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Old 04-02-2012, 11:33 AM   #1066
BaronVonDarrin
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Originally Posted by Lone Rider View Post
Let's call it expected rather than entitled, and be generous...:)
The cattle call....
Lines form. Take a number. Pick your future. The end result - including the actual end itself - is preplanned.
it was sold and told to me my entire school career, from elementary to high school, that I NEEDED a degree. Teachers, ministers, counselors, parents, friends, you name it. I feel like the entire world sold me a load of bullshit. I can completely understand why someone might come off as feeling entitled, but I think it is more of a case of anger over fraudulent advertisement in my case.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:23 PM   #1067
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College is what you make of it. It can be a huge step up. It is rarely a step down unless you really implode yourself by going to crap school, getting crap degree, not doing any work, and putting on as much debt as you find.

And as far as I can see, there are no engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, physicists, chemists, etc, etc, walking around with no college degrees.

Just because your 'independent studies' major is not getting you job offers, don't knock all colleges and all degrees.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:11 PM   #1068
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College is what you make of it. It can be a huge step up. It is rarely a step down unless you really implode yourself by going to crap school, getting crap degree, not doing any work, and putting on as much debt as you find.

And as far as I can see, there are no engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, physicists, chemists, etc, etc, walking around with no college degrees.

Just because your 'independent studies' major is not getting you job offers, don't knock all colleges and all degrees.

I have known a couple of non-degreed engineers but they are a bit rare. Most of them can thank a family member who gave them a lengthy apprenticeship.

But yeah, a degree in the right subject will get you in the door. After that, it's up to you to close the deal and to be successful.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:16 PM   #1069
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College is what you make of it.
While I did use my college degree, I can remember virtually all of my college girlfriends, but very few of my professors.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:34 PM   #1070
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I have known a couple of non-degreed engineers but they are a bit rare. Most of them can thank a family member who gave them a lengthy apprenticeship.

But yeah, a degree in the right subject will get you in the door. After that, it's up to you to close the deal and to be successful.
My Grandfather was a non-degreed engineer. He worked for Grumman Aerospace for over 40 years. He helped put fighters in the sky in wartime, the first men on the moon (safely), and later in his career was an educator in the vocational school system (under the auspices of Grumman). He retired in the 1970s.

That career path is rare if not impossible to duplicate today. And like PirateJohn said, family ties and apprenticeship are usually required. Whether formal or informal, education is never a waste though debt can make it seem so. Whether you realize it or not, your education and life experiences make you who you are today and your view of the world is affected by these. Your problem solving skills will be sharper, your communication skills honed. Your vocabulary will expand and your tolerance for those somehow different than you will change.

There are plenty of very successful people with, and without, degrees. I am just about convinced that these people would be successful no matter what, and that education was just another tool to get them where they are today.

No tradesman would work with a dull chisel, why take that chance with your mind when opportunity knocks?
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:51 PM   #1071
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Am sort of a self-styled inventor/designer/builder, and am not sure what the hang-up is about the word 'engineer'. Might have a hard time finding a job, whether you're looking for a regular paycheck or a paying client, but nobody is going to stop you from designing and building (almost) anything.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:27 AM   #1072
bmwcliff
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Expats

I was working on a job a few years ago in Taiwan, at a nuclear plant, lovely place to work, the people were wonderful. Anyway, ran into lots of British and American expats who came over on a short assignment, usually a couple years, and stayed for one reason or another. A couple married Chinese women, and their wives could own a business, they loved the pace and the lifestyle, and spoke of the very low taxes.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:38 AM   #1073
eepeqez
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In Australia, we've gone from something like 20% of young adults going to university to something more like 70% to 80% over the last 30 or so years. 40 years ago, the final year of school was a university preparation and entry qualification and most students left school at year 11 (age 16/17). 50 years ago it was common to leave school at year 9 (age 15).

The simple reality though, is that the world has not changed such that 70% of jobs require a university education. Instead of a university education virtually guaranteeing a professional career, it's simply one more hurdle many people must jump to get into jobs that really don't require the skills universities teach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witold View Post
And as far as I can see, there are no engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, physicists, chemists, etc, etc, walking around with no college degrees.

Just because your 'independent studies' major is not getting you job offers, don't knock all colleges and all degrees.
The finance manager and treasurer of my last employer had not completed her accounting degree and actively discouraged people from describing her as an accountant, but that was what she was in all but name.

When I left school in 1980, the very last diploma (3 year technical college rather than a 4 year university degree) engineering courses here were winding up. We use the term college differently to the US; a college is not a university.

By the time I did my engineering degree 10 years later, engineering diplomas were a distant memory and the former college I attended became a university during my time there, but several of the academics who taught us were diploma qualified, though typically with further qualifications.

Certainly in another 10 to 15 years almost all the remaining non degree qualified professional engineers in Australia will be retired; they're not minting any new ones.
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:10 AM   #1074
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Originally Posted by 510ebl View Post
Whether formal or informal, education is never a waste though debt can make it seem so. Whether you realize it or not, your education and life experiences make you who you are today and your view of the world is affected by these. Your problem solving skills will be sharper, your communication skills honed. Your vocabulary will expand and your tolerance for those somehow different than you will change.

There are plenty of very successful people with, and without, degrees. I am just about convinced that these people would be successful no matter what, and that education was just another tool to get them where they are today.
WONDERFUL!!! Very well put!!
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:08 AM   #1075
Witold
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The point of a degree is that it can usually make your life much easier. The only clear losers are people who made ridiculously bad decisions in getting a degree - crap degree from crap school and decided to take as much loans as they could get.

70% of people these days may have degrees... does that devalue the degree? Or does that devalue you when you apply for jobs where most of the other applicants have a degree? In a lot of places, degrees count. They show commitment. Yeah, if you are an exceptional candidate with portfolio full of work, you can overcome any hurdle, but that doesn't make degrees worthless. Entrepreneurs and highly motivated self-starters do not need degrees. But very few people fit that mold. Exceptions do not make a rule.
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:13 AM   #1076
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**EDIT** not important

But to the point...I wish I could go live stress free, for a while at least, in the tropics or desert

I owe you one
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Old 04-06-2012, 03:37 PM   #1077
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Originally Posted by Witold View Post
College is what you make of it. It can be a huge step up. It is rarely a step down unless you really implode yourself by going to crap school, getting crap degree, not doing any work, and putting on as much debt as you find.

And as far as I can see, there are no engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, physicists, chemists, etc, etc, walking around with no college degrees.
I am a PLC Controls Engineer with nothing but a high school diploma. It does still happen IF you pick the right field. Though not often advertised, there are still fields where skills and experience trumps paper. I'm 32 btw, so it's not like I've got multiple decades of experience.

To get back on track, is a 21 or so foot sailboat in freshwater lakes a good starting point to learn basic sailing skills for future international travels on a larger boat, or should I start with something smaller/simpler. I have experience on 21-25' runabouts on the Chesapeake bay and inshore ocean, but zero sailing experience.

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Old 04-07-2012, 04:14 AM   #1078
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LIFE is what you make of it. ...


and you are what makes life
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:48 AM   #1079
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Originally Posted by Whitebread117 View Post
To get back on track, is a 21 or so foot sailboat in freshwater lakes a good starting point to learn basic sailing skills for future international travels on a larger boat, or should I start with something smaller/simpler. I have experience on 21-25' runabouts on the Chesapeake bay and inshore ocean, but zero sailing experience.
You bet!! Tha'd be perfect!!

Sailing on a lake is great place to learn, in that if you have any problems, it's easy to get back to shore....(or you can swim if it gets really bad!!)



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and you are what makes life
AMEN!!
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:57 AM   #1080
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4 1/2 years out on a sailing boat

I bought a 27 foot sailing boat for £2750 in poor condition, spent a grand making it work and simplifying it. I sailed from Britain to Gambia and back over 4 1/2 years. I earned money along the way busking with a little C melody soprano saxophone, making around £120 a week (not in Africa, but it wa very cheap to live there). I spent about £4000 yearly to live, travel and maintain the boat. My parents helped out with the difference between what I could earn busking and what it actually cost, such as re-engining in the Canary Islands, which I did alone but loads of advice from other sailors.
I'd already sailed ten years in a 23 footer, learning by going to France and Belgium and all around the east and south coasts of Britain.
After 4 1/2 years I wanted to be back with family and friends and familiar places, ie. 'home'. I wrote a travel book and am selling it on Amazon, hardly any paperbacks sell, but Kindle sales are quite healthy, after I priced it at just a few Dollars.
Link to article about my boat and book The Voyage of Storm Petrel - Britain to Senegal Alone in a Boat. Clarissa Vincent. The first of two books ends on arrival at west Africa, I'm editing the second book, which is 6 months in Senegal and The Gambia, 229 miles inland up the River Gambia, back to The Canary Isles, Madeira, Gibraltar, north Mediterranean Spain for the Winter and up the French inland waterways to the English Channel.
I now live on a houseboat in Suffolk, Britain and have no plans to travel, so I sold the sailing yacht recently and bought a BMW R65 as my new adventure machine.
Trouble with a boat is you always have the boat in mind, where it's moored, so it's hard to go exploring for more than a day. The good thing about a boat is it contains all your living needs, accomodation, food, cooking, sleeping and pleasure stuff, guitars, cd players etc. Much more than one can carry on a bike.
But I grew tired of the ocean, the constant stress of waves and weather and I craved a land based travel experience which would enable me to stop at any time I felt, to sit quietly in a forest or at a riverside, or rest in a cafe and talk to people, or just walk around a new town. The ocean never rests, except in dead calms, but then you're worried you could be there forever, so you spend the whole time looking for clouds on the horizon with wind under them..
The voyage changed me, gave me huge sense of confidence and got the voyaging desire out of my system (I had always wanted to sail to Spain).
I chose a bike over a yacht, but only after 20 years sailing. I rode bikes back in the 70 and 80s, that kind of runs deeper in me.
Pictures of Storm Petrel's voyage and a link to Amazon paperback and Kindle book here

Happy days up The River Gambia in west Africa.
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