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Old 03-23-2012, 12:43 PM   #1126
kpt4321
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Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
So I hope they make a fortune selling that motor to Indy Car or something. I'm not sure how they are going to sell those bikes.
I think, for a racing application, it's a turd of a motor. I will stand corrected if somebody makes a high-spec one making a whole bunch more power, but right now it's making specific output similar to Honda factory efforts at hopped-up economy cars (Civic Type R, ITR, etc) in the mid 90s.

Look at the other good bike motors out there: R1, ZX10R, S1000RR, making 180-200 hp from 1 liter. This makes less power with 60% more displacement. I don't see how that's going to be useful to anybody with racing intentions.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:03 PM   #1127
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
Look at the other good bike motors out there: R1, ZX10R, S1000RR, making 180-200 hp from 1 liter. This makes less power with 60% more displacement. I don't see how that's going to be useful to anybody with racing intentions.
Don't forget that Motus has GDI available and DI whether it be diesel or gas doesn't really start to shine until you use a turbo. I'd love to see the HP numbers from such an engine setup. I would image the engine would be darn near bullet proof so that it could endure a season of racing without going boom and be inexpensive enough to be placed in lower spec racers like the Formula Ford class cars.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:22 PM   #1128
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Yes, this is often said and repeated in US bike mags. Think of all the naked bikes they have in Europe that we don't get here.
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:53 PM   #1129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
I think, for a racing application, it's a turd of a motor. I will stand corrected if somebody makes a high-spec one making a whole bunch more power, but right now it's making specific output similar to Honda factory efforts at hopped-up economy cars (Civic Type R, ITR, etc) in the mid 90s.

Look at the other good bike motors out there: R1, ZX10R, S1000RR, making 180-200 hp from 1 liter. This makes less power with 60% more displacement. I don't see how that's going to be useful to anybody with racing intentions.
Do you really think the first release is the highest horsepower version?

I got some news for you - that engine is so under-stressed it isn't even worth considering. If they released it at 185 hp in version one, it's probably very capable of producing 225 - 250 hp reliably and without any drama for many 10's of thousands of miles.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:45 PM   #1130
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Do you really think the first release is the highest horsepower version?

I got some news for you - that engine is so under-stressed it isn't even worth considering. If they released it at 185 hp in version one, it's probably very capable of producing 225 - 250 hp reliably and without any drama for many 10's of thousands of miles.
I'm with Bueller here.

This should be a nearly indestructible motor. I read on reputable sources that pushrod Nascar motors, about 5.8 liters and carbs(!), can make around 900 hp without restrictor plates and rev limiters.

That makes a 1.6 motor easy in the 225-250 zone.

Hotroders have long been pushing simple pushrod v-8s waaaay past 100 hp/liter.

I seem to recall that a corvette engine weighs less than a much smaller displacement, but more complex, ferarri motor.

I really dig this motor on the Motus. I imagine part of their business model is to entice Polaris or, who knows, even Harley to buy them out. If "Bikers" don't want to ride no furrin' bikes, what better than a mini-smallblock?

There's a lot of bitching about the price here. Steve Jobs didn't care about price...he cared about performance :)

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Old 03-23-2012, 09:22 PM   #1131
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Originally Posted by McNeal View Post
Don't forget that Motus has GDI available and DI whether it be diesel or gas doesn't really start to shine until you use a turbo. I'd love to see the HP numbers from such an engine setup. I would image the engine would be darn near bullet proof so that it could endure a season of racing without going boom and be inexpensive enough to be placed in lower spec racers like the Formula Ford class cars.
Yeah, fancy valves and a big boost turbo and 1.6 liters is capably of 300hp....easily.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:57 PM   #1132
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Yeah - that is what I thought... those are all touring versions and they have a bunch of extra metal brakets and a centerstand - remove them and you've got around 480 lbs. A whole bunch of magazines around the world tested the bike over the last two years...

When you consider everything the MS1200 S has and the Motus does not it is just damn impressive what Ducati has been able to achieve.
Just make sure you take off the bags and brackets of the Motus before you put it on the scale...it's a sport TOURING bike for cry-eye. Why would you strip the Duc of the parts that make it apples-apples?
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:29 AM   #1133
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Just make sure you take off the bags and brackets of the Motus before you put it on the scale...it's a sport TOURING bike for cry-eye. Why would you strip the Duc of the parts that make it apples-apples?

I was going to mention it, but this thread has become so tedious with whining.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:36 PM   #1134
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So it will eventually be a great motor because 1.6 liters can make XXX power with boost, based on ratioing it down from larger engines?

There are a million ultra-reliable 1.6 liter engines out there that make great power with boost. They came in every Civic ever made in the 90s. What is so special about this one that makes everybody think it's going to be a magically amazing race motor?

I see no actual evidence that this engine is anything special, especially for an auto application.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:35 PM   #1135
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Originally Posted by kpt4321 View Post
So it will eventually be a great motor because 1.6 liters can make XXX power with boost, based on ratioing it down from larger engines?

There are a million ultra-reliable 1.6 liter engines out there that make great power with boost. They came in every Civic ever made in the 90s. What is so special about this one that makes everybody think it's going to be a magically amazing race motor?

I see no actual evidence that this engine is anything special, especially for an auto application.
Your comments speak quite a lot about your knowledge of engines. I'm not trying to pick on you, but if you think for one second this engine is going to have much more in common with a civic engine than burning gasoline to turn reciprocating motion into circular motion you are not going to understand what sets it apart. A Civic engine has a lot more in common with a CBR 1000 (which is to say not very much) than it does with the MOTUS V4.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:31 PM   #1136
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A more interesting question about the engine for me is how it will feel in road trim, and additionally how long it will last in road trim with how much upkeep.

A very significant component of my interest in this bike arises from the possibility the engine will offer the kind of emotionally evocative mechanical feel that I find very attractive in a bike engine and, bankers permitting, would be willing to pay for.

It is a subtle thing, some people don't notice or care about it, and not everybody feels the same way about the same engines. For example, plenty of people think Harleys have it, but Harley engines don't do much for me. In contrast, I love that loping pulse most Ducati motors seem to produce, but I know plenty of people don't pick that up or don't care.

It doesn't have to be a twin. I remember greatly enjoying the engine feel from a Honda Valkyrie flat-six I rode a decade ago.

Whatever: for me this is what makes the "boring" bits of road exciting.

So, IIRC I have ridden only one longitudinal crank V-4, and that was the Honda ST1100. I put several thousand kilometres on a couple of examples. For me, that engine didn't have it.

So why would the Motus motor have it? (For anybody?) Thoughts welcome. I know it's half a V8, and V8s tend to be beautifully balanced. But it's not a V8.

And why would it be unusually long-lived?

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Old 03-27-2012, 06:42 PM   #1137
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A more interesting question about the engine for me is how it will feel in road trim, and additionally how long it will last in road trim with how much upkeep.

A very significant component of my interest in this bike arises from the possibility the engine will offer the kind of emotionally evocative mechanical feel that I find very attractive in a bike engine and, bankers permitting, would be willing to pay for.

It is a subtle thing, some people don't notice or care about it, and not everybody feels the same way about the same engines. For example, plenty of people think Harleys have it, but Harley engines don't do much for me. In contrast, I love that loping pulse most Ducati motors seem to produce, but I know plenty of people don't pick that up or don't care.

It doesn't have to be a twin. I remember greatly enjoying the engine feel from a Honda Valkyrie flat-six I rode a decade ago.

Whatever: for me this is what makes the "boring" bits of road exciting.

So, IIRC I have ridden only one longitudinal crank V-4, and that was the Honda ST1100. I put several thousand kilometres on a couple of examples. For me, that engine didn't have it.

So why would the Motus motor have it? (For anybody?) Thoughts welcome. I know it's half a V8, and V8s tend to be beautifully balanced. But it's not a V8.

And why would it be unusually long-lived?

It'll "have it" because it is a 90 degree config with wedge combustion chambers. Though there are more efficient designs out there, if you like the Ducati sound you're going to love the sound this engine makes. Just listen to some of the youtube dyno runs. No, it doesn't have a single crankpin and won't lope like a Ducati - it'll have its own character. I can't wait to see/hear one in person, though I'm not a purchaser.

Almost all production engines from reputable manufacturers are now exceptionally long lived. The combination of much better lubricants and much more precise control over mixture, injection events, and temperatures has really increased engine life. Of course sometimes they still get it wrong and stuff fails, but it happens much less than it used to. And the architecture the Katech engine is based on is pretty well proven.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:54 PM   #1138
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Of course sometimes they still get it wrong and stuff fails, but it happens much less than it used to. And the architecture the Katech engine is based on is pretty well proven.
Didn't the race the C5R for an entire season with without a breakdown?

...and aint sprint races, that is like the 24 hours at Le Mans and such. Its safe to say that if Katech is behind it, its reliability should be expected to be (at least) par.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:14 PM   #1139
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If the squish is tight, two valve wedge heads can make prodigious torque as the Motus does.

There was a Chevy based V-twin in the late '70s but i can't remember the name.
It even used a Chevy cam chain cover.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:40 PM   #1140
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Will Polaris buy MOTUS and keep the dream alive?
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