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Old 11-18-2013, 03:28 PM   #2986
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
BTW, is the 300/yr number something Motus has said is the target? If so, I'd think it must be first year only. I doubt you can run a mfg business like Motus on gross revenues of less than $10M/year. Motus looks like a $100M minimum-to-be-viable business to me, although perhaps they have additional sources of revenue from licensing deals, IP, etc.

- Mark
You're not counting "Crate Engine" sales to the cart and auto racing community.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:16 PM   #2987
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
In what country? USA is right at to 314 MILLION people these days...
There's only something like 120 million TAXPAYERS however....

That said, I'm pretty sure I could sell 300 kickass, high end, pushrod, American made V4 powered sport touring bikes per year - without breaking a sweat.

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Old 11-18-2013, 06:33 PM   #2988
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Originally Posted by KMC1 View Post
kickass, high end, pushrod, American made V4 powered sport touring bikes
Who makes these?
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:43 PM   #2989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMC1 View Post
There's only something like 120 million TAXPAYERS however....

That said, I'm pretty sure I could sell 300 kickass, high end, pushrod, American made V4 powered sport touring bikes per year - without breaking a sweat.

A lot of the 300 million are children and the elderly, so yeah... 120 mil. taxpayers sounds about right. Of course WTF has that got to do with anything? It's how many RIDERS are out there that matters... scratch that: how many riders that can afford to throw down $35K on a bike, and of course then there is the little detail of making a product that those people actually want to buy... small nitpicks.

I think that 300 for the first year for Motus is an ambitious goal given their price point, not impossible but not easy like some people here seem to assume - at half the price I venture they would have easily sold twice as many, but at the end WTF do I know?
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:50 PM   #2990
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Originally Posted by vicster View Post
Yes, IMHO.
Take the number of bikes sold in the U.S. every year and subtract all the bikes sold that weren't sport tourers. Now narrow that down to the number of sport tourer buyers who have the disposable income needed to buy this bike. Narrow that number down to how many have even seen or heard of the bike, a number made smaller by how few dealers there will be outside major markets. Eliminate the potential customers who don't feel the value is there or don't like the bike, or the dealer, for whatever reason. Now try to do the same thing next year.
I'm not saying it can't be done, just that IMO they have a very hard row to hoe. I hope they succeed. I've seen and really like the bike, but I'm only a potential customer at $16 to $18K, and only if the reliability reviews have been good and I like it after a test ride.
there are alot of wealthy individuals who ride motorcycles in this country.
it's a free-time sport not a commuting/travel necessity. 35K is a cheap beater car to them but in motorcycle form it becomes a pinnacle & rare bike. do not forget a certain number will be shipped elsewhere in the world even if nothing else but pure collectors.

they will sell 300 easy enough. when you sell something at the top of the market people find you!
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eakins screwed with this post 11-18-2013 at 09:00 PM
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:53 PM   #2991
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Originally Posted by apessino View Post
A lot of the 300 million are children and the elderly, so yeah... 120 mil. taxpayers sounds about right. Of course WTF has that got to do with anything? It's how many RIDERS are out there that matters... scratch that: how many riders that can afford to throw down $35K on a bike, and of course then there is the little detail of making a product that those people actually want to buy... small nitpicks.

I think that 300 for the first year for Motus is an ambitious goal given their price point, not impossible but not easy like some people here seem to assume - at half the price I venture they would have easily sold twice as many, but at the end WTF do I know?
there are many average guys out there who could say I want one. oh hell yes. the payment is the same as my truck OR i sell 5 bikes from the collection and pay for it.

these days 35K is just a higher end decent car and a cheaper option truck.
it's an obtainable dream for the average guy, to own a rare and high-end bike.
it's not possible in the car world as we're talking 200K plus.
many bmw & euro bike collectors easily have 35k in bikes in their garage.
you get that right?

look in your garage! what is that collection worth?
you could be buyer #1
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eakins screwed with this post 11-18-2013 at 09:01 PM
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:08 PM   #2992
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Originally Posted by eakins View Post
there are many average guys out there who could say I want one. oh hell yes. the payment is the same as my truck OR i sell 5 bikes from the collection and pay for it.

these days 35K is just a higher end decent car and a cheaper option truck.
it's an obtainable dream for the average guy, to own a rare and high-end bike.
it's not possible in the car world as we're talking 200K plus.
many bmw & euro bike collectors easily have 35k in bikes in their garage.
you get that right?

look in your garage! what is that collection worth?
you could be buyer #1
I don't think limited or miniscule production numbers equates to RARE , nor overpriced equating to HIGH-END. Much like Harley with their limited (indirect comparison) production numbers and bloated pricing.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:11 PM   #2993
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
I don't think limited or miniscule production numbers equates to RARE , nor overpriced equating to HIGH-END. Much like Harley with their limited (indirect comparison) production numbers and bloated pricing.
pull up on a new Motus and you'll be THE only guy with one and possibly the only one you see ever.
pull up on any Harley and there are 5 more.

the bike is built very well with top-shelf parts all around.
what is high-end to you?

if it's so average to you then you of course me easily be buying one.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:28 PM   #2994
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There are a LOT of better bikes out there , V-four and otherwise. I've had Italian and I've had German , they had some pluses , but more minuses. Owning Euro's was a big pain in the ass , trust me. Motus will be similar. Shitty dealer networks and part availability. The whole Motus thing is just an eminence front (to quote the Who). Buyers WILL see. The rest , dream on. I don't want them to fail. I really don't give a damn.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:52 PM   #2995
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
You're not counting "Crate Engine" sales to the cart and auto racing community.
True, but from all reports, the engine development was farmed out to a third-party (Pratt and Miller), so I would suspect their "cut" on these engine sales to be pretty small.

- Mark
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:48 AM   #2996
rocker59
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Originally Posted by eakins View Post
pull up on a new Motus and you'll be THE only guy with one and possibly the only one you see ever.
pull up on any Harley and there are 5 more.

the bike is built very well with top-shelf parts all around.
what is high-end to you?

if it's so average to you then you of course me easily be buying one.
Pulling up on a "Motus" anywhere will be worse than pulling up on a Moto Guzzi sportsbike. No one will know what it is, or who makes it.

And that is what makes a status symbol. It has to have a name that people recognize, and be a brand people want/envy.

Motus does not have that, and will not have that, with well-heeled buyers. HD can sell $30,000 CVO all day long because they have a name that everyone recognizes and many people desire. Ducati has done a good job at developing thier name in much the same way over the past dozen years.

Beyond HD and Ducati, motorcycles are just motorcycles to the average person on the streets. They're not status symbols or objects of desire.
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Old 11-19-2013, 05:00 AM   #2997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
pull up on a new Motus and you'll be THE only guy with one and possibly the only one you see ever.
pull up on any Harley and there are 5 more.

the bike is built very well with top-shelf parts all around.
what is high-end to you?
Cruise control, fuel injection, and shaft drive is pretty high end to me. Sweet, smooth great changes ( usually Honda) is pretty high end too. Those funky on the fly adjustable wind screens on fjr's are neat. Led headlights that dry the world on fire, yep definitely high end.

Push roof v8, v4, v2 ? That just make me think "potato".

As far as exclusive, it's a good laugh from people that don't care.
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Old 11-19-2013, 05:56 AM   #2998
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Pushrod potato.......

......you folks have to get over the idea that pushrods are "bad" and overhead cams are "good".

Overhead cams make for a much taller and wider "V" engine. Pushrods allow the engine to be much more compact.

The GM LS series of engines are world class. This Motus "Baby Block" is a beautiful bit of engineering and a a great motorcycle engine.

I do not understand all this venom in general for the Motus and the lack of understanding of WHY you WANT a chain drive and a pushrod engine just illustrates the notion that folks either "Get it" or they don't and that the folks who will buy and ride the Motus will be smiling all the way home while the haters will just keep on hating.

Go for a ride and quit worrying about what other folks want to "waste" their money on. You guys need to kiss a girl or something.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:08 AM   #2999
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Originally Posted by 10/10ths View Post
Go for a ride and quit worrying about what other folks want to "waste" their money on.


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Old 11-19-2013, 06:30 AM   #3000
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Originally Posted by 10/10ths View Post
I do not understand all this venom in general for the Motus and the lack of understanding of WHY you WANT a chain drive and a pushrod engine just illustrates the notion that folks either "Get it" or they don't and that the folks who will buy and ride the Motus will be smiling all the way home while the haters will just keep on hating.

Go for a ride and quit worrying about what other folks want to "waste" their money on. You guys need to kiss a girl or something.
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