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Old 10-17-2009, 01:02 PM   #46
Kentucky
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Location: Daytona Beach, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk
So today I had time to shim the needles in my carbs. I used the instructions posted back on page 1 (I think) of this thread. They were great, including the Suzuki part numbers for the shims which I was able to order from bikebandit.com and get a couple days later.

The difference was huge. Now I can cruise along at light throttle at 3000 rpm without the surging. It's smooth as glass. I'm still getting a little bit of popping through the exhaust on closed-throttle decel but it goes away if I barely crack the throttle. I think that I'm going to upgrade the pilot jets to size 38 and hopefully that will take care of it. I feel like I'm very close now to having it run the way I want it to run.

I think that when the slides are down and the needle seated and it's just on the pilot circuit, it's still a bit lean. Hopefully 38 pilots will address that satisfactorily.

I also noticed that on a long closed-throttle 4th gear decel from freeway speed to stopped, it did a long-smooth pop-free decel until it hit about 2500 rpm and then BLAM through the exhaust. What I think is happening (and I could be wrong as I'm no carb expert) is that it's a little rich on the overrun down to a point, probably where the pilot circuit kicks in at which point it goes lean and introduces enough air into the exhaust to explosively burn whatever unburned fuel is in there at that point.

So I'll update when I get a chance to get the new pilots installed. I think that will save me from having to spend $80 on a DynoJet or Factory Pro carb kit.
Mine does this exact same thing. I like the burble on decel but the loud "POW" hacks me off. It does not do it often but when it does it is under the exact circumstances you describe. Looking forward to hearing what the results of your efforts are.
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Old 10-17-2009, 02:07 PM   #47
soboy
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Very nice W, great find! I came so close to picking up a 2001 model with 600 miles on it a couple of years ago but was a day too late. I'll have one some day.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:26 AM   #48
Kentucky
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Do you have any updates on the notorious POP?
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:11 AM   #49
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Purty! My favorite of the retros by far.

I know nothing about W650 carbs...but a loud BLAM can be a result of rich over-run combined with an air leak somewhere in the exhaust. Look for soot around the slip joints. Sealing any potential leaks could help with your problem.
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:52 PM   #50
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I have 24K on my 00 and I still love it. It has been acting up a bit lately but I think she is just mad at me for riding the Bonnie.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:07 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceManSpiff
Purty! My favorite of the retros by far.

I know nothing about W650 carbs...but a loud BLAM can be a result of rich over-run combined with an air leak somewhere in the exhaust. Look for soot around the slip joints. Sealing any potential leaks could help with your problem.

The stock pipes on the "W" are one piece and joined at the cross over ahead of the rear wheel. The "W" will back fire from time to time if you use the gearbox to slow it down. Most of the time on mine it is just minor poping but some times she will let out a big one.
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Old 10-31-2009, 05:49 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky
Do you have any updates on the notorious POP?
Barry
Not yet, I just got the new pilot jets in the mail the other day so if I have a chance this weekend I'll try to get them installed and see what happens.
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:37 AM   #53
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The round trip from Kentucky to Los Angeles is in the record books and for anyone who may be interested, the 16 tooth countershaft sprocket change is simply too tall in my case. With the National Cycle Plexifairing III, the E45 GIVI bags and the subsequent weight of my travel gear the bike needs a lower gear. Across the West with a stiff headwind I was in 4th gear at 65 mph and 3/4 throttle many times for long stretches. Now that I am home I have been doing local two lane riding and with no luggage 4th gear is better than 5th below 70 mph.

I'm thinking that Kaw got the gearing right. It spins about 5 grand at 80 and 4 grand at 70 with stock gearing but the fuel mileage is between 45 and 50. With the taller gear the mileage is down to about 35. I had 4500 miles to experiment and even keeping it spinning at 4500 rpm it wouldn't get out of the 30's. This makes the 4 gallon tank too small for touring. I'm going back to the 15 tooth countershaft for a few thousand miles and reevaluate the standard gearing. Perhaps two teeth smaller on the back would be better than one on the front if I choose to attempt another gearing change.

I am really enjoying having an open W thread on Road Warriors. These bikes are really special motorcycles as anyone who has ever owned one can attest. It was serious fun riding this bike out to the West coast. I am looking forward to putting a bunch of miles on the little Bonnevill wannabe.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:04 AM   #54
rider929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider929
I have 24K on my 00 and I still love it. It has been acting up a bit lately but I think she is just mad at me for riding the Bonnie.
Easy fix. The pos terminal on the battery had vibrated loose. The little "W" continues to impress me. The only problem I have ever had with it I likely caused my self. We were going for a ride today but it is raining hard, bummer.
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:22 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky
Across the West with a stiff headwind I was in 4th gear at 65 mph and 3/4 throttle many times for long stretches.
Thanks for the info. My one question would be how the speedo error enters into the discussion. I know my stock gearing riding at 70 on my local highway has people passing me left and right. In my car 70 is going with the flow of traffic, so I know the W speedo is probably off a good 5-7 mph.

Honestly I can't imagine making that long a trip on my dub. My hands are vibrated asleep after 70 miles and my butt soon after. Maybe it is the changes to the handlebars (euro spec) and seat (corbin). I'm going to try some bar-end weights to see if that helps.
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Old 11-01-2009, 11:06 AM   #56
jwdub
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Hockygoon,

I bought my 2001 W650 this summer and had the same vibration issues as you are experiencing. I replaced the bars with Bikemaster Daytona's and used shims to increase the effective bar diameter from 7/8 to 1 inch and then installed HVMP 17oz universal X-Heavy barend weights ( www.hvmp.com ). Before, vibration in the bars was uncomfortable from 3000 - 4000 rpm. Now there is little vibration in the bars at any rpm --- what a dramatic difference!

These HVMP bar ends were $62 + shipping. They are nice looking and they really work. The Bikemaster Daytonas can be had for under $20.

Good Luck, it's my favorite backroad bike now.
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:37 PM   #57
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OK so today I finally got around to installing the #38 pilot jets (replacing the stock #35).

I was able to do this with the carbs in place even tho some parts were tricky. I was also able to do it without losing any parts beneath the starter but it was close.

Accessing a couple of the float bowl screws was very tricky, wound up using a 1/4" drive screwdriver bit in a 1/4" socket mounted to a ratchet and VERY CAREFULLY loosening so as not to round out the heads.

Also disconnecting the accelerator pump linkage was tricky due to the tiny cotter pin and small washers that will fall out once you get the pin out. I found the trick was to hold the throttle open which extended the accelerator pump arm down far enough to remove the cotter pin. I was able to take it apart myself and just let the washer fall onto a cloth over the starter area but putting it back together required a 3rd hand to hold the throttle open while I put the washer and cotter pin back in - grab a friend for that part.

OK so after putting it all back together I did some runs to try and dial it in. I started with a baseline of 2 turns out left side and 3 turns out right side. I tried this because when I first removed the caps over the idle mixture screws, the left side was turned in a full turn more than the right side from the factory. I suspect this was owing to the more tortured path that intake air has to take to get to the left carb. Already the bike ran noticeably better with much less popping on decel but still was getting some and some bigger bangs now and then.

Anyway did some more trial and error runs around my neighborhood, tweaking the settings, riding again, etc. and it looks like 2.5 turns out on both sides is the sweet spot. If I am at high rpm and real quick chop the throttle I still get a subtle pop pop right away but then it doesn't do it any more as the bike decels. If I do a smooth throttle close it doesn't pop at all. I tried real hard but I could not make it do the huge BLAM! backfire on a long decel from high speed.

Of course by the time I had got this dialed in the bike was completely and fully warmed up so next time I start from cold we'll see if what is perfect when fully warmed up is a little too lean when cold.

But I'm much happier now with the way the bike runs. Nice and smooth, no hesitation or bogging anywhere, no lean surging, and no rude noises.

So, #38 pilot jets and shimmed needles seem to work for me with a baffle-ectomied stock exhaust. YMMV.
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Old 11-01-2009, 06:27 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeygoon
Thanks for the info. My one question would be how the speedo error enters into the discussion. I know my stock gearing riding at 70 on my local highway has people passing me left and right. In my car 70 is going with the flow of traffic, so I know the W speedo is probably off a good 5-7 mph.

Honestly I can't imagine making that long a trip on my dub. My hands are vibrated asleep after 70 miles and my butt soon after. Maybe it is the changes to the handlebars (euro spec) and seat (corbin). I'm going to try some bar-end weights to see if that helps.
I had two different state troopers radar me to check accuracy before and after. With stock gearing it is about 10% optomistic. Indicated 80 is about 72. Indicated 70 is about 63. With the 16 tooth countershaft sprocket it is within two miles per hour optimistic. Indicated 70 is 68. I like that it took care of that.

I believe that I need either the stock 15 tooth countershaft and a 37 on the rear or the 16 with a 41. One tooth on the front did appear to equal 4 teeth on the back. Two teeth on the rear is what I'm going to try next. The only problem is to get a black one like stock which I like, it looks like I will need to send my sprocket off to Cali and have one made. If anyone knows where I can buy a black 41 tooth sprocket I would love to have that info.

Today I rode about 200 miles with no bags and no luggage. Just the National Cycle Plexistar II windshield. I'm still too tall with the 16 tooth sprocket. I will go back to stock until I can locate the required rear sprocket.

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Old 11-04-2009, 08:55 AM   #59
Kentucky
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Went back to the stock 15 tooth countershaft today. Thinking about putting the big GIVI bags back on and making a run to Daytona later this month to see if my fuel mileage will come back up. I think two teeth larger on the back with the stocker on the front could be just right. I'll report back when the Florida trip is completed.

I love this bike. They got the exhaust note just right.
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Old 11-04-2009, 09:27 AM   #60
rider929
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They are a lot of fun. I am considering bobbing mine. I won't cut it up but put the motor in a new rigid frame so that I can switch it back later if needed.
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