ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-18-2012, 10:24 AM   #1006
mentalfloss
Gnarly Adventurer
 
mentalfloss's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Outside Lawrence Kansas
Oddometer: 295
wrong....I sold 3 HD's over $34,000 in one day two years ago when I was a sales manager at a harley dealer. People will buy expensive bikes, just not as many as will buy cheaper bikes! I have bought 5 motorcycles in the last 3 years, nice ones....total spent $15,000. I look for value , bikes that have had the financial slack taken out of them....used. I am not motus's demographic.
I hope they do well!


Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Not quite accurate. Just for perspective, the only HDs that sell for substantially over $24K are the Screamin Eagle models like your bud bought and those make up less than 5% of all HDs sold each model year.

The fully equipped Electra Glide Ultra Limited is just over $25, with most touring bikes, ie., Road Glide, Street Glide, Road King, Electra Glide in the $19-24K range and Softails and Dynas in the $16-18K range.

The problem for Motus will be to grow sales after the first year launch. Most HD owners started out with a $7-10K Sportster (if they bought new) and moved up to the higher priced bikes. Brand loyalty, like it or not, is the envy of every bike manufacturer in the world. After the first 100 Motus are sold, where do they go the find the next in line to buy a $30-35 bike in sales years 2 and 3?
We sold a LOT of $30,000 bikes....
mentalfloss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 10:46 AM   #1007
RydRy
Gnarly Adventurer
 
RydRy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Stowe,VT
Oddometer: 328
thing is as I think about it- I wanted MOTUS to not be like HARLEY ( I love that they are a US company) but I wanted an alternative, sure HD's are a tad pricey IMO, but MOTUS isnt even that- its a competitor with the cars I love-
RydRy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 01:09 PM   #1008
scooterspirit
Ilovekitty
 
scooterspirit's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Alongandlonelyhighway
Oddometer: 709
One thing I know, if I could buy a Ferrari, then the people who buy Ferrari would not even be interested in them. I can assure you of that!
2009 Harley Davidson CVO Screamin Eagle Road Glide -(just had 5,000 mile service.) Asking $27,000--still books for over $29K! Call
scooterspirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 01:33 PM   #1009
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,259
I absolutely love this bike, but I agree with the concensus that Motus has a very tough row to hoe on this.

The concept of producing an exclusive Rolex, Gucci, Chris-Craft, type product in which people will pay way beyond the basic value of the product to own something that is rare and exclusive is certainly viable, but it is also a very tricky thing to pull off, especially for a product with no existing branding to build on. Much of the appeal of this bike seem to be vested in its high technology and high-end premium parts, but the technology and high-end parts are already being diluted to get the bike out the door with the resources available to the company. My bet is that we'll seem some ruthless cost-cutting before this bike ships.

I'm also skeptical that the market they've put this bike in - high-performance sport touring - if financially viable for a new startup. First, it is not a segment that is cutting-edge new or not already very well-represented with good bikes. In fact, we've had almost an embarrassment of riches in this segment over the last decade and there are some superb bikes out there, and many don't lack for panache. (The sport-touring segment is also under attack right now from below with large adventure bikes.) Second, sport-touring is a about traveling with your bike, not leaving it in the garage to admire. I'd be pretty hesitant about taking off on a 5K-mile tour on a first-year Motus knowing the kind of bugs likely to be lurking in in the bike and that I would be, most of the time, thousands of miles from the nearest dealer.

I think small-market, exclusive, low-volume works much better for a different type of bike... a simpler, less-technology-intensive bike that can build on some kind of long-term heritage and can be used for short blasts and general garage drooling. Something like this:



Again, I wish them luck and hope they succeed. But my guess is that we're looking at best at a situation where they build bikes for a year or two and then slowly fade away. Or at worst, a Excelsior-Henderson type of implosion. Another scenario is that Motus becomes the street-bike equivalent of MotoCzysz but I view this as unlikely - Motus seems a lot more well-grounded, pragmatic, and less founder ego-driven.

- Mark

markjenn screwed with this post 03-18-2012 at 01:50 PM
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 01:55 PM   #1010
xtop20A
Banned
 
xtop20A's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: grants ass oregon, er, pass
Oddometer: 1,599
even if motus fails ,it is a good investment to buy one or more
these type always end up being worth more when the company fails
xtop20A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 02:22 PM   #1011
markjenn
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Swellvue, WA
Oddometer: 10,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtop20A View Post
these type always end up being worth more when the company fails
I could find numerous examples where this is not true.

- Mark
markjenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 04:23 PM   #1012
blk-betty
bam-a-lam
 
blk-betty's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Oddometer: 2,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post
wrong....I sold 3 HD's over $34,000 in one day two years ago when I was a sales manager at a harley dealer. People will buy expensive bikes, just not as many as will buy cheaper bikes! I have bought 5 motorcycles in the last 3 years, nice ones....total spent $15,000. I look for value , bikes that have had the financial slack taken out of them....used. I am not motus's demographic.
I hope they do well!




We sold a LOT of $30,000 bikes....
So what percentage of bikes sold each year at your dealership had an MSRP in excess of $30K? My guess is less than 5% since only the SE/CVO bikes are priced that high and they make up a small percentage of HDs produced each year. Won't argue quality or performance but spending $30+K on a bike from a world known manufactuer with a long history and huge dealer/aftermarket support is a better buy than a start-up.

I stand by my original opinion and believe that unless prices come down, after 2 years Motus will sell very few bikes. I hope I'm wrong....we have a huge membership here (where guys claim to be riders and not posers like the chopper crowd) and no one following this thread has said they will buy.
__________________
Any day on a dirt road is a great day
blk-betty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 07:19 PM   #1013
rocker59
diplomatico di moto
 
rocker59's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: The Trans-Mississippi
Oddometer: 15,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by GB View Post
which begs the question, what is the demographic for this bike? Is that mentioned anywhere in their press release?

I see rich white guys dropping $40K on a Harley CVO and gain instant badass status as the top tier owner in his local HOG chapter. Everyone will be ooing and aaahing over the custom paint job and all the chrome bits... Owner feels he got his money's worth...

Rich guy spends $37K on the Motus MST, the name does not ring a bell with his peers..... it will sell to those who see it, like it, want it, money is no object. But without brand name recognition, the bike does not give the owner any perceived status symbol. I think part of the equation of buying a luxury brand is that you think you're getting a vehicle that's a cut above the rest, but also you're letting others know about your perceived higher status.

Anyway, it's too bad that for gearheads like us, this bike's out of our reach or can't justify spending that much for the unquantifiable lure of this bike; its engine.
+1

"MOTUS" is a stupid name. It doesn't conjure visions of anything.

It's a "Crotch Rocket" to the average person, and at $37k, it will be relegated to places like Barber's in Birmingham alongside other cool bikes, like the Goodman, that cost too much money, didn't have any name recognition, and whose developers didn't have deep enough pockets to last very long.

$31k/$37k is kinda out there for an ass-bling-chopper, but for a sport-touring motorcycle, it's absolutely insane.

__________________
Rocker59 (aka guzzimike), Aux Arcs (NW Arkansas)
Moto Guzzi: LeMans 1000 CI, Sport 1100, V11 LeMans Nero Corsa
IBA #24873, MGNOC #21347
“Just keep playing, no matter how weird it gets.”
rocker59 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 04:50 AM   #1014
dolomoto
Destroyer of Motorcycles
 
dolomoto's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Gen. Oglethorpe's 1733 folly
Oddometer: 2,491
I sat on one at the Daytona Bch BMW/Ducati dealer. Beautiful bike up close with lots of obvious engineering. Even my HD-riding partner commented on how well executed it is. It looks lithe and fast.

The ergos were great!....except for the thigh clearance. My 34" legs were nearly touching the cylinders, with my 'stich on...I would not fit. Sliding further back on the seat is an option but one of the advantages of having a great seat like the Motus is to be able to move around on it.

YMMV.
__________________
Hot, Nasty, Bad-Ass Speed tours: 2008,2010,2014
dolomoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 05:39 AM   #1015
LuciferMutt
Rides slow bike slow
 
LuciferMutt's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: New(er) Mexico
Oddometer: 10,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
I could find numerous examples where this is not true.

- Mark

What, your Delorean investment project didn't pan out the way you planned?
__________________
You couldn't hear a dump truck driving through a nitro glycerin plant!

Badasses might screw with another badass. Nobody screws with a nut job. -- Plaka
LuciferMutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 06:01 AM   #1016
kirb
should be out riding
 
kirb's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Musky, MI
Oddometer: 1,569
I was, and still am, a big Motus supporter from day one. I like the idea, the way they went about it, and the final product. They used a lot of social media as well as very good 'unique' dealers to promote the product. That tells alot of the potential market- everyone who will buy one. They are not excluding anyone out of the potential market except for people who won't pay for one.

I'm in that camp. I knew there was zero chance this bike was going to come in under $20k, but I was crossing my fingers that the base model would be $25k and the titted out version at $30k. I was in buying mode at these price points after a year or so of letting them work out the bugs.

Now? I am not considering it. I'll keep my eyes on the company and I might have a weak moment when I'll sell off some bikes and have this fill the garage, but I doubt it.

They are in a tough spot here. You can't offer the bikes for the prices they are and then lower them later. You piss off all the people who bought in early and devalue the bikes already in customers hands. The better idea they should have tried (and it was mentioned before here) is to offer up the high spec version first for $30k and then offer up the low spec version for $25k after sales start to fall off or a few model years down the road.

They will sell everyone they make...for a while. I'll be interested to see what happens after that.
__________________
'13 Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX, '07 Moto Guzzi Griso, '08 KTM adventure, '00 EH Super X, '48 Indian Chief (in resto)
kirb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 07:50 AM   #1017
RedRocket
Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs
 
RedRocket's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 19,015
Lots of pissing and moaning around here.
Hand labor always costs more. Everyone who has seen one in person seems to comment on it's beautiful finish.

Harley sells THOUSANDS of CVOs every year in the $ 30K range.
If I remember correctly Motus is aiming for only 200 units per year. I think they'll sell that many at the announced price point.
Using a KTM headlight probably saves $ 1000 per bike. Building your own headlight casting is very expensive, and it looks just fine there.
Progressive shock? big deal, I'm sure it was developed properly, and works well, plus it's not something you normally see. Ohlins forks are a visible item, and they used it on the base model.

All of you guys making comparisons to used bikes are obviously not the target market.
RedRocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 08:11 AM   #1018
OldPete
Be aware
 
OldPete's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Oddometer: 3,587
Progressive screams bargain basement on a $30k bike imo.

youtube>leave britney spears alone

I do wish Motus the best. In a year or two EBR will crush'em... betcha.
OldPete is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 08:45 AM   #1019
Roadscum
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: SW Florida
Oddometer: 1,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtop20A View Post
even if motus fails ,it is a good investment to buy one or more
these type always end up being worth more when the company fails
Save your money or buy a bridge, both will be better investments. There is NOTHING about the Motus that will make it a collectable. Why not a Boss Hoss and get all eight holes???

I saw a Motus at Daytona, was not impressed and took my money off the table. Many other bikes look nicer and preform better, for me it's not about "being different". As always YMMV!

Regards, Paul
__________________
"One of the things that make motorcycling so great is because it never fails to give you a feeling of freedom and adventure." - Steve McQueen
Roadscum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 08:52 AM   #1020
Dranrab Luap
E-Tarded
 
Dranrab Luap's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Oddometer: 29,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDK111 View Post
I'd add the technology is proven with a huge caveat --- on automotive engines that normally operate at 2-3000 rpm.... just like the examples of cars you list. The problem is at higher rpm ... like a bike that in some cases can run at 4000 -5000 rpm all day AND redline at 8000-10,000 rpm -- GDI is far far far fron proven technology. A lot of people think that the cost of DI is what bankrupted OMC when they went all in with their Ficht system. Granted this was with 2 strokes, but as mentioned above, Honda tried it ... and it didn't make it to production.
OMC went bankrupt because they did FICHT R&D with consumers.
Dranrab Luap is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014