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Old 09-07-2011, 11:18 AM   #601
Pete™
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Originally Posted by kirb View Post
I own an FJR for over 5 years now. I used to own a ST1100 before that. I would drive over your mother with both of them to buy a Motus at $25k or less. It's not a bloated, over-complicated, heavy touring rig. It's a lighter, fast, touring rig without a lot of bullshit to deal with. Simple sells, Exclusive sells.
Bingo.





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Old 09-07-2011, 11:18 AM   #602
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kirb I get it now.It is another overpriced niche product for a few snob$$$...too bad for us working stiffs.
Read the story that the MOTUS designer used to work for Confederate...
My bad !
How do you compare the VFR 1200,another V4 sport-tourer with the MOTUS ?
Probably not fast or sporty enough because of that "power sapping driveshaft"...
Anyways I think chains belong on moto-cross or race bikes but not street bikes for obvious reasons...
Bicycles are better of with chains too because you can't afford to sap anything if you only have 1 human pedal power...
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Old 09-07-2011, 11:55 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
And of course ABS and TC is only for pussies;like Rossi,Lorenzo and Stoner who won't ride around without that stuff either even if their bikes make way less torque and have much stickier tires...
Please show when Rossi, Lorenzo, and Stoner started using ABS, since it is against the rules.

Please stop making up "facts" to suit your preferences in a sport-tourer. If you don't like the Motus, design something better yourself.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:17 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
The write-ups by Alan Cathcard;the highest paid journo-whore of the whole industry...
As for the MOTUS itself I like the idea but I have serious doubts they will succed.
No need to worry they will NOT "succeed". The concept of the bike is sound and the Chain drive on the bike they got right IMO. The problem MOTUS has is the type of bike they are building represents such a small segment of motorcycles in general. Sadly they will not be around for long. For those of you who plan to wait to buy one I wouldn’t wait too long. For those who don’t wait… You should have a great and rare ride.
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Old 09-07-2011, 12:28 PM   #605
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wot oil for chain ? wot oil fer injun? wot erl fer tranny rear-end? wot oyl fir geerbocks ??




























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Old 09-07-2011, 01:05 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
kirb I get it now.It is another overpriced niche product for a few snob$$$...too bad for us working stiffs.
You don't know the price yet, so you don't know if it is out of the price is us 'stiffs'. I like rare stuff. Guess that makes me a snob.

[QUOTE=Boxer-lust;16803729]How do you compare the VFR 1200,another V4 sport-tourer with the MOTUS ?/QUOTE]

The VFR was a lousy touring rig with no factory bags and uncomfortable riding position. It was also ugly. The DCT was a fantastic move forward for Honda, but the price was far too high. You are trying to compare a small production MFG with a failed attempt from a large MFG again. The Motus is no VFR...and never tried to be.

Quote:
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Anyways I think chains belong on moto-cross or race bikes but not street bikes for obvious reasons...
Just because you can't wrap your head around the fact that chain drive has been around bikes forever, still continues to be around, and is more favored than any other type of motorcycle power transmission isn't anyone's fault but yours. I'm not sure why you insist on beating that dead horse...
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Old 09-07-2011, 01:21 PM   #607
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[QUOTE=kirb;16804405]You don't know the price yet, so you don't know if it is out of the price is us 'stiffs'. I like rare stuff. Guess that makes me a snob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
How do you compare the VFR 1200,another V4 sport-tourer with the MOTUS ?/QUOTE]

The VFR was a lousy touring rig with no factory bags and uncomfortable riding position. It was also ugly. The DCT was a fantastic move forward for Honda, but the price was far too high. You are trying to compare a small production MFG with a failed attempt from a large MFG again. The Motus is no VFR...and never tried to be.



Just because you can't wrap your head around the fact that chain drive has been around bikes forever, still continues to be around, and is more favored than any other type of motorcycle power transmission isn't anyone's fault but yours. I'm not sure why you insist on beating that dead horse...
Boxer-lust should be sent here for a few weeks, they'll straighten him out...

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Old 09-07-2011, 02:11 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by dceggert View Post
Can we just say 'you are right' to all sides of this and drop it now?
Guess not...the fued rages...
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:34 PM   #609
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Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
Bueller calling someone "fanboi" doesn't make a strong argument...
Anyways I remember a european magazine putting 2 bikes on a dyno and taking the power from the clutch and rear wheel.One was a Honda VTR 1000 the other a BMW R1100S.The difference between clutch and rearwheel was the prasitic loss.Both bikes lost around 10% between clutch and rearwheel.
Chain and shaft were the same.Than they put a slightly sticky badly maintained chain on the Honda and the loss went to 12%,more loss than the driveshaft...
They also put a XJ900 with inline four and shaft on it where the power had to be transformed another 90 degree due to the axis of the crank.Yes here the loss was 5% more compared to the chain or straight through crank/shaftdrive of the BMW.
So your argument is wrong or plain ridicolous especially if you already have a super strong 1600 cc engine that definately will wear strech chains and eat sprockets...
I wish them luck but I can't see that a lot of people who have the money and like the idea of a practical touring bike with sporty pretensions like to be hassled with chaindrive...i.m.h.o...of course.
They know that this will be their cryptonite because they said a belt can't take the power.
I say have someone design a driveshaft system if you want to be a serious contender.
Who would buy a ST,GT,FJR,C14 with a "power sapping driveshaft"...
I knew you were a fake n00b. Now you've confirmed it.

So your "source" is something you supposedly remember from some euro magazine, yet you can't produce a link or a reference to the article. That's about what I expected.

Again, a ring and pinion robs more power than a chain and sprockets:

Motorcycle chains are part of the drive train to transmit the motor power to the back wheel. While properly lubricated chains can reach an efficiency of more 98% in the transmission, unlubricated chains will significantly decrease performance and increase chain and sprockets wear.[4]

Two distinct types of aftermarket lubricants are available for motorcycle chains, spray on lubricants and oil drip feed systems.
Spray lubricants may contain wax or PTFE. While these lubricants use tack additives to stay on the chain they can also attract dirt and sand from the road and over time produce a grinding paste that accelerates component wear.[citation needed]
Oil drip feed systems continuously lubricate the chain and use light oil that does not stick to the chain. Research has shown that oil drip feed systems provide the greatest wear protection and greatest power saving


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_chain

Chain/belt drive DOES have an advantage over shaft drive, however. A shaft drive has a mechanical efficiency of around 80%. This means only 80% of the input power is transferred to the rear wheel. The efficiency of a chain/belt is mid 90%. The chain loses efficiency only due to friction internal to the chain and can be helped somewhat by frequent cleaning and lubrication of the chain, but this increases maintenance effort and time.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_t...#ixzz1XJPB6q5i


While I think the 80% efficiency estimate is on the low side, the fact remains that even if a shaft drive design reaches 90% efficiency it still won't be as efficient as a chain.

But don't let the facts stop you from making a fool of yourself. Carry on.
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:51 PM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
Again, a ring and pinion robs more power than a chain and sprockets:

Motorcycle chains are part of the drive train to transmit the motor power to the back wheel. While properly lubricated chains can reach an efficiency of more 98% in the transmission, unlubricated chains will significantly decrease performance and increase chain and sprockets wear.[4]

Two distinct types of aftermarket lubricants are available for motorcycle chains, spray on lubricants and oil drip feed systems.
Spray lubricants may contain wax or PTFE. While these lubricants use tack additives to stay on the chain they can also attract dirt and sand from the road and over time produce a grinding paste that accelerates component wear.[citation needed]
Oil drip feed systems continuously lubricate the chain and use light oil that does not stick to the chain. Research has shown that oil drip feed systems provide the greatest wear protection and greatest power saving


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_chain

Chain/belt drive DOES have an advantage over shaft drive, however. A shaft drive has a mechanical efficiency of around 80%. This means only 80% of the input power is transferred to the rear wheel. The efficiency of a chain/belt is mid 90%. The chain loses efficiency only due to friction internal to the chain and can be helped somewhat by frequent cleaning and lubrication of the chain, but this increases maintenance effort and time.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_t...#ixzz1XJPB6q5i
Thanks for posting this, I've been looking for this information for some time as some of my co-worker's bikes are shaftdrive vs. my Ninja's chain. I also use a Scottoiler on my bike to keep the chain oiled and it works very well in that regard.
Tony
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TonyKZ1 screwed with this post 09-07-2011 at 03:00 PM
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:28 PM   #611
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Ya know, considering I abused the hell out of my ST3 chain, hardley spitting any lube at it, and only adjusting it in fits of productivity when the harshness in on/off throttle transition, and it still lasted until almost 20k miles, I'm not going to say a word about how crappy chains are.

Do I like shaft? You betcha, I've got a couple old shaftie bikes, and all I ever do is change the shaft drive oil once a year or more often, and on one of them I've even taken the driveshaft off to lube the splines on the tranny output.

But I wouldn't let a lack of shaft/belt turn me away from a bike.

And if someone thinks a shaft drive saps less energy than a properly lined up and lubed (aka, drenched in lube every so often), I want some of the stuff you are smoking. I may be wrong on this account, but I'm pretty sure it makes two additional turns, one at the rear wheel, and one in the transmission to get the shaft pointing towards the rear.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:27 PM   #612
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Ya know, considering I abused the hell out of my ST3 chain, hardley spitting any lube at it, and only adjusting it in fits of productivity when the harshness in on/off throttle transition, and it still lasted until almost 20k miles, I'm not going to say a word about how crappy chains are.
Same here - I stopped lubing the chains on my bikes around 5 years ago. I still check them regularly, of course, and always keep them clean. Never had a problem, and between tire changes and maintenance I don't remember the last time I've had to adjust a chain myself.

I think the absence of grime and dirt between the rubbing parts evens the whole thing out and the chain and sprockets end up lasting just as long (not to mention the bike remains spotless!). Modern, internally lubricated chains are great.
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Old 09-07-2011, 08:53 PM   #613
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I tell you something Bueller.Chains rule !
Too bad FORD doesn't put them on their cars anymore since the good ol' days of the Thin Lizzy...
I'll bet they would outsell Honda and Toyota if they would only bring chaindrive back...
Even if you don't believe me;Guzzi and Boxer shaftdrive has the same frictional losses as chaindrive.
And with todays powerful motorcycle engines the convenience of a clean shaft by far outweighs a couple of percent of the parasitic losses of shaft driven inline-4's !
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:23 PM   #614
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Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
I tell you something Bueller.Chains rule !
Too bad FORD doesn't put them on their cars anymore since the good ol' days of the Thin Lizzy...
I'll bet they would outsell Honda and Toyota if they would only bring chaindrive back...
Even if you don't believe me;Guzzi and Boxer shaftdrive has the same frictional losses as chaindrive.
And with todays powerful motorcycle engines the convenience of a clean shaft by far outweighs a couple of percent of the parasitic losses of shaft driven inline-4's !
And it's great for the unsprung weight.
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Old 09-08-2011, 06:11 AM   #615
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Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
I tell you something Bueller.Chains rule !
Too bad FORD doesn't put them on their cars anymore since the good ol' days of the Thin Lizzy...
I'll bet they would outsell Honda and Toyota if they would only bring chaindrive back...
Even if you don't believe me;Guzzi and Boxer shaftdrive has the same frictional losses as chaindrive.
And with todays powerful motorcycle engines the convenience of a clean shaft by far outweighs a couple of percent of the parasitic losses of shaft driven inline-4's !
Even the high and mighty BMW conceded the the superiority of the chain on their F and G model motorcycles. In those applications when they didn't need ultimate strength they used a belt.

Sounds like your problem is you got the shaft and liked it
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