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Old 06-24-2011, 11:26 AM   #661
husqzilla
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W650 Cockpit

A shot of the cockpit:



Those are the low handlebars with replaced cables and brake line. The windscreen is a Puig. These items and the H&B rack system in my previous post all came from Martin at www.W650shop.de.

Left to right:

Longer-stemmed mirrors.

A bicycle water bottle cage zip tied to the turn signal stalk at the base and the clutch cable housing at the top. I carry a 20oz bottle on trips.

Mounts for a full-size National windshield. I made a 1200 mile trip recently with the Puig screen and it performed well enough that the big National screen may not ever go back on the bike.

A red plastic earplug case velcroed to the top of the fork tube.

A Garmin Zumo base on a RAM Mount. I'd be lost without my Zumo. Sometimes I get lost with it.

A Sigma BC 906 bicycle computer. It gives trip distance, trip time (moving time only), average speed, maximum speed, current speed, clock, and total odometer (can be reset). This is a wired version. I JBWelded a tiny magnet to the brake disk and the pickup unit is attached to the right fork tube.

Immediately to the right of the tach is a small bottle of STA-BIL Marine Formula that I carry in a piece of plastic pipe zip-tied to the handlebar. One ounce per fillup keeps the nasty fuel gremlins at bay. I noticed on a recent trip down south some gas stations were prominently advertising that they sold 100% gasoline. Having the bottle right there makes the difference between using it at every fillup and being too lazy to dig it out of the sidecase.

Even with three speed indicators (Kaw speedo, Sigma, Zumo) I sometimes need a reminder to slow down - hence the armadillo. Mr. Armadillo also wears his protective gear all the time too.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:38 AM   #662
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Husqzilla, thanks for the photos! It's hard to find good shots of the HB rack system installed on the bike.

Those side cases look great on there too. Suits the style of the bike, looks like the old Krauser cases you'd see on R75s.

Hey where do you guys get your mail order OEM parts? I've been using BikeBandit but their prices aren't too great. Anybody got a good Internet-capable dealer who does mail order and who is below list?
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:16 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Hey where do you guys get your mail order OEM parts? I've been using BikeBandit but their prices aren't too great. Anybody got a good Internet-capable dealer who does mail order and who is below list?
I've purchased OEM stuff (like my rear fender) from Rocky Mountain. Priced below MSRP and they ship fast.

Here is the link...
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/
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Old 06-26-2011, 12:19 PM   #664
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Hey guys. I'm stuck in Great Barrington MA with what appears to be a dead coil. Can anyone look up in the manual how to electrically test the coil and post up the info?

Also if anyone happens to have a spare coil in Great Barrington, hit me up. :)
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Old 06-26-2011, 03:22 PM   #665
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Ignition coil inspection
- remove the ignition coil
- with the plug cap attached, measure the arcing distance with a suitable commercially available coil tester to check the condition of the ignition coil.

WARNING:
To avoid extremely high voltage shocks, do not touch the coil body or wires.

Ignition Coil Arching Distance
Standard: 8mm (0.31 in) or more
-If the distance reading is less than the specified value, the ignition coil or spark plug cap is defective.
-Remove the spark plug caps to measure the arcing distance again.
1. If the arcing distance is subnormal as before, replace the ignition coil
2. If the arcing distance is now normal, replace the spark plug cap.

Note:
If the coil test is unavailable, the internal resistance of the ignition coil can be checked with a hand tester. However this inspection is not sufficient to determine whether or not the coil is defective.

-Remove the spark plug caps and measure the resistance as shown:
1. Set the hand tester to the x 1 ohm range and measure [A] the resitance of the primary windings
2. Set the hand tester to the x 1K ohm range and measure [B] the resitance of the secondary windings

Standard:
Primary windings: 2.6-3.2 ohm
Secondary windings: 13.5-16.5 K ohm


Sorry can't help with a coil.
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Old 06-26-2011, 03:30 PM   #666
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I believe that is what you need. I scan the pages if you need the diagrams, and have a way to read .pdfs.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:55 PM   #667
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Thanks hockeygoon. Looks like my coil is toast. I called up JD and ran it by him and he concurs.

There is a powersports shop in town which I will hit up as soon as they open tomorrow. Hopefully they have some spare coils to get me going. I gotta suspect this is the same part as the Ninja 250 but even if they don't have a direct replacement, any coil should do.
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:53 AM   #668
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Does anyone know a good source for a carb rebuild kit for the W's Keihin CVK34 carbs? None of the online places I found have the W listed but I have to believe Kawi used this carb on other bikes (or some other manufacturer did).
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:23 AM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Does anyone know a good source for a carb rebuild kit for the W's Keihin CVK34 carbs? None of the online places I found have the W listed but I have to believe Kawi used this carb on other bikes (or some other manufacturer did).

I've bought OEM parts from these guys before but in looking at the Carb parts section no rebuild kit that I can see but you can piece together the parts you want to replace.

Bike Bandit:

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot...m4628#sch76168
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:53 AM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jerk View Post
Does anyone know a good source for a carb rebuild kit for the W's Keihin CVK34 carbs? None of the online places I found have the W listed but I have to believe Kawi used this carb on other bikes (or some other manufacturer did).
The float O-ring is part # 92055-1518
The float valve is part number 16030-1057

Those may be the only parts you need to take the carb apart and clean it up and re-assemble.

If you need other parts, you can still find the OEM parts schematic and listings several places. Usually the W650 is listed as the EJ650A2 (2000 model) or EJ650A3 (2001 model).

Here is a link to a schematic on Bike Bandits site. They do list it as a W650.

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot...m4628#sch76168

I noticed that Rocky Mountain parts no longer shows parts for the W650. That must be recent, because I got carb parts and a rear fender from them in March of this year. I'm afraid parts will be getting harder to find soon...
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:51 PM   #671
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My tale of woe

So this past weekend I decided to take my W on a longer trip. Got together with lasermaster and we rode last Friday night from Brooklyn up to Greenfield, MA. Stayed the night at a friend's place because it was kinda rainy and nasty that night.

Saturday we did some touring of western MA, the Mohawk Trail up to North Adams, then over Mt. Greylock and down into Lanesboro to set up camp.

Touring that part of MA on the W was sublime. Those are just the kind of roads the bike was made for and especially with the Race Tech and Hagon suspension, I had a huge grin on my face the whole time.

Just after we set up camp (and thankfully a tarp) there was a deluge. I later came to think this was associated with the problems that followed but now I have my doubts.

Shortly after the deluge ended, we fired up the bikes and headed a couple miles down the road for a beer run. The bike ran fine on this trip.

Coming out of the store after making our purchase, the W didn't want to start, which, as anyone who owns a W knows, is very uncharacteristic. Using the starter button mine always starts in what seems like less than one revolution when the engine is warmed up. Instead, it just cranked and cranked but didn't fire. This was associated with the smell of raw gas.

Eventually it did fire and settled into a normal idle but would sputter and bog when adding throttle. After a few more cycles of starting and stalling and sputtering and bogging, it finally started and ran normally so we were able to run down the road to get some dinner.

After dinner, same thing - didn't want to start but would start with throttle held wide open. More sputtering and misfiring on the way back to camp.

Packed it up for the night and figured I'd check things out in the morning.

I had begun to suspect a fuel issue, perhaps a clogged jet or something or perhaps water in the gas from the rain (maybe it was leaking past the cap gasket). We had, about 70 miles earlier, filled up at a no-name gas station on the Mohawk Trail but I didn't have any issues afterward until we had done about 70 miles or so. Lasermaster filled up at the same place and didn't have any issues, but his bike has FI and presumably a better (meaning existing) filtering system. So I figured I could have gotten some junk in my float bowls clogging up some jets.

Next morning I took the tank off and bled a little fuel out of the petcock on the theory of water in the gas. Also drained the float bowl that I could get to but the gas looked clean and clear.

Got the bike started, with difficulty, and went to breakfast. Had a little sputtering but made it all right. After breakfast, big problems starting the bike. More of the same. Eventually got it running normally - it was idling fine as I was gearing up, then as soon as I rocked it off the center stand, it died. More of the same cranking and sputtering and stalling and finally got it going again and got on the road.

We rode from Lanesboro all the way to Great Barrington with the bike acting up most of the way. There were moments where it was running normally, moments where it seemed to run fine but I could tell it felt slightly down on power, and moments where it would just die entirely and would suddenly regain power (engine power, not electrical power) just before stopping entirely. It was an interesting ride to say the least.

Coming into the town of Great Barrington, slowing for a traffic light, the engine died when I pulled in the clutch and would not restart after much cranking and holding the throttle open. Again associated with the smell of raw gas.

Pulled the bike up on the sidewalk and broke out the tools. I had originally suspected a fuel issue but the way it suddenly died coming into town and the way it cranked without even a hint of catching made me begin to suspect an electrical issue instead, especially since I could smell gas when cranking which made me think I had good fuel supply.

I checked out the battery and found that the ground terminal was a bit loose but apparently that wasn't causing much of an issue since the bike would still crank fine. I tightened that up. Battery voltage was good, I had +12V to the primary circuit on the coil, so I pulled the spark plugs, put them into their wires and grounded the plugs to the engine to check spark. While cranking I observed what I then thought to be a very weak orange spark instead of the strong blue/white spark I expected to see. At this point I suspect a bad coil. I also knew that the symptoms of a bad coil were very similar to what I had been seeing and that you could see a weak spark with the plugs in free air but it was possible that with the plugs installed and operating under cylinder pressure, a no spark situation could exist under those conditions. While doing the troubleshooting I noticed that the area under the left side cover was damp with some fluid but I was so busy troubleshooting that the implications of that didn't register with me and I didn't pay it any attention.

Once I thought I had a bad coil, there wasn't much else I could do. Everything in Great Barrington was closed that day (it was a Sunday). There was a powersports shop in town that would be opened the next day so I decided to put a post out on ADV to see if anyone local could help and if not, I'd stay in town until Monday and hit up the powersports shop to find a coil and get me going. Lasermaster stuck around for a while but he had to be back in the city for jury duty on Monday morning. So we had a couple beers, I got a room in the Days Inn in town, we stashed the bike in a relatively safe place and he headed back to Brooklyn.

The next morning I walked down to the powersports shop and they unfortunately were out of stock of the universal coils that they usually had in stock. They didn't have any other bike-specific coils either. I was considering going to NAPA and buying two automotive coils and rigging up a wiring harness but speedo66 generously offered to take the known good coil off his W and bring it up from Westchester so I could get home. I was confident in my diagnosis so I accepted his offer and a couple hours later he was in town bearing gifts.

He gave me a ride down to my bike, I swapped the good coil in and then: crankcrankcrankcrank no start. Strong smell of gas. Shit. Tried it a few more times and could get it to start sometimes but within a few seconds of starting it would begin to sputter and misfire and bog down and eventually stall.

At this point, being frustrated and probably not thinking too clearly under the effects of the heat, dehydration and time pressure, I decided I must have a multiple failure and still had crap in the carbs. So I dropped the float bowls only to find that they were clean inside. Pulled the jets out, thought at the time that they appeared plugged but then again, could have just been a little bit of fuel bubbled inside making them appear plugged. Blew the jets out, reinstalled. No change. For whatever reason I neglected to check out the floats or needle valves at this point.

Somewhere around this point I finally noticed that there was gas dripping from the airbox on the left side behind the side cover. This gas would only appear when cranking or when the petcock was turned to Prime. Took the air filter elements out and they were saturated with gas. The answer at this point should have been obvious as there's only one way raw liquid gasoline could be getting into the airbox.

I belatedly remembered the airbox drain hoses and saw that the drain plugs were installed. When I removed them, a whole lot of liquid gas came pouring out of the airbox drains. And when cranking the engine, liquid gas would drip out of them.

Had a little phone consultation with Local Hero Mechanic JD who got me calmed down and thinking logically again.

He had me run the bike with the tank off so that it was only running on what was in the float bowls. When I did this, the engine started up immediately and idled normally. And it ran fine until it began to starve from running out of fuel in the float bowls.

When I put the tank back on, suddenly I had liquid gas running out of the air cleaner again.

The answer at this point was pretty clear. One or both of the needle valves were either sticking or bad, or perhaps I had a bad float but either way, a needle valve (probably only one given the laws of probability) was not closing and was overwhelming a float bowl with fuel which was leaking into the airbox.

At this point it was getting late and I had a decision to make. I had to get back to Brooklyn that night to be in for work the next day. I could take the carbs back apart and investigate, possibly being able to fix the problem (if it was merely a piece of junk in the fuel keeping the needle valve from closing or seating properly) but if a replacement part was required I'd be stuck. Speedo66 had to get back to Westchester and offered a ride but then I would have had to leave behind my camping gear, clothes, etc., which I really didn't feel comfortable doing. I found out that there was an Amtrak train that left from Hudson, NY (about 40 minutes away) at 7:40 pm and went to Penn Station. There was also a Metro North train that departed from a town about an hour south of Great Barrington that left about an hour later.

I decided to go with the sure bet and come back to fix the bike another day. I put the bike back together, grabbed all my gear and caught a cab from Great Barrington to Hudson. The cab driver was super cool and got me there in plenty of time - it was shaping up to be close. The taxi dispatcher checked online and found out that the train was delayed by 20 minutes so that bought us enough time to easily make it.

Turned out that the train wound up being delayed by an hour and a half but I made it home.

My plan this Saturday is to go back up with two new needle jets and a float in hand to finally get this bike fixed up and ride it back home.

It seems clear what the problem is and what it probably always was, though it certainly seems to have become more severe as the miles went on. It's quite possible that I misdiagnosed the bad coil entirely. When I get home I intend to swap my old coil back in to check. At this point, I suspect the bike will run fine on the old coil.

The worst part about this is that now speedo66's bike is without a coil for a few days because of my screw-up. He really went out of his way to help out and I wound up costing him a lot of time and putting his bike out of commission for a few days because I fucked up in my diagnosis. Sorry Steve.

Also this incident has got me thinking about the troubles that could be caused by bad/dirty fuel on a long trip so I think I'll be adding in one of those in-line fuel filters between the tank and the carbs. I don't know yet that this incident was caused by junk in the fuel but it certainly could be. And I don't want to have any repeats.

So wish me luck this Saturday. If any of you MA W650 guys want to rally, I'll be in Great Barrington getting my hands dirty.

And no I would not hesitate to take the W on a long trip again. Once I know it's fixed of course.
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Old 06-29-2011, 06:59 PM   #672
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Motorcycle Breakdown Karma

Why is it that the further away from home/tools/manual/etc. that a breakdown occurs, the further off the initial diagnosis turns out to be? At least now you know what you're up against. Good luck in getting it back on the road and home.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:57 AM   #673
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Sorry to hear about your troubles, Jerk (been dying to call someone that for a while ).

I love this thread (as well as the one on the tu250 in thumpers section) but as a W owner, it's a good idea to be a member of and ask help from

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/W650riders/

as well. More of an old school board, but has almost all possible info on w's. It has decent traffic, you are also more likely to find local members when you're a dire situation of sorts.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:41 AM   #674
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......The worst part about this is that now speedo66's bike is without a coil for a few days because of my screw-up. He really went out of his way to help out and I wound up costing him a lot of time and putting his bike out of commission for a few days because I fucked up in my diagnosis. Sorry Steve.
No problem. It was a great day for a ride, and my first semi-long journey on my relatively new to me Wee. I am now officially very happy with the Wee.

Being coil-less doesn't leave me bike-less. I'd do it again in a minute, just wish I was better at diagnosing myself.

My only suggestion would be to get a ride up there with someone with a trailer, just in case.
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:17 PM   #675
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On the brighter side, here are some pics from the trip before shit started getting weird.











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The Jerk screwed with this post 10-15-2011 at 04:10 PM
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