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Old 12-10-2009, 09:40 PM   #136
osteo OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neduro
I just went back through the thread and wanted to comment on a few things I have some knowledge of.

1) Price: when you hold the article in your hand, three things are obvious in a purely objective light.

First, that absolutely first rate materials are used throughout. The D3O armor and Gore stuff for a start, but the "zip lock" zippers, the super-tough fabric on the likely contact points, the buckles and pulls and zippers and bladder and everything else are very nice stuff. No corner looks to have been cut.

Second, that sewing and assembling this jacket is a serious production. It is a complex piece of kit, with more features per square inch than anything else I've seen, to invent a metric.

Third, that it's really nicely made. There are no loose threads, no seams that aren't sealed both inside and out, everything is symmetrical and done at right angles and so on. It has quality of workmanship.

How well it works (or not) remains to be seen for me, but I think anyone holding the jacket would agree with the above three points. And, anyone who's ever produced something will tell you, good ingredients + lots of features + workmanship = cost.

Now, I've ruined plenty of pies made with the best ingredients, so that in itself is not a defense of price, it has to function well to be worth it. I can't comment at all on that yet, and when I can it will always be somewhat subjective, but I'm a lot more comfortable buying something expensive where the high cost is justified by the components and features, rather than by a brand name (*cough, harley, cough*).

2) Revolutionary vs. Evolutionary:

I'm not 100% up to date on the latest offerings from Rukka, BMW, and other premium brands, but I've done some internet searches to see what I can learn.

The Klim pants are, IMO, evolutionary. They have some great and unique features especially in the venting, but I'm not sure that qualifies as a revolution. All of the details seem well executed, as you'd expect from a company that's been making dirt gear for long enough to get through a few revisions. For what it's worth, I don't know what a revolutionary pant would look like (would it take batteries? would you ever leave the house? :-).

The jacket is much more revolutionary. As has been rehashed already in the thread, there's the integration of drinking and storage in the jacket (all of which has been done somewhere before) but with the addition of the internal support system, which makes it much more comfortable than any existing design I've seen or tried on. I just threw a bunch of random crap (books, bladder, footpegs (hey, they were lying around), camera, netbook) in the pockets to see how it fit and was impressed that instead of feeling like an overloaded jacket, it felt like an unloaded jacket with a light weight well-balanced pack on. So it has promise to do something that is a new feature for jackets in my experience- comfortably carry stuff and eliminate the need to have a rucksack, fannypack, or camelback on.

Again, I can't comment on whether the revolution is entirely for the better in practice, but with the information I have available, it looks promising.
See... now I want one again!! (well I wanted it before, but rationalized myself out of it) that is the nice thing at least for me and this off season - as I will not be riding I can stockpile my allocated bike money over the winter towards this and seeing as I have already purchased all my spare parts/useables for next season, I am ahead of the game!!!

D
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Old 12-11-2009, 04:13 AM   #137
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Neduro,
while riding offroad, are you planning to keep the d3o protections or will you wear a body armor under?
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:09 AM   #138
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I hope Neduro has answered some of the questions you asked, the answers below should address some of the bits he has missed.

The suit was always designed to be ridden off road. Having spent considerable time in other suits flying over the handlebars only to land with my internal back protetor wrapped around my ribcage, or my elbow pads trying to protect my forearms it was always a priority to ensure that amour stayed put when things didnt go to plan.

The back protector is part of the built in harness system (which is fully removable). It is held in place at the shoulders by two padded over-shoulder straps and also by a chest strap. At the base of the spine the protector has a built in kidney belt with an elastic/velcro strap arrangement. This means as you put on the jacket the protector is fully held in place as if you were wearing a pressure suit.

The shoulders are also held in place as part of the jacket system. Because the jacket is properly attatched to your body I'd be impressed if the shoulder pads managed to go anywhere other than where they are supposed to be.

For the elbow protection we have used a soft armour to help the pads mould to your body and have cut the jacket in such a way that the armour wants to stay where it is intended. We have also added a lining to the arms which has a slight stretch to help hold position.

I have fallen numerous times with the jacket on and have yet to experience armour movement.

Ned is right about the D3o armour. It does get slightly stiffer in the cold but NEVER goes hard. We didnt want any hard armour in the suit at all and looked long and hard for an armour that stayed soft and pliable in all temperatures. We didnt want the suit to feel as if you had a full CE certified armour suit under a shell jacket. Freedom of mvement and comfort were prime directives in the inital specification. At times its hard to actually believe you have any armoured protection in this suit at all. But the thats just how we designed it!

Temperatures....

Ridden currently from plus 40 degrees Centigrade to minus 10 Degrees Centigrade.

Ventilation in the pants is amazing in the heat and cools perfectly (12" vent in each leg). The jacket has two side vents (12") and two rear exhaust ports (8") to cool the body core, you can also opt to run the jacket collarless for total body cooling. Ridden in last years Dakar and also across the Sahara for a five week fimed expedition by test riders including Pyndon there wee no heat issues at all.

Add the collar of your choice (there are two as standard, one to work with a leattneck brace, one to work as normal, so there is no bunching of material if you ride neckbraceless) to turn the jacket into a fully weatherproof, 100% waterproof system. If you feel cool whilst riing simply add a warm layer under the jacket. The outer layer is both weatherproofing and protection.

Delivery dates/prices, availability.

We only distribute the suit in the UK and Andorra. Anywhere else in the world you will need to look for a Klim distributor/dealership, there should be availability about spring next year. Pricing will vary from country to country.

UK price for the suit is 1600. UK suit delivery date is March 31st.
Hope that answers a few questions....

Dave
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:22 AM   #139
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Ned, you suck. Kate and I are dog sitting for your partner in crime.
Yall have fun and be safe on your trip.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:46 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlomax
I hope Neduro has answered some of the questions you asked, the answers below should address some of the bits he has missed.

The suit was always designed to be ridden off road. Having spent considerable in other suits flying over the handlebars only to land with my internal back protetor wrapped around my ribcage, or my elbow pads trying to protect my forearms it was always a priority to ensure that amour stayed put when things didnt go to plan.

The back protector is part of the built in harness system (which is fully removable). It is held in place at the shoulders by two padded over-shoulder straps and also by a chest strap. At the base of the spine the protector has a built in kidney belt with an elastic/velcro strap arrangement. This means as you put on the jacket the protector is fully held in place as if you were wearing a pressure suit.

The shoulders are also held in place as part of the jacket system. Because the jacket is properly attatched to your body I'd be impressed if the shoulder pads managed to go anywhere other than where they are supposed to be.

For the elbow protection we have used a soft armour to help the pads mould to your body and have cut the jacket in such a way that the armour wants to stay where it is intended. We have also added a lining to the arms which has a slight stretch to help hold position.

I have fallen numerous times with the jacket on and have yet to experience armour movement.

Ned is right about the D3o armour. It does get slightly stiffer in the cold but NEVER goes hard. We didnt want any hard armour in the suit at all and looked long and hard for an armour that stayed soft and pliable in all temperatures. We didnt want the suit to feel as if you had a full CE certified armour suit under a shell jacket. Freedom of mvement and comfort were prime directives in the inital specification. At times its hard to actually believe you have any armoured protection in this suit at all. But the thats just how we designed it!

Temperatures....

Ridden currently from plus 40 degrees Centigrade to minus 10 Degrees Centigrade.

Ventilation in the pants is amazing in the heat and cools perfectly (12" vent in each leg). The jacket has two side vents (12") and two rear exhaust ports (8") to cool the body core, you can also opt to run the jacket collarless for total body cooling. Ridden in last years Dakar and also across the Sahara for a five week fimed expedition by test riders including Pyndon there wee no heat issues at all.

Add the collar of your choice (there are two as standard, one to work with a leattneck brace, one to work as normal, so there is no bunching of material if you ride neckbraceless) to turn the jacket into a fully weatherproof, 100% waterproof system. If you feel cool whilst riing simply add a warm layer under the jacket. The outer layer is both weatherproofing and protection.

Delivery dates/prices, availability.

We only distribute the suit in the UK and Andorra. Anywhere else in the world you will need to look for a Klim distributor/dealership, there should be availability about spring next year. Pricing will vary from country to country.

UK price for the suit is 1600. UK suit delivery date is March 31st.
Hope that answers a few questions....

Dave
Well, it sure seems you guys have done a great job building true adventure gear, cost be damned. Subject to fit and some reviews, it sure sounds like the best kit around for the mix of tarmac, dirt and gravel many of us do on our 'adventures'.

Thanks for contributing to this thread.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:00 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlomax
I hope Neduro has answered some of the questions you asked, the answers below should address some of the bits he has missed.

The suit was always designed to be ridden off road. Having spent considerable in other suits flying over the handlebars only to land with my internal back protetor wrapped around my ribcage, or my elbow pads trying to protect my forearms it was always a priority to ensure that amour stayed put when things didnt go to plan.

The back protector is part of the built in harness system (which is fully removable). It is held in place at the shoulders by two padded over-shoulder straps and also by a chest strap. At the base of the spine the protector has a built in kidney belt with an elastic/velcro strap arrangement. This means as you put on the jacket the protector is fully held in place as if you were wearing a pressure suit.

The shoulders are also held in place as part of the jacket system. Because the jacket is properly attatched to your body I'd be impressed if the shoulder pads managed to go anywhere other than where they are supposed to be.

For the elbow protection we have used a soft armour to help the pads mould to your body and have cut the jacket in such a way that the armour wants to stay where it is intended. We have also added a lining to the arms which has a slight stretch to help hold position.

I have fallen numerous times with the jacket on and have yet to experience armour movement.

Ned is right about the D3o armour. It does get slightly stiffer in the cold but NEVER goes hard. We didnt want any hard armour in the suit at all and looked long and hard for an armour that stayed soft and pliable in all temperatures. We didnt want the suit to feel as if you had a full CE certified armour suit under a shell jacket. Freedom of mvement and comfort were prime directives in the inital specification. At times its hard to actually believe you have any armoured protection in this suit at all. But the thats just how we designed it!

Temperatures....

Ridden currently from plus 40 degrees Centigrade to minus 10 Degrees Centigrade.

Ventilation in the pants is amazing in the heat and cools perfectly (12" vent in each leg). The jacket has two side vents (12") and two rear exhaust ports (8") to cool the body core, you can also opt to run the jacket collarless for total body cooling. Ridden in last years Dakar and also across the Sahara for a five week fimed expedition by test riders including Pyndon there wee no heat issues at all.

Add the collar of your choice (there are two as standard, one to work with a leattneck brace, one to work as normal, so there is no bunching of material if you ride neckbraceless) to turn the jacket into a fully weatherproof, 100% waterproof system. If you feel cool whilst riing simply add a warm layer under the jacket. The outer layer is both weatherproofing and protection.

Delivery dates/prices, availability.

We only distribute the suit in the UK and Andorra. Anywhere else in the world you will need to look for a Klim distributor/dealership, there should be availability about spring next year. Pricing will vary from country to country.

UK price for the suit is 1600. UK suit delivery date is March 31st.
Hope that answers a few questions....

Dave
This post pretty much answered all of my questions, but, brought up another. It sounds like the back protector cannot be used if the harness is removed? If you don't plan on carrying much on your body, is there a purpose to the harness? Seems if you wanted back protection, you need the harness?
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:27 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams
This post pretty much answered all of my questions, but, brought up another. It sounds like the back protector cannot be used if the harness is removed? If you don't plan on carrying much on your body, is there a purpose to the harness? Seems if you wanted back protection, you need the harness?
There are elastic loops that hold the harness straps in position, so if you don't have any weight in the pockets, you can simply not buckle the sternum strap and they are no hassle and very unobtrusive. The kidney belt zips off as well without removing the back protector.

The elastic loops are one of the things that jumped out at me, they are just in the right place and they require a whole separate operation to install, they seemed like the kind of thing a bean counter would have nixed right away, and also the kind of thing you would have missed the whole time you owned the thing if they weren't there.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:55 AM   #143
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Cool

I want one. Let me go sell my kidney.
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Old 12-11-2009, 10:00 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerjwhite
I want one. Let me go sell my kidney.
What are you going to do for the rest of the money?








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Old 12-11-2009, 11:15 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by husky123
Hey guys. I just heard from my Klim rep. Looks like a April 2010 release on the suit. Jacket $1299.99, Pants $844.99.

Don't shoot!
Doing the math. If I sell my Rukka, Motoport and Belstaff jackets, I'll be there. Plus, my 40th is in April. My wife would cover the rest.

With the endorsements as of yet, I'd be tempted to step up to this no compromise suit. Is there a waiting list? I want on it...
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:37 PM   #146
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So far it sounds good on the paper. I look forward to see it for real but I am not sure if there is any shop in Spain that sells Klim and would hold this expensive gear in stock.
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:41 PM   #147
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I don't have much time to comment right now but I'll at least say something. I have had Version 1 (pre-production) of this suit for over a year now (shown with Dakar pants below).....



.......and have ridden over 15,000miles with it on both dirt and road. Enduro, trail riding, adventure riding, big bikes, little bikes and even racing. From blasting across the choking dryness of the desert in 40C temperatures to riding across northern Europe in a blizzard or even mud-plugging in Wales for hours on end.

10/10 to Dave Lomax, Chris Colling at Adventure Spec, Klim and everybody else involved with the development of this product. I have spent a number of hours reporting back with issues and concerns with the pre-production version and I have to say, every time they have taken everything on board, considered it and discussed it further to come up with a robust solution.

Mid year, Version 2 came out and although it was nearly there, there were still issues. They rightly took their time, accepted the issues and delayed production while they go them sorted out which is absolutely the right thing to do with a product such as this. This is not cheap swag, it's top notch stuff and there's nothing out there like it that provides the flexibility that I need for my kind of riding and variation.

Remember it is a shell, I ride with a heated jacket under it in the cold and currently have to use armour for off-road riding, only because the early version did not have it.

My gear has been back to Klim for inspection so they could consider wear etc. and factor any mods into the later versions.

For those of you that are worried about durability or tearing it, obviously nothing is bullet proof but this is SERIOUSLY TOUGH! The GoreTex materials on the jacket are super tough compared to anything I have seen before, you have to see it to believe it, this is built for the job! I have crashed lots with it and it's held together, no tears, just a few scuffs here and there and once washed, it looks like new.

In a few days time I might just be going on a little excursion (well quite big actually) somewhere far away and I'll be wearing Klim! But not a pre-production one this time, Dave just called me earlier today to let me know I can call and pck-up my Version 3 suit tomorrow

I will wear it and put it through its paces (along with my partners in crime ) and before they are available here in the UK at the end of March, I hope to have over 7,000miles on the new suit.

Here's to Klim and here's to Adventure riding, have a very Merry Christmas and I'll be back in the New Year

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Old 12-12-2009, 12:58 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viatormundi
So far it sounds good on the paper. I look forward to see it for real but I am not sure if there is any shop in Spain that sells Klim and would hold this expensive gear in stock.
If there is no shop in Spain Adventure-Spec can ship one to you from the UK or arrange for a trip to Andorra if you are not to far to the south. Of course, should the suit be the wrong size we will swap it for you...

Dave
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:01 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neduro
There are elastic loops that hold the harness straps in position, so if you don't have any weight in the pockets, you can simply not buckle the sternum strap and they are no hassle and very unobtrusive. The kidney belt zips off as well without removing the back protector.

The elastic loops are one of the things that jumped out at me, they are just in the right place and they require a whole separate operation to install, they seemed like the kind of thing a bean counter would have nixed right away, and also the kind of thing you would have missed the whole time you owned the thing if they weren't there.
Yep, Ned has this one correct (obviously!) You can choose to run without Kidney belt, back protector, or harness system if you want. OR, run any combination of the three items you want. Flexibility is the key here.

Although in real life I doubt you would bother removing anything. The set up is so unobtrusive and comfortable you shouldnt notice either the harness, belt, or protector, otherwise we've not done our jobs properly!

Dave

p.s. See you in a few hours Pyn, may the final testing begin!!!!
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Old 12-12-2009, 01:46 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlomax
If there is no shop in Spain Adventure-Spec can ship one to you from the UK or arrange for a trip to Andorra if you are not to far to the south. Of course, should the suit be the wrong size we will swap it for you...

Dave
Thx Dave. Maybe someone from your company decides to go on vacation in Mallorca in the future and can bring the suit with him. :-)

One last question. Are you guys planning to include chest protection parts into the jacket in the future. By doing so, having a body armour alternative really unnecessary. Smashing the chest area to the motorcycles front cockpit or to the ground after a fall is quite common especially while driving standing. Don't ask me how I know.
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