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Old 08-27-2004, 03:38 PM   #16
knary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruskie
"Attacking"? They are very talented at what they do. And I know that the "market" will dictate what they are paid. I can still state my opinon that they are paid too much and that many are not what you would call very nice people. that said, they got spanked
They are not unique at their trade and that was proven at the Olympics.
I'd be very interested to know whether or not they were not paid through some percs to go to Greece.
They are almost unique in their trade. We're still talking about hundreds of excellent players in the world, not thousands or millions.

The "attack" comment wasn't necessarily specific to you. Lots bitch about how much pro players get paid...and then proceed to sit and watch game after game.
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Old 08-27-2004, 03:45 PM   #17
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Team USA Basketball needs to not just pick superstars, but role players: i.e., some freaking shooters.
What style defense do most Olympic teams play?
Zone.
How does one disrupt a zone?
Hit shots from the outside.
I suspect they've learned a lesson and will invite some 3-point boys to the tryouts next time around.
I hope.
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Old 08-27-2004, 04:03 PM   #18
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I enjoy watching the NBA pros play every now and then, but every time I watch I am astounded by what passes for legitimate play. Players routinely travel when driving to the basket. Body contact resembles professional football. Palming the ball is common. I assume that players are allowed to do this because it makes for more "exciting" play, but it seems as though it bastardizes the game into something closer to cheap entertainment (think Roller Derby).

I suspect that the failure of these NBA stars to perfom well in the Olympics is due, in part, to the fact that these players simply don't know what to do when they can't travel, double dribble and muscle their way through their opposition on their way to the basket. Held to "clean" play, they're lost. Its almost like being forced to play a different game. They might be able to adapt if they took the time, but why would they bother? They don't really care about the Olympics except as a sidelight to what they are really all about - becoming famous and wealthy.

This Olympics has proven that to win at Olympic basketball, you need to come in with a team of top players who know how to play this kind of basketball, who play together as a team, and who really care about winning. Sounds like we need a real national team ... but who would volunteer for this kind of duty when they can go into the NBA and make big bucks?
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Old 08-27-2004, 04:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkmoon
I enjoy watching the NBA pros play every now and then, but every time I watch I am astounded by what passes for legitimate play. Players routinely travel when driving to the basket. Body contact resembles professional football. Palming the ball is common. I assume that players are allowed to do this because it makes for more "exciting" play, but it seems as though it bastardizes the game into something closer to cheap entertainment (think Roller Derby).

I suspect that the failure of these NBA stars to perfom well in the Olympics is due, in part, to the fact that these players simply don't know what to do when they can't travel, double dribble and muscle their way through their opposition on their way to the basket. Held to "clean" play, they're lost. Its almost like being forced to play a different game. They might be able to adapt if they took the time, but why would they bother? They don't really care about the Olympics except as a sidelight to what they are really all about - becoming famous and wealthy.

This Olympics has proven that to win at Olympic basketball, you need to come in with a team of top players who know how to play this kind of basketball, who play together as a team, and who really care about winning. Sounds like we need a real national team ... but who would volunteer for this kind of duty when they can go into the NBA and make big bucks?
Word that
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Old 08-27-2004, 04:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Twilight Error
Wasn't a fair game - they were playing 9 against 1.
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Old 08-27-2004, 06:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Rider
Team USA Basketball needs to not just pick superstars, but role players: i.e., some freaking shooters.
What style defense do most Olympic teams play?
Zone.
How does one disrupt a zone?
Hit shots from the outside.
I suspect they've learned a lesson and will invite some 3-point boys to the tryouts next time around.
I hope.


Who ever assembled this particular team is an idiot. All they needed to open their offense is a few outside shooting role players.
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Old 08-27-2004, 09:20 PM   #22
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Years ago I played on a State Championship team. (roughly 3rd string) In fact, our coach was famous for fielding state championship teams. He was always in contention and won it about 3-4 times that decade.

As far as I was concerned, he hardly coached. We barely practiced set plays. We shot baskets and scrimmaged largely uncoached during our practice sessions.

All these years, I wondered why his teams were so sucessful. This Olympics has helped me understand why. He let us/made us play as a team and kept our egos out of it.



More could be said, but it would be largely B.S. on my part....
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Old 08-27-2004, 09:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkmoon
I enjoy watching the NBA pros play every now and then, but every time I watch I am astounded by what passes for legitimate play. Players routinely travel when driving to the basket. Body contact resembles professional football. Palming the ball is common. I assume that players are allowed to do this because it makes for more "exciting" play, but it seems as though it bastardizes the game into something closer to cheap entertainment (think Roller Derby).

I suspect that the failure of these NBA stars to perfom well in the Olympics is due, in part, to the fact that these players simply don't know what to do when they can't travel, double dribble and muscle their way through their opposition on their way to the basket. Held to "clean" play, they're lost. Its almost like being forced to play a different game. They might be able to adapt if they took the time, but why would they bother? They don't really care about the Olympics except as a sidelight to what they are really all about - becoming famous and wealthy.

This Olympics has proven that to win at Olympic basketball, you need to come in with a team of top players who know how to play this kind of basketball, who play together as a team, and who really care about winning. Sounds like we need a real national team ... but who would volunteer for this kind of duty when they can go into the NBA and make big bucks?
NBA = Street ball magnified. Look at me, look at me, look at me. Although I do see it changing somewhat for the better, particularly with defenses.
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Old 08-27-2004, 10:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knary
BUT these particular players still CHOSE to go over and represent their country.

FWIW, I don't think professional athletes are "over paid". You may not value what they do, but obviously someone does. They're not stealing anything from anyone. They offer a product that the general public obviously wants. Attacking the players for living the american dream is nonsense.

I agree with this...

TeamUSA should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they could play competitively by mashing together players without sufficient practice and playtime... With only 2.5 months offseason, I don't know why any PRO player would compromise their revenue stream to survive the wear and tear of the Olympics... I think they should choose the winning NCAA tournament team to represent the USA... those kids are amazing...
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Old 08-27-2004, 10:56 PM   #25
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Personally I think this particular group tried hard.

Their problem is that they don't know how to play. Just a bunch of good athletes doing playground / NBA one-on-one stuff. Passing, ball-movement, defense, shooting, spacing, positioning, none of those skills were evident.

We'd be better off with the NCAA champions representing us, or any of the NBA Division champions. "All-star" pickup squads don't cut it against the international teams they're playing now.
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Old 08-27-2004, 11:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert
Personally I think this particular group tried hard.

Their problem is that they don't know how to play. Just a bunch of good athletes doing playground / NBA one-on-one stuff. Passing, ball-movement, defense, shooting, spacing, positioning, none of those skills were evident.

We'd be better off with the NCAA champions representing us, or any of the NBA Division champions. "All-star" pickup squads don't cut it against the international teams they're playing now.
Bert, I'm going to agree with you...difficult to play a team game when you are not a team.
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Old 08-28-2004, 11:25 AM   #27
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Lots of nonsense posted in this thread, IMHO.

1/ The team selection process was flawed. The team they finally sent was too young, had no outside shooters, and couldn't play defense. Larry Brown was vocal in criticizing a process that handed him a team he knew to be flawed. I reckon the selection process will be the first thing that gets changed.

2/ No basketball team representing the United States will ever have the cohesiveness of some of the other national teams currently playing. If anything, the other countries are likely to drift towards a less cohesive state. Anyone who's familiar with international soccer will understand why. The key is having enough time and games for the national team to jell. But there are enormous conflicts between the needs of the professional clubs who supply the players, and the national teams. Bottom line, clubs will only give up the players for a limited amunt of time. As pro leagues become increasingly successful in other nations, and the money involved gets bigger, there's a good chance they'll have the same problem that exists here.

3/ Absolutely we should recognize the NBA players who volunteered to play in the Olympics. But let's not go too far. Anyone read Larry Brown's rants about how the players were trying to nonchalant their way through games? Many of the guys apparently thought they would win just by showing up. Not much to respect about that kind of an attitude.

4/ The paucity of outside shooting is something that's been said of the NBA game for years. Players are obsessed with the drive to the hoop and the jam. It is my personal hope that one outcome of the Olympic failures will be a change in the NBA game, over time. But I'm afraid it's a forlorn hope.

5/ Before we get too carried away by saying that NBA players can't play as a team, let's remember who won the NBA crown this year. And let's remember the style of ball they played. Has everyone already forgotten the praise heaped on Larry Brown for getting his Pistons to play the game the right way - as a team?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 08-28-2004, 12:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by wxwax
5/ Before we get too carried away by saying that NBA players can't play as a team, let's remember who won the NBA crown this year. And let's remember the style of ball they played. Has everyone already forgotten the praise heaped on Larry Brown for getting his Pistons to play the game the right way - as a team?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I'd prefer the NCAA champions represent the US. Failing that I'd settle for the NBA champions. No doubt at all in my mind the Pistons would have blown away any team they faced - including the gaggle we had representing us.

The 'all-star' approach throwing a bunch of strangers together doesn't work any more.
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Old 08-28-2004, 05:26 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Rider
Team USA Basketball needs to not just pick superstars, but role players: i.e., some freaking shooters.
What style defense do most Olympic teams play?
Zone.
How does one disrupt a zone?
Hit shots from the outside.
I suspect they've learned a lesson and will invite some 3-point boys to the tryouts next time around.
I hope.

Rider's right. But one additional point that I've been saying from the beginning. And today, an Argentinian player said it for me.

"The NBA is played with rules that highlight individual talent," Manu Ginobili.

That statement is completely true. And why is it so? Follow the $, grasshopper. Individual superstars and showboating bring fans. Team play doesn't.

Hell, doesn't the NBA have rules AGAINST a zone defense? Gimme a break. The rest of the world including the Olympics have rules to favor a team sport. We play an individual game. So we lose.

Duh!
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Old 08-28-2004, 06:00 PM   #30
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What about the Baseball?
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