ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-06-2014, 10:54 PM   #1
rapido OP
enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2014
Oddometer: 57
1984 Moto Guzzi 850-T5 Project ... Will it ever be cool

Recently I was encouraged to start a thread related to my Guzzi 850 T5 project.

I purchased this T5 just before winter, and have been working on it a bit since then. I will have to play a bit of catch up, adding pictures to this thread, to show the progress so far.

For the first post, I'll show the before photos.

The T5 as many know, is a bit of an odd one, 16" mags, funky body work, long/low. It's not particularly sought after. That's probably why I have it. Maybe no one else wanted it.

This example is actually mechanically fairly sound. Runs fine, handles pretty well. At this point, my goal is to not totally restore the bike. Instead, I would like to reduce it down to something visually quite different. Remove a lot of what is on there, simplify, try to make it a bit more classic, maybe a bit tougher. I won't get rid of all the T5 stuff, keeping the parts that I think can be made to work.

The question I guess is can a T5 ever be cool?



rapido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 04:45 AM   #2
Pigford
British
 
Pigford's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: North Dorset, UK
Oddometer: 893
T3 - YES


T5 - Hmmmmmm





Just ride & enjoy
Pigford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 07:11 AM   #3
flemsmith
lurk
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Apache Junction, Az
Oddometer: 486
Surprised...

...at the 16" wheels. Front and rear?

roy
flemsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 08:17 AM   #4
realgone
n00b
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Oddometer: 5
I see tons of potential!
I looked at a T5 before landing on my Cali II.
Pretty ugly, but unloved enough that I think they're fair game for ham fisted modification (my favorite kind).
realgone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 08:58 AM   #5
rapido OP
enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2014
Oddometer: 57
Yes, the wheels are 16" on both ends.

I've owned bikes with 16" front, and 18" rear before, which always looked strange to me. The 16" on both ends is a little lower in height, a little less ground clearance ( 1" ), but doesn't look terrible to me. This bike also came with pretty decent size tires on the 16" wheels, which leads to a fairly meaty appearance.

I plan to keep the wheels at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flemsmith View Post
...at the 16" wheels. Front and rear?

roy
rapido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 09:03 AM   #6
rapido OP
enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2014
Oddometer: 57
I totally agree. The lack of love for the hardware, and the ugly appearance lends itself to a certain freedom. I've worked on full, accurate, restorations; 750GT Ducati comes to mind. Those projects for me are fun in a different way, but restrictive. This bike will allow me to try things out, and modify, without a lot of fear or hesitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by realgone View Post
I see tons of potential!
I looked at a T5 before landing on my Cali II.
Pretty ugly, but unloved enough that I think they're fair game for ham fisted modification (my favorite kind).
rapido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 01:18 PM   #7
Old Mule
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Old Mule's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: Chihuahuan Desert in Texas
Oddometer: 349
nice one, looks

like you put on the Norton fork gaiters and better brake lines.
Too bad you didn't get the fairing, it's very quiet, great weather protection.
Are you going to use it as a touring bike as designed?
T5 was a refined tourer (fior a Guzzi) and I always thought it was a much better tourer than the R BMWs. For one thing the torque peak is much higher than a BMWs, so although it won't do wheelies it will cruise at 90 all day with pretty decent fuel consumption and good throttle responsiveness.
T5s handle very well in high wind and rainy roads, always liked them.
Old Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 04:26 PM   #8
rapido OP
enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2014
Oddometer: 57
One of the first pieces I wanted to settle on and locate was a tank replacement. I wasn't terribly fond of the T5 tank style.

The options I considered were: custom aluminum tank, V7 Sport/LMI/LMII style, or LMIII/LMIV style. After much comparison and searching, I actually located a replacement V7 Sport tank locally on Craigslist. It was part of a bigger sale, that included another bike. I didn't need the other bike and managed to just purchase the tank.









The tank was missing the fuel cap but otherwise in unused condition.

Installing an older tank like this on a T5 does not come without its challenges. Basically the front frame mount design changed somewhere around the 4th series bikes.

The earlier tanks ( like the V7 ) mount to the frame's steering head tube. The tank has these hooks on the front, and the frame has a stud on either side of the steering tube. A rubber grommet, washer, and bolt secure the tank to the frame.

On later tanks ( like my T5 ) the front mount is not visible once the tank is mounted. There is a round rubber bumper attached on either side of the frame back a bit from the steering head tube, just above the horizontal frame rails. The tank has a C-shaped cradle that fits around that bumper.

This leaves me a couple of options I can think of.

The first option is to modify the existing frame. A couple of threaded studs would be welded onto the steering head tube. In the next picture, I'm holding a metric coupler nut in the approx. location. The outside of the coupler nut would likely first be ground to a round shape, removing the hex.



There are a few other interesting details in the picture above.

First off, you can see the rubber bumpers on the frame to the right of my hand, those are the factory tank mounts.

You can also see a couple of parts of the frame breather system that the T5 uses. Visible are the big tube from the crankcase ( inlet to the frame ) and the smaller tube ahead of it which is the atmosphere exhaust ( outlet from the frame ). Not seen in the picture is the oil outlet, which is lower on the frame backbone.

Also, notice how the steering head tube extends quite a ways above the backbone, and has a brace welded between the two frame components. The T5 uses 38mm forks ( vs 35mm ) with a taller triple tree.

My second option to get the tank mounted, is to modify the tank. Doing so would require welding something similar to the C-shaped cradles to the inside of the tank. Below is a picture of one of those from my T5 tank.



The jury is still out on which option to use. I can say that otherwise, the tank sits on the bike just fine.
rapido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 09:26 PM   #9
rapido OP
enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2014
Oddometer: 57
An area of this bike that was messy, mismatched, and just goofy was the instruments/controls area. The instrument cluster was from a more modern Ducati, though little of it was working. The ignition switch was mounted on this home built little piece of metal attached to the handlebar clamps. Headlight bucket and ears were a common aftermarket part. And the wiring was pretty much a jumble under the cluster.





I thought I would begin by pulling the bike apart here, and see where it went. My general direction was to simplify visually as much as possible. I wanted to get rid of the high bars, in favor of something much lower, clip-ons.

Also, the whole front end to me was visually too dark, since pretty much every part of it is painted. Also, not so keen on the gators.
rapido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2014, 10:08 PM   #10
rapido OP
enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2014
Oddometer: 57
One of the key visual components to simplifying the controls area was the upper triple clamp. I've always liked the looks of smooth tops to the triple tree. As you know, this bike does not have such a part. So I thought I would shave and fill the existing to smooth it out.

The first picture is the upper triple clamp, as removed from the bike.



Next I used a 4" angle grinder, with sanding discs, to remove the upper handlebar bosses. My favorite grit was somewhere around 220 for this. Mostly, I took my time, and paid close attention to the underlying contours of the casting. The goal was to not remove anything from the thickness of the casting, just bring the handle bar bosses down in alignment with the contour.



Next move was to flip the casting over, and remove the handlebar bosses from the underside. This part was not really required, and frankly a pain. But, I wanted it to look as though the bosses were never there, even from below. I used a Dremel for this material removal.

The picture below shows one boss gone and the other still in place.



Next both bosses from the underside are gone.



Next, the part gets sent away to someone much more skilled than myself to weld up the four holes.



Then I carefully used a flat file, then block sanded to finish off the welds. Also at this stage I cleaned up the original casting flashing that went around the entire mid line of the casting. Since this part was originally painted from the factory, and not intended to be polished, the excess flashing was not originally cleaned up.





Final stage in the process was to polish the part. To do this, I purchased a polishing wheel and compound from the hardware store, and mounted it to my bench grinder. With a bit of patience, this seemed to work out just fine.

After quite a few hours of grinding, sanding, filling, and polishing...I have the look I'm after.

rapido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 03:25 AM   #11
chris a
Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Southern France
Oddometer: 50
Nice work....
chris a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 03:36 AM   #12
JonnyCash
turd polisher
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Midcoast, Maine
Oddometer: 1,358
Nice job there. I've had this on my list of things to someday do on my T3. Now that I see the results, I'll have to bump it up a little higher on the list.
__________________
I wouldn't bring her home to Mama, but Mama ain't home tonight.
JonnyCash is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 08:25 AM   #13
flemsmith
lurk
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Apache Junction, Az
Oddometer: 486
Anyone else...?

....Not able to see the pix posted yesterday re the triple tree? Woops, now I see them. Sorry. That looks cool!

roy
flemsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 01:24 PM   #14
rapido OP
enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2014
Oddometer: 57
After seeing success with the triple clamp top, I decided to take similar steps with the triple clamp lower and fork sliders.

I realized that these would also be quite a bit of work. Those parts were also factory painted. After stripping the fork sliders, I noticed just how rough they were as cast. These would require many hours of sanding to make them close enough to smooth, to take a polish.

Below is a picture of the lower triple and fork sliders, after stripping and initial rough sanding. Still present in the picture is the casting flashing around the belt line of the triple clamp lower, much like was present on the triple clamp upper. This will get removed as well, to make a smoother casting.



The sliders would prove to take many hours to correct. Below is a picture of one side about mid way through sanding and polishing; the other side just started.



The next couple of pictures show the casting flashing removed from the lower triple clamp.





Many hours later, the parts are complete and ready for reassembly.








rapido screwed with this post 05-08-2014 at 02:21 PM
rapido is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 03:07 PM   #15
rapido OP
enthusiast
 
Joined: May 2014
Oddometer: 57
An interesting part to figure out, now that the forks were getting close, were the clipons.

I had this set of 38mm Italian clipons kicking around. I've had them forever, and really wanted them to work. The say "Brevettato" stamped into the aluminum castings, and have chrome bars that fit into the castings. Also, they have aluminum plugs pressed into the business end. I really don't know what these originally came on. For some reason I think Laverda, but could be totally full of it. Let me know if you have any ideas.



Long story short, they weren't going to work. Mainly, they are quite aggressive, very steep. Bigger issue is the size of the casting. Basically, it interferes with trying to get a modern master cylinder positioned properly on the bar. My expectation is they would probably work fine for a vintage bike with drum front.

This detail alone would help to define what I finally found.

I researched many different clipons. I looked at fully adjustable Tommaselli and Tarozzi. Also, just looked at modern / generic 38mm clipons. Most had something that didn't seem quite right for what I was doing. Eventually, I found this vintage set of Magura clipons. They are a bit aggressive compared to modern clipons. But, they are quite smooth where the bar meets the clamp around the fork tubes. In fact, they are one solid piece.

rapido is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014