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Old 10-14-2013, 03:17 PM   #2836
X1Glider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croak View Post
Give me a lightweight, efficient, cost-effective, tunable, fully user-serviceable, easily replaceable and reliable final drive. Which, of course, is a chain.
What makes you think a chain is more reliable? Been lots of times over the years where I've seen broken chains. Even this year. Sometimes from excesive wear, sometimes from wheel misalignment and sometimes from a stone. It does happen. Thing is, no one really gets on the broken chain band wagon on the net.

Lighter? Maybe yes, maybe no. When you consider that the shaft casting is the swingarm and the shaft itself is thin but hollow, it is about the same weight as a regular swingarm and heavy chain. The sprockets likely win out on being lighter than bevel gears.

Cost effective, if you've been as luck as me, my shafties (R1100GS and R1100S) had 300,000 miles them with no problems. Just changed final drive fluid every 10,000 miles and checked the crown for free play when swapping tires. Chains and sprockets add up over a bike's life.

Efficiency? Chains beat shafts. Belts beat chains. Just had to get that in.

Really, the only thing a chain has going for it is easy to alter gear ratios. The only time I've done that is on my race bikes, not my street bikes because there was nothing to gain from it but top end or more launch depending on which way you go. Wasn't necessary, so I never bothered. The OEMs got the gearing right for the street with no need for intervention on my part.

As power transmission components, chains have had their day for anything other than racing (or stunting, if you're into that). Points are gone, carbs are mostly gone, time for chains to be gone...
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:27 PM   #2837
k-moe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croak View Post
... handling-affecting panacea ...
Not when built correctly. Try a Yamaha Maxim, or Seca....most riders can't tell that they are shaft driven without looking.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:20 PM   #2838
joexr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-moe View Post
Not when built correctly. Try a Yamaha Maxim, or Seca....most riders can't tell that they are shaft driven without looking.
There was no special design to the Yamaha shafties. Now BMW is a whole other story.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:01 PM   #2839
BlueSkyGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X1Glider View Post
What makes you think a chain is more reliable? Been lots of times over the years where I've seen broken chains. Even this year. Sometimes from excesive wear, sometimes from wheel misalignment and sometimes from a stone. It does happen. Thing is, no one really gets on the broken chain band wagon on the net.

Lighter? Maybe yes, maybe no. When you consider that the shaft casting is the swingarm and the shaft itself is thin but hollow, it is about the same weight as a regular swingarm and heavy chain. The sprockets likely win out on being lighter than bevel gears.

Cost effective, if you've been as luck as me, my shafties (R1100GS and R1100S) had 300,000 miles them with no problems. Just changed final drive fluid every 10,000 miles and checked the crown for free play when swapping tires. Chains and sprockets add up over a bike's life.

Efficiency? Chains beat shafts. Belts beat chains. Just had to get that in.

Really, the only thing a chain has going for it is easy to alter gear ratios. The only time I've done that is on my race bikes, not my street bikes because there was nothing to gain from it but top end or more launch depending on which way you go. Wasn't necessary, so I never bothered. The OEMs got the gearing right for the street with no need for intervention on my part.

As power transmission components, chains have had their day for anything other than racing (or stunting, if you're into that). Points are gone, carbs are mostly gone, time for chains to be gone...
I have to agree anything can fail and will. I had a chain last 55000 miles and it was the front sprocket that wore the most the chain was still tight. MOTUS I hope does well but its unlikely.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:01 PM   #2840
k-moe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
There was no special design to the Yamaha shafties. Now BMW is a whole other story.
Nothing special at all; just no "jacking" at the rear...ever. No funky parallel linkage needed. Sometimes simple is better
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:26 PM   #2841
joexr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-moe View Post
Nothing special at all; just no "jacking" at the rear...ever. No funky parallel linkage needed. Sometimes simple is better
Those old POS's you were talking about only had about 2'' of suspension , if that's what you'd call it.Little room for movement OR improvement.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:42 AM   #2842
GI_JO_NATHAN
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Why does it always come back to this!!!

While we're on the subject..
ohgood, did anyone ask them about it while you were there?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POLLOCK28 (XDTALK.com)
From what I understand from frequenting various forums you are handling this critisim completely wrong. You are supposed to get bent out of shape and start turning towards personal attacks. Get with the program!
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:09 PM   #2843
kirb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GI_JO_NATHAN View Post
did anyone ask them about it while you were there?
You can't hide behind a keyboard when standing ~right~ there!
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:23 PM   #2844
ohgood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GI_JO_NATHAN View Post
Why does it always come back to this!!!

While we're on the subject..
ohgood, did anyone ask them about it while you were there?
About, what? (Sorry, really not sure)
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:26 PM   #2845
GI_JO_NATHAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
About, what? (Sorry, really not sure)
lol
Why the use of chain vs shaft.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
Someone quote me so he can see my response
Quote:
Originally Posted by POLLOCK28 (XDTALK.com)
From what I understand from frequenting various forums you are handling this critisim completely wrong. You are supposed to get bent out of shape and start turning towards personal attacks. Get with the program!
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:16 PM   #2846
ohgood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GI_JO_NATHAN View Post
lol
Why the use of chain vs shaft.
Oh, that was asked...

Something about " we built this bike for the rider to enjoy at speeds from 20 to 90 mph" which I didn't understand as being an answer so much as side stepping an answer.

Maybe you guys are smarter, you know, I'm in Alabama and all
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:24 PM   #2847
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GI_JO_NATHAN View Post
lol
Why the use of chain vs shaft.
Had to be cost related.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:22 PM   #2848
ohgood
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Had to be cost related.
I doubt it was cost, hell it's a $40,000 bike, more than likely engineering related.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #2849
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
I doubt it was cost, hell it's a $40,000 bike, more than likely engineering related.
How much does it cost to develop and test a drive shaft and bevel box?

How much does it cost to have a vendor make your proprietary drive shaft and bevel box components. Gears aren't cheap.

If it's being pro-rated over a few hundred bikes, seems like it would be expensive.

They dropped the fancy fuel injection due to cost.

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Old 10-15-2013, 03:39 PM   #2850
ohgood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
How much does it cost to develop and test a drive shaft and bevel box?

How much does it cost to have a vendor make your proprietary drive shaft and bevel box components. Gears aren't cheap.

If it's being pro-rated over a few hundred bikes, seems like it would be expensive.

They dropped the fancy fuel injection due to cost.

Sorry, my sarcasm and negativity was lost in the types words.

I was saying I don't think they have the right engineers on contract ( farmed out) for that, yet.
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