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Old 09-08-2011, 07:33 AM   #616
kirb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
And with todays powerful motorcycle engines the convenience of a clean shaft by far outweighs a couple of percent of the parasitic losses of shaft driven inline-4's !
You did state something correct- Shaft drives do outweigh chain systems. They are much heavier. Another thing Motus was trying to keep down- overall bike weight.

Last thing I want is another sport touring rig that comes in at 650-700lbs wet. I got rid of my ST1100 to gain 50HP and now I can lose 100lbs at the same time? Keep your boat anchor shaft drive. I'll take a 530lbs wet weight bike any day.

A few percent HP losses don't concern me. Throwing around a bike in the twisties that is 100lbs lighter while maintaining 160hp? I'm still in. Naysayers stay home.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:57 AM   #617
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If MOTUS really had been serious to build a light bike they would have stayed away from a V4 that builds heavier than a inline-4 or any twin and for sure would not have mounted it sideways unless any other V4 except for Hondas ST1300.
This is the first chaindrive that will have as much parasitic loss and being as heavy as a shaftdrive with the additional gears to transform the power 90 degrees from the crank to the chain;sorry couldn't help it...
For sure they wouldn't have used Chevrolet automotive engineering to make a light motorcycle engine,and especially not a pushrod V4 with 1645cc.Why not beeing innovative and using a smaller engine that is supercharged and gets the same torque and power but is physically smaller with less weight?
It's safe to say that it will be lighter than a ST1300 but with 570lbs wet still much heavier than the 460 lbs wet shaft driven R1200S sports-tourer...
Anyways,time will tell who was right.
I wish them luck...
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:04 AM   #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
If MOTUS really had been serious to build a light bike they would have stayed away from a V4 that builds heavier than a inline-4 or any twin and for sure would not have mounted it sideways unless any other V4 except for Hondas ST1300.
This is the first chaindrive that will have as much parasitic loss and being as heavy as a shaftdrive with the additional gears to transform the power 90 degrees from the crank to the chain;sorry couldn't help it...
For sure they wouldn't have used Chevrolet automotive engineering to make a light motorcycle engine,and especially not a pushrod V4 with 1645cc.Why not beeing innovative and using a smaller engine that is supercharged and gets the same torque and power but is physically smaller with less weight?
It's safe to say that it will be lighter than a ST1300 but with 570lbs wet still much heavier than the 460 lbs wet shaft driven R1200S sports-tourer...
Anyways,time will tell who was right.
I wish them luck...
i believe the loss at the engine with a 90 degree drive,is much less than the loss at the rear gear, because typically there is very little if any reduction or multiplcation of the ratio at the engine.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:07 AM   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
If MOTUS really had been serious to build a light bike they would have stayed away from a V4 that builds heavier than a inline-4 or any twin and for sure would not have mounted it sideways unless any other V4 except for Hondas ST1300.
This is the first chaindrive that will have as much parasitic loss and being as heavy as a shaftdrive with the additional gears to transform the power 90 degrees from the crank to the chain;sorry couldn't help it...
For sure they wouldn't have used Chevrolet automotive engineering to make a light motorcycle engine,and especially not a pushrod V4 with 1645cc.Why not beeing innovative and using a smaller engine that is supercharged and gets the same torque and power but is physically smaller with less weight?
It's safe to say that it will be lighter than a ST1300 but with 570lbs wet still much heavier than the 460 lbs wet shaft driven R1200S sports-tourer...
Anyways,time will tell who was right.
I wish them luck...
With each new post your lack of mechanical knowledge becomes more and more glaring.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:27 AM   #620
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I'm surprised that Motus did not put shaft drive on their bike.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:55 AM   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnone View Post
I'm surprised that Motus did not put shaft drive on their bike.

really?

thanks for your input.

I've contacted the engineers at motus and let them know that Barnone is surprised.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:25 AM   #622
kirb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
If MOTUS really had been serious to build a light bike they would have stayed away from a V4 that builds heavier than a inline-4 or any twin and for sure would not have mounted it sideways unless any other V4 except for Hondas ST1300.
This is the first chaindrive that will have as much parasitic loss and being as heavy as a shaftdrive with the additional gears to transform the power 90 degrees from the crank to the chain;sorry couldn't help it...
For sure they wouldn't have used Chevrolet automotive engineering to make a light motorcycle engine,and especially not a pushrod V4 with 1645cc.Why not beeing innovative and using a smaller engine that is supercharged and gets the same torque and power but is physically smaller with less weight?
It's safe to say that it will be lighter than a ST1300 but with 570lbs wet still much heavier than the 460 lbs wet shaft driven R1200S sports-tourer...
Anyways,time will tell who was right.
I wish them luck...
From Motus' web site: Wet weight 240 kg (530 lbs) Please quote correct figures.
R1200s- wet weight- 483lbs....(no bags, crap seat, horrible ergos, lousy range)
Feel free to save about 15-20lbs for that bike when you finally fit bags to it....then you can spend the extra cash on the spine doctor after you log an 800 mile day. I also didn't see it for sale on BMW's page. Must have been a sales nightmare.

Again, apples to oranges. You are really reaching at this point. Why not compare REAL sports touring rigs with range, comfort, and...well...ones that are still made (or at least will be for sale in 2012).

For the record, the crankshaft is in the same plane as your beloved BMW, Guzzi, ST1300, ST1100 and others. Not sure why you are so hung up on the crank shaft direction and chain drive.

Basing a US made motorcycle on proven GM RACING technology was a bad idea? You are truly short sighted. This engine has proven longevity, proven horsepower, proven design. It is cheap to live with and easy to work on. Basing a motor on the Chevy small block is one of the best ideas a startup company ever had. Bowtie small blocks have a bigger following than just about any source of motivation ever made. What a stupid idea to latch on to that.

You don't wish them luck, let's be honest.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:37 AM   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirb View Post
From Motus' web site: Wet weight 240 kg (530 lbs) Please quote correct figures.
R1200s- wet weight- 483lbs....(no bags, crap seat, horrible ergos, lousy range)
Feel free to save about 15-20lbs for that bike when you finally fit bags to it....then you can spend the extra cash on the spine doctor after you log an 800 mile day. I also didn't see it for sale on BMW's page. Must have been a sales nightmare.

Again, apples to oranges. You are really reaching at this point. Why not compare REAL sports touring rigs with range, comfort, and...well...ones that are still made (or at least will be for sale in 2012).

For the record, the crankshaft is in the same plane as your beloved BMW, Guzzi, ST1300, ST1100 and others. Not sure why you are so hung up on the crank shaft direction and chain drive.

Basing a US made motorcycle on proven GM RACING technology was a bad idea? You are truly short sighted. This engine has proven longevity, proven horsepower, proven design. It is cheap to live with and easy to work on. Basing a motor on the Chevy small block is one of the best ideas a startup company ever had. Bowtie small blocks have a bigger following than just about any source of motivation ever made. What a stupid idea to latch on to that.

You don't wish them luck, let's be honest.
Totally agree. My father in law has a 2010 Corvette, show me another car in that performance league that gets regularly, real 26+ mpg, and basically needs oil changes for maintenance. Every time he comes to visit he gets out of that car shaking his head and can't believe how good a car it is for soaking up miles on the highway.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:34 PM   #624
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I have a Camaro myself but car technology is not necessarily good for motorcycles;otherwise the Boss-Hoss with a real Chevy-V8 would rule the motorcycle market...
240Kg I would dismiss as propaganda;mybe they use japanese scales who always come up 40lbs short...
O.K. I get it.You guys don't mind chains...
But for the MOTUS a bike like a Boxer or Guzzi with perfect north/south crank arrangement to put in extra gears to channel the power an extra 90 degrees to employ a chain is just plain stupid!
Of course it takes more money and engineering expertise to put a shaftdrive on but to use an excuse chains are lighter and the MOTUS is a "sportbike" is plain ridicolous and pure PR B.S....
With shaftdrive it could have been a serious contender.
Without it I doubt the "made in usa" label has as much or more appeal as other sports-tourers like VFR1200 or K1300S...
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:53 PM   #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
I have a Camaro myself but car technology is not necessarily good for motorcycles;otherwise the Boss-Hoss with a real Chevy-V8 would rule the motorcycle market...
240Kg I would dismiss as propaganda;mybe they use japanese scales who always come up 40lbs short...
O.K. I get it.You guys don't mind chains...
But for the MOTUS a bike like a Boxer or Guzzi with perfect north/south crank arrangement to put in extra gears to channel the power an extra 90 degrees to employ a chain is just plain stupid!
Of course it takes more money and engineering expertise to put a shaftdrive on but to use an excuse chains are lighter and the MOTUS is a "sportbike" is plain ridicolous and pure PR B.S....
With shaftdrive it could have been a serious contender.
Without it I doubt the "made in usa" label has as much or more appeal as other sports-tourers like VFR1200 or K1300S...
Not necessarily car technology, just proven, efficient, reliable technology. Sh!t, if you're going down that road, why is shaft drive that is so good on cars being used on bikes? Or fuel injection? Or ABS. You still haven't talked about unsprung weight in any of your posts. Man I don't know why I keep getting sucked into this. Gotta go find the ignore button.
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Old 09-08-2011, 01:05 PM   #626
kirb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
I have a Camaro myself but car technology is not necessarily good for motorcycles;otherwise the Boss-Hoss with a real Chevy-V8 would rule the motorcycle market...
I'm sure you are in jest as the Motus is a 'baby block' with GM roots, 4 less cyl, and much lower weight. You might as well say that BMW shouldn't have taken the inline 6 out of their cars and shoved it into the GTL like they did...(see how I did that? just like you!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
I would dismiss as propaganda;mybe they use japanese scales who always come up 40lbs short...
But for the MOTUS a bike like a Boxer or Guzzi with perfect north/south crank arrangement to put in extra gears to channel the power an extra 90 degrees to employ a chain is just plain stupid!
I guess all I can say is 'prove it'.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:00 PM   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
I have a Camaro myself but car technology is not necessarily good for motorcycles;otherwise the Boss-Hoss with a real Chevy-V8 would rule the motorcycle market...
240Kg I would dismiss as propaganda;mybe they use japanese scales who always come up 40lbs short...
O.K. I get it.You guys don't mind chains...
But for the MOTUS a bike like a Boxer or Guzzi with perfect north/south crank arrangement to put in extra gears to channel the power an extra 90 degrees to employ a chain is just plain stupid!
Of course it takes more money and engineering expertise to put a shaftdrive on but to use an excuse chains are lighter and the MOTUS is a "sportbike" is plain ridicolous and pure PR B.S....
With shaftdrive it could have been a serious contender.
Without it I doubt the "made in usa" label has as much or more appeal as other sports-tourers like VFR1200 or K1300S...
What a dumb post. You blast Motus for the 90 degree directional change of power using a chain, while your beloved boxer with shaft drive makes the exact same 90 degree directional change. Motus does it at the output of the transmission, while BMW does it at the rear wheel with a horsepower robbing high friction ring & pinion.

The only motorcycle design that can truly make power in the same plane it puts it to the ground is a transverse mounted engine with chain drive like most Japanese sport bikes. Not coincidentally, this is also the most efficient design for the transfer of power to the rear wheel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
With shaftdrive it could have been a serious contender.
It won't be a serious contender regardless, but that has nothing to do with the choice of final drive and everything to do with production numbers, dealer network, and cost.

Apparently the only things you seem to be an expert on are trolling and fake n00bs.
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Old 09-08-2011, 02:21 PM   #628
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I will seriously consider the Motus when/if it comes out. There is nothing about that bike I didn't like, especially for a prototype. I don't care if it is chain drive. I want chain drive. 160hp. 120ft-lbs. 530lbs wet. Unless this bike completely handles like crap, or doesn't have the build quality, I will want one.
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Old 09-08-2011, 03:06 PM   #629
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I'm still waiting for Motus to announce that their engine will also be used in a new racing class. Something like the Formula Fords. I bet it wouldn't take much to get their engine to produce 300+ HP with a turbo and still be reliable as the day is long. Not that racers would need that much power.

My real point here is that something tells me there's more to Motus than just making several hundred bikes a year. The bikes are the icing on the cake, the showcase for the engine.
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Old 09-08-2011, 04:02 PM   #630
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it would be a great engine for a dwarf car
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