MOTUS engine is lighter than the Miata 4-banger, so handling wouldn't suffer.

A 350bhp, 2000lbs sportscar would be great fun!

Heck, I had fun in my M1 with not much more than 100bhp!
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:40 PM   #2060
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
It would beat the hell out of the 5.0 conversions!

The MOTUS engine is lighter than the Miata 4-banger, so handling wouldn't suffer.

A 350bhp, 2000lbs sportscar would be great fun!

Heck, I had fun in my M1 with not much more than 100bhp!
The Miata 4 cyl is actually a heavy engine. Most links I've read put it at about 290 Lbs complete with manifolds (engine only, not including transmission). The Katech with 350 HP and reduced weight would be awesome!
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:47 PM   #2061
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He is a self proclaimed Gold Wing Guru. Now I know where to go for advice on one of my projects.
Hey, it may not be so bad. If you ever needed advice on a center stand or which tubeless tires to use, he'd be your man with the plan.


To keep things on topic:


If I was rich I'd buy one of these MOTUS Motorcycles in a heart beat and give the ADV Salute to all of the haters. It's a sexy motorcycle. I really dig the V-4 they've designed for it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:58 PM   #2062
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Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
This is what I'm saying. Building a new bike AND a new engine is a very expensive endeavor. I would like to know how start up companies even get funding for these sorts of efforts. This is just like the countless new sports car companies that pop up every couple of years. They come and go like downtown night clubs. Selling a premium product requires a premium name. Think of premium brand names like Rolex, TAG Heuer, Gucci, Versace, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Ducati, Harley, etc. Those companies didn't just pop up 5 years ago. Those companies worked long and hard to get to where they are. You think you're just gonna walk into that market all Johnny-come-lately and get a piece of the pie? Come on now.

What they need to do is start with building a cheaper, much more basic bike, maybe race the thing, get some customers, build some rep, figure out how to turn a profit, then start coming out with wild $30k, 1200cc, Ohlins equipped bikes. Not to mention they're designing a bike for a dying market. Sport touring sales are currently one of the worst performing segments. They could work the niche angle, but with that price you have to wonder just how bad do sport touring guys need to scratch the itch?

As JerryH stated, even Erik Buell has a name and a customer base. Plus he markets his brand through his racing program, which is already established as well. The race bike and program support money he's making alone might be enough to keep the doors open. So as far as I'm concerned he's already miles ahead of Motus plus he's not spending money on R&D for building completely new engines.

Much like Buell the dirt bike companies like ATK and Husaberg all had racing programs which in turn generates revenue and builds reputation.


If you still don't see my point just look through the product history of all the motorcycle companies that are standing today. Did any of them start out selling bikes like this?



TL;DR If Motus was selling penny stocks I still would not buy.


I can't think of any racing program making money at the start, companies like Ferrari only sold road cars to finance their racing.

You should share your theories with Pagani, Koennigsegg, and a few Of the other idiots .


Seeing as you can manage to side with Single-carb Jerry I really have to wonder,,,,
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:05 PM   #2063
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
I can't think of any racing program making money at the start, companies like Ferrari only sold road cars to finance their racing.

You should share your theories with Pagani, Koennigsegg, and a few Of the other idiots .


Seeing as you can manage to side with Single-carb Jerry I really have to wonder,,,,

I'm not talking about owning a profitable race team. I'm talking about selling race machines to other teams and running a support network for profit. Which is something both Pagani and Koennigsegg do. They make profit off the race cars and while doing so they're using the race track to market their brand by building reputation and brand recognition. The marketing alone is the reason why just about every car and bike manufacture participates in motor sports.

All that aside the car market is way bigger than motorcycles. In the US registered motorcycles don't even make up 3% of vehicles on the road. Yes car's cost much more money to build, but your selling on a market that's almost 100% larger therefore increasing your chance of success by that much.

I really don't care what the people on this forum think of this Jerry character, I simply quoted him because as a consumer he brings to light a few legitimate concerns.

For one dealer support. Lack of which is reason why some customers will stray away from brands like Moto Guzzi and MV Agusta. These are already well established brands with a good customer following and a proven product, but some people don't want to take there bike 200 miles to get it serviced. This affects sales. Now you want to sell a bike with no proven reliability with an even more dismal support network.

He states that Buell has history and heritage. This is certainly true, his brand name is now already 30 years old and his name is known from being involved in racing long before establishing his business. A motorcycle racer and engineer starts selling bikes using his own name. I'd say that's a solid marketing strategy for a start up company in this market.

Then he mentions resale value. You think such a thing is not important to consumers? Have you never heard or seen an add from Toyota or Honda mentioning this? Just think where this bike is priced. Who's target customer base is this going after? Who's out there selling $20k to $35K motorcycles right now? Harley Davidson is one of them, and what do we know about their product? They have some of if not the best resale value in the motorcycle market place. The other is BMW, another company with a fiercely loyal customer base. So what I see is that Motus is tasked with trying to take the high dollar bike customer away from Harley Davidson and BMW. Both 100 year old household name companies selling well proven products one of which has outstanding resale values. Not to mention they're going after them in the dying sport touring market segment.

All this skepticism is brought about by the fact that success in this market has historically proven to be quite difficult so forgive me if I sound negative about all this. It's not my intention to sound like an armchair naysayer. I do believe in having hopes and dreams. History has proven that it is by no means impossible for a company to rise from nothing and compete with established greats. If enough smarts and hard work are applied a group of good business men can achieve the impossible. However it does need to be done with a sensible approach, which I don't believe Motus is doing. I could be wrong, maybe their investors know something I do not, but I myself am not convinced.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:28 PM   #2064
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Quote:
I'm not talking about owning a profitable race team. I'm talking about selling race machines to other teams and running a support network for profit. Which is something both Pagani and Koennigsegg do. They make profit off the race cars and while doing so they're using the race track to market their brand by building reputation and brand recognition. The marketing alone is the reason why just about every car and bike manufacture participates in motor sports.
Can you provide a link showing Koenigsegg and Pagani providing race cars to teams? I have never heard that and it is not mentioned on their respective websites. They both seem to do most of their marketing on Top Gear.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:03 PM   #2065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
For one dealer support. Lack of which is reason why some customers will stray away from brands like Moto Guzzi and MV Agusta. These are already well established brands with a good customer following and a proven product, but some people don't want to take there bike 200 miles to get it serviced. This affects sales. Now you want to sell a bike with no proven reliability with an even more dismal support network.

Then he mentions resale value. You think such a thing is not important to consumers?
All of the arguments you make miss the point completely. Same with JerryH, who tries to adapt his marketing / consumer reasoning to the Motus, when they are applicable to the bargain UJM's he favors.

Motus aren't trying to market this bike to the masses. If it has great appeal and they have to build more - great. They are fully and completely aware of the road ahead, and are making it happen on a deliberate schedule that doesn't rush headlong into trouble.

It's a niche market and they know it. The quantities they plan on building in the immediate future are not huge. I've owned three Guzzis, and have been fortunate to have dealers nearby. I would have bought one if I had to travel a bit to get support....many people won't buy a bike if there's not a nationwide network to give them a warm fuzzy.

Many people will, and for some the exclusivity and all that goes with it are not negatives - they're positives.

there...that should be what - about the zillionth counterpoint in this thread?
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:02 PM   #2066
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All of the arguments you make miss the point completely.

It's a niche market and they know it. The quantities they plan on building in the immediate future are not huge.

I've owned three Guzzis, and have been fortunate to have dealers nearby. I would have bought one if I had to travel a bit to get support....

many people won't buy a bike if there's not a nationwide network to give them a warm fuzzy.

Many people will, and for some the exclusivity and all that goes with it are not negatives - they're positives.
Being a Guzzi rider, I completely understand the build/sell a few hundred motorcycles plan that MOTUS seems to have.

There are people out there who are willing to have something different, and those people are willing to take on the added effort to own the motorcycle.

The closest Guzzi dealer to me is 120 miles distant. None of my Guzzis have ever been there for service.

"Needing a dealer" doesn't compute with me, though I know many people "need" to have a dealer within a half hour drive or they won't own that machine.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:31 PM   #2067
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Originally Posted by Blakebird View Post
All of the arguments you make miss the point completely. Same with JerryH, who tries to adapt his marketing / consumer reasoning to the Motus, when they are applicable to the bargain UJM's he favors.

Motus aren't trying to market this bike to the masses. If it has great appeal and they have to build more - great. They are fully and completely aware of the road ahead, and are making it happen on a deliberate schedule that doesn't rush headlong into trouble.

It's a niche market and they know it. The quantities they plan on building in the immediate future are not huge. I've owned three Guzzis, and have been fortunate to have dealers nearby. I would have bought one if I had to travel a bit to get support....many people won't buy a bike if there's not a nationwide network to give them a warm fuzzy.

Many people will, and for some the exclusivity and all that goes with it are not negatives - they're positives.

there...that should be what - about the zillionth counterpoint in this thread?
Miss the point? This is a business we're talking about, marketing and consumers are the point. Some of you lose touch with reality and think that you can just open up a bike factory with your friends then have fun playing around making neat looking bikes and all will be well. That's not the case people. It cost money to run a show like this so you have to make money somehow otherwise you'll lose everything that's invested and have to answer to some very angry people. Just think about making that phone call...

This is the real world and in it business is hard work. Opening a new company is a huge gamble with a very high failure rate. Especially when your selling expensive toys that people don't need in a very small market.

Then you all say "People will buy them" but none of those people will be you. You just hope people buy one so that you can chew their ear when they stop at gas station with it. How many countless threads are on this forum with people talking up some new bike and how great it will be and then nobody actually buys one. I bet I can find a Norton thread on here were not a single poster has his name on the waiting list. That's because it's easy for people to talk big but when it come's to risking their own money on an unproven product the takers are few if any.

You really want to prove your confidence in Motus then I invite you to take a risk with them. Call them up and write them an investment check. Put a deposit down on for this new bike. Show them you believe in their efforts with more than just talk. Go ahead and put some wind in the sails of this new company.

But until then your verbal support will have no more merit than any piece of typical bar stool banter I've heard over the years.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:03 PM   #2068
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Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
Go ahead and put some wind in the sails of this new company.
I don't believe they need my help, buyers are out there.

you'll never get it.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:42 AM   #2069
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I can only imagine what the Motus would be like based on my own experience owning and riding motorcycles. What I see from the specs is a machine that has the power/torque of the BMW K1600 but weighs ~200lbs less and with a much shorter wheelbase. The weight & dimensions of the Motus are pretty close to my current ride which is a Multistrada1200. The Mutly has ~135Hp/85Tq and is an absolute joy to ride, I can hardly imagine what that bike would be like with 160Hp/130tq available at a more relaxed rpm. The multi I own has the selectable power modes and traction control but no ABS or active suspension. I wouldn't miss the power modes and I don't feel that lack of ABS is a show stopper either.

A low production, hand-built exotic, with an American style motor, what's not to like. I could see myself on one, even at $30k. I would certainly consider it if and when I decide to pull the trigger on a new touring bike, I hope it will be available so that I have the choice.

cheers,
melby
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:52 AM   #2070
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The weight & dimensions of the Motus are pretty close to my current ride which is a Multistrada1200.
motus really low 400 lbs dry ? if so that is impressive

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