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Old 12-18-2014, 02:42 PM   #1
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Is this the next great motorcycle engine?

fascinating stuff....Duke Axial internal combustion engine






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The Duke axial engine is arguably one of the most advanced gas-burning engines ever made, but has it come it too late? As we're constantly reporting on advances in electric power, is the gas engine done for good regardless of the engineering power?


What is it?

For 17 years Duke’s opus has been the axial engine. “Situated around, in the direction of, on, or along an axis,” that's the definition of axial, so you may be able to guess how this valveless, compact engine works.

From the outside, Dukes' prototype appears to be un-cluttered and nothing like a conventional internal combustion engine. Currently the company is working on motors that fit within the aerospace, marine and automotive applications.


Motorcycles

The technology Duke is quietly perfecting is not just another hornswoggle; it looks to be both real and progressive. Interesting is the axial design and what it could offer the two-wheeled world as a lighter, smaller, smoother and equally powerful alternative to the contemporary engine.
There have been in the past some notable attempts to deliver unique engine options that have won championships and delivered quality to the market- some with great success. There are many configurations - V4, V twin, inline 3’s and 4’s, parallel twins, flat 4’s and Honda’s V5 GP engine to name a few. All of these variants featured camshafts and valves, while the Axial has neither. Some are probably even made with adamantium stolen from Wolverine, (well maybe not) - but who really knows what's actually in Honda’s GP RC211V engine?


The venerable Wankel engine is a stark contrast to high performance motors of today and it also possesses no such things as cams, valves (or adamantium). As a rotary engine it was designed with less parts but in the end couldn't deliver the performance with the required reliability.
In 1974 Suzuki produced its heavy Wankel RE5 but ended the model in 1976 and Norton won at the Isle of Man with their rotary powered NRS 588 piloted by Steve Hislop, winning the 1992 senior TT. Duke’s revolver arranged, 5-cylinder axial engine - although yet untested in a motorcycle - possesses several more qualities and improvements in comparison to the older rotary motor design.
One very important aspect is that it has gone through an exceptionally long development and there’s empirical data to prove performance. It could possibly take motorcycle design a step further - smaller physical size, smaller/lighter engine weight, less vibration, less moving parts, sans cam shafts and valves and a longitudinal crank that requires no counter balance shafts. The “so what?” is maybe found in the forces of physics that surround motorbikes, and how the Duke engine could counter them.
Quote:
Here are the specifics on the 5 cylinder, 1000cc prototype: 67 x 56 Bore and Stroke (mm), 125 HP @ 7,500 RPM (max engine output speed) with 119 NM of torque. The engine weight is 86 pounds including ancillary parts- minus the starter-generator. The bare engine dimensions are diminutive-16.69 L x 9.52 W x 9.52 H (inches).
86 pounds, 125 HP, fits in a carry on....

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Old 12-18-2014, 07:18 PM   #2
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Just read a Thunder Press from Sept? They mentioned the viable radial steam engine, anyone know anything about this?
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:54 PM   #3
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Interesting. The intake and exhaust ports should have excellent flow numbers without valve and valve guides in the way. Changing the timing of the intake and exhaust events looks like it is more complex than with a camshaft, though. The rotating cylinder block must require creative gasketing to prevent combustion leaks.
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Old 12-19-2014, 09:55 AM   #4
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Just read a Thunder Press from Sept? They mentioned the viable radial steam engine, anyone know anything about this?
Radial steam engine.....



I know steam is supposed to put out A LOT of power but I dont know almost anything about steam engines.

a casual google search yielded this

http://www.cyclonepower.com/

Quote:
The Cyclone Engine
USES ANY FUEL with NO ENGINE MODIFICATIONS
......aaaaaaaaaaaaaand Im already skeptical



Quote:
The Cyclone Engine is a Rankine Cycle heat regenerative external combustion, otherwise known as a “Schoell Cycle” engine. In short, the Cyclone is a 21st century, high efficiency, compact and powerful steam engine.

The Cyclone Engine is capable of running on virtually any fuel (or combination of fuels) including today’s promising new bio fuels, while emitting far fewer pollutants than traditional gas or diesel powered internal combustion engines.
To date, Cyclone has over 1,000 hours of running and testing our engines, has achieved verified thermal efficiencies above 30%, and is very close to putting the first of these engine models into small-scale commercial production.

From waste energy and solar thermal power generators to cars, trucks, trains and ships, we see a day when our planet will be powered in a sustainable manner by just One Engine – the Cyclone Engine.
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:36 AM   #5
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Very interesting, Eatpasta. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:58 AM   #6
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Radial steam engine.....

They call that a "Turbine" where I am from.
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Old 12-19-2014, 11:14 AM   #7
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Fascinating engineering The only hurdles I can see is that there is a whole lot of moving surface area that will need good lubrication. And as others have said, the seals. Kinda like the Mazda rotary engine...amazing idea, just hard to keep sealed.
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Old 12-19-2014, 11:22 AM   #8
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I'm still waiting on more wankels.
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Old 12-19-2014, 11:30 AM   #9
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Fascinating engineering The only hurdles I can see is that there is a whole lot of moving surface area that will need good lubrication. And as others have said, the seals. Kinda like the Mazda rotary engine...amazing idea, just hard to keep sealed.
Just like every boutique engine, the concept is amazing but can it be practical in day to day use? Time will tell... but yes fascinating.
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Quote:
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Old 12-19-2014, 11:32 AM   #10
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It killed me when after 26 years, my Mom FINALLY offered to sell me her 81' RX7. A true 2 seater. No AC, no Power anything, handled like it was on rails and that Wankel engine just ran like a top.

Absolutely spotless, never in even a fender bender, well maintained. I drove this car to my Senior Prom!

Problem: Just bought my motorcycle 2 months prior, no cash in the fun fund to pay for it.

She end up selling to someone who promptly wrapped it around a tree before DMV even issued a new title.
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Old 12-19-2014, 11:50 AM   #11
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It killed me when after 26 years, my Mom FINALLY offered to sell me her 81' RX7. A true 2 seater. No AC, no Power anything, handled like it was on rails and that Wankel engine just ran like a top.

Absolutely spotless, never in even a fender bender, well maintained. I drove this car to my Senior Prom!

Problem: Just bought my motorcycle 2 months prior, no cash in the fun fund to pay for it.

She end up selling to someone who promptly wrapped it around a tree before DMV even issued a new title.
ohhh that sucks - sorry to hear that such a cool one owner car was ruined. My aunt had one of those when I was kid and got to drive it.... what a hoot on Kentucky gravel roads
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnszilla
I was SO high, I could have hunted duck with a rake
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
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Old 12-19-2014, 12:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bobk0 View Post
Fascinating engineering The only hurdles I can see is that there is a whole lot of moving surface area that will need good lubrication. And as others have said, the seals. Kinda like the Mazda rotary engine...amazing idea, just hard to keep sealed.
And cooling? Does a bunch of water swish around in there? Not to mention (I read this somewhere else) the centrifugal forces pulling out on all those spinning reciprocating parts will really limit maximum RPM.
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Old 12-19-2014, 12:47 PM   #13
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And cooling? Does a bunch of water swish around in there? Not to mention (I read this somewhere else) the centrifugal forces pulling out on all those spinning reciprocating parts will really limit maximum RPM.
to maybe ohhhh say 7500rpm... (it's in the OP)
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Old 12-19-2014, 01:12 PM   #14
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to maybe ohhhh say 7500rpm... (it's in the OP)
I read in an interview that it was tested up to 4500 RPM. I wonder if the 7500 is theoretical or actual?
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Old 12-19-2014, 01:30 PM   #15
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Been a while since I took college physics, but I wonder if gyroscopic forces are an issue (especially on a motorcycle) or if the rotating masses that turn in opposite directions effectively cancel each other out. I've heard that a wankel engine on a chainsaw can be a very scary thing.
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