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Old 08-04-2011, 11:32 AM   #526
SomethingClever
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Wow, finally clicked on this thread today and I like what I see.

Of course, I'm not in the market for another bike, much less one that will likely cost $25k, but this thing looks pretty sweet to me.

I'd take the R model, naked please!

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Old 08-04-2011, 01:29 PM   #527
Dranrab Luap
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I hate to say it, but a 20K+ price will kill this bike before it ever launches. Not enough people will shell out 20K for an unproven bike with a very limited dealer network in this economy. I'd love to be proven wrong.
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:39 PM   #528
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In an interview Lee Conn said he never expects to be a mass market bike company. I believe they are shooting for sales in the 300 or so range initially. I think they can find 300 people to buy one.
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:40 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
I hate to say it, but a 20K+ price will kill this bike before it ever launches. Not enough people will shell out 20K for an unproven bike with a very limited dealer network in this economy. I'd love to be proven wrong.
You're wrong, it's in the $10K range, honest.



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Old 08-04-2011, 02:48 PM   #530
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With regard to manufacturing costs etc. I was listening closely to the Motus guys. It appears that they are going to contract the manufacture of the frames. The engine is being produced by another firm (Katech?) the forks are Ohlins, shock is Pensky/Ohlins, wheels Marchessini/OZ, brakes Brembo, seat Sargent, fuel tank Elka etc. They are not really manufacturing anything.

I figure they are going to have a small warehouse in Birmingham to assemble the parts from the various supplers into a bike. They should have very little capital tied up in the assembly operation.

You can get a rough idea of the price if you add up all the parts from the supplers. Ohlins forks - $1,500, Shock - $750, Seat - $350, etc. The unknown cost is the engine and frame. Food for thought.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:21 PM   #531
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Chain, sprockets, switchgear,radiator,hoses, brakes,body work, lights, wiring,handlebars,etc,etc....the list is long.

I was at Mid-Ohio when Cannondale was selling off hundreds of shocks and forks "Ohlins" by the way , it's not cheap to gather the parts or pretty when the progect fails.

I have high hopes that the Motus progect succseeds. But this is a crap economy, people are selling toys and purse strings are tightening.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:52 PM   #532
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I have high hopes that the Motus progect succseeds. But this is a crap economy, people are selling toys and purse strings are tightening.
To quote a friend of mine who sells airplanes- "people with money will always have money" as his business doesn't follow the economy.
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:03 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by SomethingClever View Post
* Snip

I'd take the R model, naked please!

Clever,
It may be real warm riding naked.
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:02 PM   #534
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they could soooooo easy bild an 800 twin as well,eh ? it would be much shorter and more liteweight as well as having plenty of power for its size !!
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:36 PM   #535
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I'm sure they will have enough potential buyers. I mean it's 20+ for a HD FL series bike. This US bike will have so much more of what is really important. They will probably not offer a chrome package, cupholders or a $2k engine upgrade to make 20 more HP. I say, bring on the new ideas, we have enough retro style these days.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:15 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
If they hired him he'd just close them up now. That would save lots of money.
Ah, glad you asked. First I divide parts into two segments, those can be outsourced and those that have/must be made in house, we talking manufactured parts only, as suspension, brakes, fuel injection etc. of course must be bought. But first I would have a professional racer/rider asses the different components for function, do we really need Ohlins, Brembos etc.. Next I'd have a Manufacturing Engineer work closely with vendors to make sure every little bit of saving is realized by using the proper production methods. I'd hire one top mechanic/tuner(Erik Buell comes to mind) to lead the rest of the principals, Engineers, etc. in the assembly area, they won't have much to do after all is in place. The Idea would be to sell as many bikes possible based on that terrific engine leaving room for customizing alla Harley to make the bike unique to the individual while keeping costs down. I may not be able to afford a Motus with all the bell and whistles and top components but I could afford a stripped version and built my way it as the money comes in. For those with deep pockets a fully customized version should be available. To maintain a Marquee presence in the bike I'd manufacture only critical parts with critical lead times that could possibly hold up production or affect quality. Why not invite prospective owners in a controlled situation to come down and help build his/her bike, there are many good mechanics/riders that would love that. Buy Manufacturing equipment used, try and set up the assembly area using store bought fixtures. As production increases add personnel only when not hiring one would actually be counter productive, as everyone would waring many hats. So in conclusion, as they say, we want the most affordable bikes first, second for those with deep pockets and third for racers. Aren't glad you asked, and I haven't even got into the details which is where the devil hides.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:42 AM   #537
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Originally Posted by capriccio View Post
Ah, glad you asked. First I divide parts into two segments, those can be outsourced and those that have/must be made in house, we talking manufactured parts only, as suspension, brakes, fuel injection etc. of course must be bought. But first I would have a professional racer/rider asses the different components for function, do we really need Ohlins, Brembos etc.. Next I'd have a Manufacturing Engineer work closely with vendors to make sure every little bit of saving is realized by using the proper production methods. I'd hire one top mechanic/tuner(Erik Buell comes to mind) to lead the rest of the principals, Engineers, etc. in the assembly area, they won't have much to do after all is in place. The Idea would be to sell as many bikes possible based on that terrific engine leaving room for customizing alla Harley to make the bike unique to the individual while keeping costs down. I may not be able to afford a Motus with all the bell and whistles and top components but I could afford a stripped version and built my way it as the money comes in. For those with deep pockets a fully customized version should be available. To maintain a Marquee presence in the bike I'd manufacture only critical parts with critical lead times that could possibly hold up production or affect quality. Why not invite prospective owners in a controlled situation to come down and help build his/her bike, there are many good mechanics/riders that would love that. Buy Manufacturing equipment used, try and set up the assembly area using store bought fixtures. As production increases add personnel only when not hiring one would actually be counter productive, as everyone would waring many hats. So in conclusion, as they say, we want the most affordable bikes first, second for those with deep pockets and third for racers. Aren't glad you asked, and I haven't even got into the details which is where the devil hides.
No, I didn't ask.

No matter what the bike would be pricier than something from Japan due to where it's built, and it's small volume. If they didn't use high quality name brand parts like Ohlins or Brembo it would likely keep most buyers away because they'd be expecting those components and otherwise bitch about a pricey bike with cheap bits.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:41 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by capriccio View Post
Ah, glad you asked. First I divide parts into two segments, those can be outsourced and those that have/must be made in house, we talking manufactured parts only, as suspension, brakes, fuel injection etc. of course must be bought. But first I would have a professional racer/rider asses the different components for function, do we really need Ohlins, Brembos etc.. Next I'd have a Manufacturing Engineer work closely with vendors to make sure every little bit of saving is realized by using the proper production methods. I'd hire one top mechanic/tuner(Erik Buell comes to mind) to lead the rest of the principals, Engineers, etc. in the assembly area, they won't have much to do after all is in place. The Idea would be to sell as many bikes possible based on that terrific engine leaving room for customizing alla Harley to make the bike unique to the individual while keeping costs down. I may not be able to afford a Motus with all the bell and whistles and top components but I could afford a stripped version and built my way it as the money comes in. For those with deep pockets a fully customized version should be available. To maintain a Marquee presence in the bike I'd manufacture only critical parts with critical lead times that could possibly hold up production or affect quality. Why not invite prospective owners in a controlled situation to come down and help build his/her bike, there are many good mechanics/riders that would love that. Buy Manufacturing equipment used, try and set up the assembly area using store bought fixtures. As production increases add personnel only when not hiring one would actually be counter productive, as everyone would waring many hats. So in conclusion, as they say, we want the most affordable bikes first, second for those with deep pockets and third for racers. Aren't glad you asked, and I haven't even got into the details which is where the devil hides.
First off, anyone buying a premium priced bike isn't going to want the cheapest suspension you can find. Brembo mono-bloc and Ohlins are high end NAME BRANDS that some people demand to set their bike apart and justify the $20k+ price. You also missed the part that there would be two trim levels since early on. The regular MST and the upgraded MST-R. Both protos are running -R equipment on them right now. The R models have the Ohlins, mono-blocs and whatever else punches the bike to an R level. I don't think they have determined the base model parts.

Second, Selling cheap bikes first isn't in their best interest as far as marketing is concerned. You are going to get a lot of press, a lot of heat, and a lot of attention right out of the gate. Hit them up with the big guns, sell some high end bikes, and then follow up with a bike more suited for the masses, but don't degrade the MST-R in the process. Racers? who ever suggested this bike would ever race? The engine could be sourced for cart racing, but this bike isn't being built for that.

These guys are not idiots. They are evaluating both the bikes and the dealer's interest as they cross the country having fun riding their creation. The dealer interst will factor into how the bikes are made due to demand. Did you notice the dealer stops on the tour? It was dealers used to catering to 'unique' bikes and their buyers.

I suspect a very small crew making bikes by hand from sourced parts. Why wouldn't they do it this way? It's the most cost effective. As money and interest rolls in you can expand without spending a ton of cash. Cost of parts are higher, but you can ebb and flow with the market. They have hired the best engine people, the best engineering people, and everything suggests they will have the assembly nailed down as well.

Harley has over 100 years of backlog to sell chrome and fringe to their customers. Motus needs to let the aftermarket see where the modifications go. You shouldn't need much more than a few un-needed doo-dads anyway (ohhh, carbon valve covers, Cool!). Most sport touring rigs are tweeked by their owners with the main bike left alone. Sport touring guys are a farkle bunch.

Erik Buell, BTW would not be my first pick for anthing to do with Motus. He has his hands full kicking ass with EBR.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:42 PM   #539
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Google "Birmingham Motorcycle Company, LLC" this is the parent co. for Motus. You can get some of the information about the company everyone has been speculating about.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:49 PM   #540
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Originally Posted by capriccio View Post
Aren't glad you asked, and I haven't even got into the details which is where the devil hides.
Must be where your spell checker hides too

Actually I read your post with some interest. Maybe you are right, maybe you aren't. But I'm hopeful for them, and I'm not so quick to assume they will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They have a lot of hurdles to overcome, but plenty of other startups in all kinds of manufacturing have done it before.

Beyond that - and perhaps unrelated to your post - I'm pretty sick and tired of the self-loathing that seems rampant in this country. We sold out our manufacturing to countries like China, and with it our economy and our future. Yet many don't seem to give a shit, and line right up at places like Harbor Freight to buy their cheap Chinese crap and then bitch that they can't find a job. Go figure. I've reached a point where I will only buy foreign if there is no similar U.S. product available. I don't even care if the U.S. product costs more, I'd rather spend more domestically than send the money somewhere else. To that end, if I happen to be in the market for a sport tourer and if Motus happens to be selling them I really don't care if a Japanese competitor's bike such as the C14 can be purchased for less. I'm spending my money here.
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