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Old 03-19-2012, 08:53 AM   #1021
rocker59
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
Motus is aiming for only 200 units per year. I think they'll sell that many at the announced price point.

Quoted for posterity.

If they sell 100 bikes before folding, I'll be impressed.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:00 AM   #1022
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Originally Posted by BCC View Post
Guys, this is business 101. If you are going to be a low volume, high value company, you need to be premium priced and exclusive.
That kind of pricing is most assuredly exclusive. It's going to exclude so many potential buyers that the company WILL NOT survive. How have niche market, high dollar motorcycle manufacturers fared of late? You are right, it is business 101.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:04 AM   #1023
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Not quite accurate. Just for perspective, the only HDs that sell for substantially over $24K are the Screamin Eagle models like your bud bought and those make up less than 5% of all HDs sold each model year.

The fully equipped Electra Glide Ultra Limited is just over $25, with most touring bikes, ie., Road Glide, Street Glide, Road King, Electra Glide in the $19-24K range and Softails and Dynas in the $16-18K range.

The problem for Motus will be to grow sales after the first year launch. Most HD owners started out with a $7-10K Sportster (if they bought new) and moved up to the higher priced bikes. Brand loyalty, like it or not, is the envy of every bike manufacturer in the world. After the first 100 Motus are sold, where do they go the find the next in line to buy a $30-35 bike in sales years 2 and 3?

Bear in mind too that the people who buy the CVO Harleys are doing so in large part for image...status in the eyes of the Harley riding masses. That element is missing with Motus.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:09 AM   #1024
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
+1

"MOTUS" is a stupid name. It doesn't conjure visions of anything.

It's a "Crotch Rocket" to the average person, and at $37k, it will be relegated to places like Barber's in Birmingham alongside other cool bikes, like the Goodman, that cost too much money, didn't have any name recognition, and whose developers didn't have deep enough pockets to last very long.

$31k/$37k is kinda out there for an ass-bling-chopper, but for a sport-touring motorcycle, it's absolutely insane.

I can imagine that Jay Leno will buy one too.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:59 AM   #1025
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
Bear in mind too that the people who buy the CVO Harleys are doing so in large part for image...status in the eyes of the Harley riding masses. That element is missing with Motus.
Exactly!

I'm an HD rider/owner and never understood why someone would pay extra for a CVO bike....a little more chrome and a fancy paint job. The added performance gain of a CVO is a joke. For under $3K any shop can build up a HD motor that will flat out embarrass a CVO.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:24 PM   #1026
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For $37K the MOTUS will end up in Lenos and the Barber collection...
If it had a driveshaft what a "premium product" in this market segment would need,as also being an american made alternative to bikes like the R1200RT or ST1300 it could beeing unproven and without dealer network to speak off maybe fetch $ 16995 max to be realistic.
There are too many cheap ba$tard$ out there getting a deal for around $10K on a slightly used or almost new demo ST1300 or VFR1200...or 10 grand more than a K1600GT !The god's must be crazy...
For $37000 the MOTUS unfortunately will be nothing more than a small footnote in motorcycle history and conversation piece for a few rich guys.
Especially since it has a chain instead of clean belt or shaft necessary to compete in this segment of tourers that pretend to be sporty...
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:55 PM   #1027
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I would feel a lot better about the price if the R&T bits came on the $30k model, but I don't think that the price is out of line compared to other exclusive motorcycles. The Ducati Panigale tricolore is going to be around $30k, CVO Harleys are often more than that, and these are just spinoffs of mass produced models. The Motus is actually cheaper than other bikes with similar production numbers, it's less than the new Buell, Bimotas, Indians, and numerous "custom" bikes. Ducati sold 1500 Desmosdici at almost 80k a pop.

I wouldn't be surprised if a good chunk of the first 200 went to Corvette guys who want a bike with a lsx based engine. If I wasn't trying to get my house paid off they'd already have my deposit. The way I look at it is that I'll never be able to afford a Ferrari or Lamborghini, but I can have a M/C that is just as exclusive and most likely faster than the exotic for less $ than a new Hyundai.

Having said all of that, I do think that the price will have to come down to BMW levels if Motus plans to grow the company and dealer network, but I'm betting it would take an unrealistic amount of sales to be able to drop the price by $10k per unit. Motus will have to continue to be innovative if they want to command a premium, and I don't see that happening if they stick to sport tourers. It would be interesting to see a business plan to know what their next step is.

Edit because I forgot: As someone coming from sportbikes, I have no desire for shaft or belt drive. I want the lightest, sportiest machine that is possible with hard bags and better egros than a pure sportbike. If the bike has more character than the typical inline 4, that's a big bonus.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #1028
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The difference between Ducati and Motus is that Ducati is an established company with brand recognition and a racing heritage. The Panigale is the flagship superbike from a company with many other cheaper options. Motus is an unknown and unrecognized company with very limited dealers trying to sell their entry level model for the price of a Panigale. Its going to be a tough road.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:27 PM   #1029
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CodyH I hear you that you want a sportbike with bags and practical ergos !
A lot of guys would love to buy such a bike but the Motus with a big and heavy and slow revving 1600 is definately not such a bike.
As Dave said Ducati is a company with a long and rich history and many wordchampionships in racing.
A lot of fanboys will gladly spend $30 on a top of the line Panigale...
But what kind of images can they get from a startup like MOTUS whose only bonus is that it is made in the U.S.A....?
I'll bet as money talks and B.S. walks in the end espicially in economic tough times as today I guy would spend maybe $1000 more for the made in usa label over a V4 Honda ST1300...
Anyways that is why all our shit is made in china today because nobody wants to pay more at the checkout despite what we are all saying...
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:42 PM   #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.0 View Post
The difference between Ducati and Motus is that Ducati is an established company with brand recognition and a racing heritage. The Panigale is the flagship superbike from a company with many other cheaper options. Motus is an unknown and unrecognized company with very limited dealers trying to sell their entry level model for the price of a Panigale. Its going to be a tough road.
I don't disagree, on both the brand recognition and the tough road for Motus, but I do think (hope?) that there is a sizable market for $30k motorcycles. Lots of people wrote checks for 6 figure choppers a few years ago. Maybe I'm blinded by my desire to see an American company be successful at building a modern bike.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #1031
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Originally Posted by Boxer-lust View Post
CodyH I hear you that you want a sportbike with bags and practical ergos !
A lot of guys would love to buy such a bike but the Motus with a big and heavy and slow revving 1600 is definately not such a bike.
If this engine is anything like some of the modified gm ls series that I've been around it'll be a great sport-touring powerplant, and the bike is around 150 lbs less than it's competition. You hit the nail on the head when you spoke of image, the Motus is not going to turn any heads a starbucks.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #1032
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Originally Posted by codyh View Post
I don't disagree, on both the brand recognition and the tough road for Motus, but I do think (hope?) that there is a sizable market for $30k motorcycles. Lots of people wrote checks for 6 figure choppers a few years ago. Maybe I'm blinded by my desire to see an American company be successful at building a modern bike.
If there was a worldwide "sport-touring fad", then maybe MOTUS would have something like the clone builders did during the worldwide "chopper fad".

MOTUS have a stupid name, no history, nothing. And, thier entry-level ST is priced like Ducati's top-line Superbike.

If these guys had come in with a price in the mid-twenties, they'd have the possiblity of snagging a few high-end BMW and Honda customers.

At $37k, they have an oddity that will be purchased by a few celebrities, then quickly relegated to the odd moto museum.

Sucks, really. At $25k, I thought they'd have something. At $37k, they have nothing.

While there is a bit of a market for $30k motorcycles, that market includes HD-based custom bikes, and race-bred Italian superbikes. It does not include sport-touring bikes.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:00 PM   #1033
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Originally Posted by codyh View Post
I don't disagree, on both the brand recognition and the tough road for Motus, but I do think (hope?) that there is a sizable market for $30k motorcycles. Lots of people wrote checks for 6 figure choppers a few years ago. Maybe I'm blinded by my desire to see an American company be successful at building a modern bike.
I hope you're right. I wanted to want one of these bikes. I live in Dallas and there are going to be local dealers. If this company and bikes are still around in a few years I would like to be able to consider it as a replacement for my multistrada. Thats probably not going to happen if they stay in the 30 to 40k range, at least not for me, so I guess there is always used.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:24 PM   #1034
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Originally Posted by Dave.0 View Post
I hope you're right. I wanted to want one of these bikes. I live in Dallas and there are going to be local dealers. If this company and bikes are still around in a few years I would like to be able to consider it as a replacement for my multistrada. Thats probably not going to happen if they stay in the 30 to 40k range, at least not for me, so I guess there is always used.
AF1 in Austin.

Serious sport touring on the cheap. Duc ST4s, freshen up the top end with cams & pistons. Yep.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:25 PM   #1035
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
If there was a worldwide "sport-touring fad", then maybe MOTUS would have something like the clone builders did during the worldwide "chopper fad".

MOTUS have a stupid name, no history, nothing. And, thier entry-level ST is priced like Ducati's top-line Superbike.

If these guys had come in with a price in the mid-twenties, they'd have the possiblity of snagging a few high-end BMW and Honda customers.

At $37k, they have an oddity that will be purchased by a few celebrities, then quickly relegated to the odd moto museum.

Sucks, really. At $25k, I thought they'd have something. At $37k, they have nothing.

While there is a bit of a market for $30k motorcycles, that market includes HD-based custom bikes, and race-bred Italian superbikes. It does not include sport-touring bikes.
Why do you keep mentioning that Motus has a stupid name? It's better than Rocker59!
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