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Old 10-15-2013, 04:32 PM   #2851
markjenn
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Motus is doing what they need to do to get a product out of prototype and into production. Dropping capital intensive and high development risk stuff like shaft drive and DI are good moves as I don't think they're deal breakers to the folks interested in this bike.

Whether they've been draconian enough about feature cutting to get the bike shipped fast enough remains to be seen. I suspect they're on the ragged edge right now, hoping they get enough bikes on the road to attract new financing before the money runs dry. Me thinks things may be pretty tense these days in the hallways around the CFO's office.

- Mark
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:10 AM   #2852
RedRocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-moe View Post
Not when built correctly. Try a Yamaha Maxim, or Seca....most riders can't tell that they are shaft driven without looking.


Sorry, my brother's 650 Seca had lots of shaft-jacking.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:17 PM   #2853
k-moe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Sorry, my brother's 650 Seca had lots of shaft-jacking.
"On the street the shaft drive doesn't draw attention to itself, something Yamaha engineers have worked long and hard to achieve. The effectiveness of Yamaha's efforts to eliminate rear-end rise and fall (depending upon whether the throttle is opened or closed) with the shaft drive was driven home when one test rider caught himself thinking—as he rode into a rainstorm—that he should have oiled the drive chain that morning. What the shaft drive does, and a big reason shaft drive is popular with riders, is eliminate drive train maintenance except for longinterval replacement of bevel gearbox oil."
- Cycle World June 1981

Maybe your brother's rear shocks are worn?

Maybe I'm just so used to it that I don't notice what little shaft-jacking there is anymore.

k-moe screwed with this post 10-17-2013 at 07:55 PM
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:17 PM   #2854
mwood7800
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Don't think I ever saw a shaft bike at the races or drags
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:35 PM   #2855
bk brkr baker
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Not sure what the class was called, something like Pro-Stock Lite or Jr. It was for 750cc 4s, a Seca 750 won it a couple of years straight.
A friend had a Seca 750 and ran E.T. on it. He called me to see if I could fix it after he twisted the driveshft in two. I was able to get the old one out and put it back together with the new shaft. The shaft was only about 3/4 in . in diameter.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:52 PM   #2856
RedRocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-moe View Post
"On the street the shaft drive doesn't draw attention to itself, something Yamaha engineers have worked long and hard to achieve. The effectiveness of Yamaha's efforts to eliminate rear-end rise and fall (depending upon whether the throttle is opened or closed) with the shaft drive was driven home when one test rider caught himself thinking—as he rode into a rainstorm—that he should have oiled the drive chain that morning. What the shaft drive does, and a big reason shaft drive is popular with riders, is eliminate drive train maintenance except for longinterval replacement of bevel gearbox oil."
- Cycle World June 1981

Maybe your brother's rear shocks are worn?

Maybe I'm just so used to it that I don't notice what little shaft-jacking there is anymore.

That was early in its life, not recently.
As for you, you're probably just used to it.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:45 PM   #2857
Dilligaf0220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwood7800 View Post
Don't think I ever saw a shaft bike at the races or drags


Yeah, that's the #1 plate it's wearing, in an AMA national pro series.
Some great racing history there.

http://www.mgcn.nl/html/drjohns.htm

Read a great book on Guzzi's a few years ago with a chapter on Dr. J, he had a lot more involvement with the factory than I thought. Can't imagine Honda or Ducati opening their doors to a privateer and saying "Yup you're doing it better than we can, come tell us what we are doing wrong and let's go kick some ass".
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:54 AM   #2858
JerryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwood7800 View Post
Don't think I ever saw a shaft bike at the races or drags

The Yamaha V-Max is shaft drive. Both the old one and the new one. I've seen plenty of them at the track. Nothing wrong with a shaft, and I have never experienced this "jacking" that everybody complains about. But a shaft drive is hardly low maintenance. It can go 10,000 miles without being touched, and is impervious to rain. But every 10,000 miles or so, on most shaft drive bikes, the whole rear end has to be torn apart to maintain the drive shaft. There is a lot more to it than just changing the final drive oil.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:03 AM   #2859
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The Yamaha V-Max is shaft drive. Both the old one and the new one. I've seen plenty of them at the track. Nothing wrong with a shaft, and I have never experienced this "jacking" that everybody complains about. But a shaft drive is hardly low maintenance. It can go 10,000 miles without being touched, and is impervious to rain. But every 10,000 miles or so, on most shaft drive bikes, the whole rear end has to be torn apart to maintain the drive shaft. There is a lot more to it than just changing the final drive oil.


You're a fucking riot!

In over 100,000 miles on Guzzis, all I've ever done with my bevel boxes is change the Mobil-1 75w-90 every 5,000 miles and grease the U-joints when I remember to. No leaks. No failures. No problems.
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Old 10-18-2013, 04:47 AM   #2860
kirb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The Yamaha V-Max is shaft drive. Both the old one and the new one. I've seen plenty of them at the track. Nothing wrong with a shaft, and I have never experienced this "jacking" that everybody complains about. But a shaft drive is hardly low maintenance. It can go 10,000 miles without being touched, and is impervious to rain. But every 10,000 miles or so, on most shaft drive bikes, the whole rear end has to be torn apart to maintain the drive shaft. There is a lot more to it than just changing the final drive oil.
You're doing it wrong.
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:08 AM   #2861
Ed-B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Sorry, my brother's 650 Seca had lots of shaft-jacking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-moe View Post
"On the street the shaft drive doesn't draw attention to itself, something Yamaha engineers have worked long and hard to achieve. The effectiveness of Yamaha's efforts to eliminate rear-end rise and fall (depending upon whether the throttle is opened or closed) with the shaft drive was driven home when one test rider caught himself thinking—as he rode into a rainstorm—that he should have oiled the drive chain that morning. What the shaft drive does, and a big reason shaft drive is popular with riders, is eliminate drive train maintenance except for longinterval replacement of bevel gearbox oil."
- Cycle World June 1981

Maybe your brother's rear shocks are worn?

Maybe I'm just so used to it that I don't notice what little shaft-jacking there is anymore.
I had both Seca 650 and Seca 750 models. I bought them new, and I liked them, but they both had very noticeable shaft jacking from day 1. You had to be smooth and careful not to let off the gas abruptly if you came into a corner hot and leaned over - the handling would change and shit would start to drag when the bike settled back down off the drive shaft.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:07 PM   #2862
BlueSkyGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Sorry, my brother's 650 Seca had lots of shaft-jacking.
The older motorcycles with shaft did just that, heavier motorcycles suffered less from that effect. Newer motorcycles have much better suspension control and stiffer frames. Small trade off in light of chain lubrication with out a center stand or a failed belt. That being said any final drive not maintained will suffer a failure at some point, but I think shaft is likely the best over all for ease of care.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:11 PM   #2863
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serioue

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The Yamaha V-Max is shaft drive. Both the old one and the new one. I've seen plenty of them at the track. Nothing wrong with a shaft, and I have never experienced this "jacking" that everybody complains about. But a shaft drive is hardly low maintenance. It can go 10,000 miles without being touched, and is impervious to rain. But every 10,000 miles or so, on most shaft drive bikes, the whole rear end has to be torn apart to maintain the drive shaft. There is a lot more to it than just changing the final drive oil.

Drag racers likely convert the MAX to chain final for quick repair and gearing selection. Shaft for the street requires fluid changes, and spline lube (which is done at tire change time)otherwise that's it.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:30 PM   #2864
JerryH
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On MOST shaft drive bikes, including mine, the drive shaft splines (on the shaft itself, not the ones that mesh with the rear wheel) do not receive any lubrication from the engine or final drive oil. I have heard of some with grease fittings, but have never seen one. You do have to disassemble the whole rear end to lube these splines. And my owners manual says to do it every 10,000 miles. My tires last nearly twice that long. That may be the cause of most of the BMW final drive failures. Lack of proper maintenance. The one shaft drive bike I know of where it is fairly easy is the Yamaha V-Star with it's exposed shaft. You don't have to remove the entire swing arm to get to it.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:36 PM   #2865
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Jerry, if you're getting 20k miles out of a rear tire, you're not riding, you're just rolling. :)
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