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Old 12-27-2007, 01:35 AM   #181
PeterW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Alejo
I am considering knobbies for the snow, but not studded.

Its ice traction similar to slick clay traction?
Nope. It's much less predictable, and at it's worst, it's ZERO traction, not just slippery, but no grip at all.

I have done long k's on ice and snow - without studded tires - but that was on a light weight 2-stroke. If the worst happened I could just prop on one leg and two tires and could avoid falling until I stopped sliding/spinning. Even there I've had nervous moments - spinning/sliding and gassing the bike
every time it pointed away from the 200' drop onto rocks .

You can ride in those conditions without studded tires, but if you can't hold the bike up somehow you *WILL* fall off. A heavy bike and studded tires (or the balance of a biking GOD!) are probably your only options.

You can scrounge around for grip with "normal tires" - rocks frozen in road edge gutters, the crap piled in the centre of the road etc, and snow itself is O.K. to ride in until it gets over front axle height.

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Old 12-27-2007, 09:23 PM   #182
V Saarela
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KL5A
Saarla, you do good work!

Once again, for the doubters-
Studded tires work. Even unstudded tires work if you know what you're doing.

I haven't had a good chance to to test the Kenda 761's.They did well in the first test ride up into Hatcher Pass, when I get a little time during daylight I can give them a better test run. We have snow now !
Keep informed how it went out

Ive tried unstudded(250cc). Bike stod almost still :o)
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Old 12-28-2007, 11:05 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V Saarela
Studds Ive tested under ten years of riding on streets wintertime
Nice work! Do you have to ride a lot of dry pavement in the winter, or is it mostly icy?
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:40 PM   #184
V Saarela
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysco
Nice work! Do you have to ride a lot of dry pavement in the winter, or is it mostly icy?
Heavier bikes with lorrystudds, mostly packed snow and icy pavement










Lighter bikes, TS250, SLR 650 etc. Also heavier snow









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Old 01-20-2008, 02:54 PM   #185
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Kenda 761's, studded and regrooved, still are not the equal of the tried and true Trackmasters. It took 3 tries to get out of my unshoveled driveway, once on thee road the sitution improved. Packed snow went OK, but the 761's lack the bite of the Trackmasters-however, once you get on the highway, the 761's handle a bunch better-they dont "fall in" like the Trackmasters are prone to do. So. I guess you pick your poison-do you want to go anywhere and wobble on the highway or choose your snow more carefully and make the highway run easier? I took the Peg up to an indicated 80 which I would have never done on the Trackmasters
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:56 PM   #186
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snow riding last year,
http://www.motorheadjohn.com/webvideos/polecreek.wmv
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Old 01-22-2008, 10:55 AM   #187
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studless traction on ice...

Something to remember, for studless tires on ice, traction depends on having absolutely no water between the tire and the ice. Rubber will actually grip ice surprising well, providing the two are in contact with each other. The slightest bit of water will prevent said contact.

If you look at dedicated winter tires for cages, you will notice heavy siping on the tires as well as water shedding tread designs. Both of these items work to get rid of all the water between the tire and the ice. The siping also adds more biting edges.

Heatup on the tire is also an enemy. The warmer the tire surface, the greater the chance of melting the ice when the tire makes contact. Remember that even the slightest water will kill the traction, so even though the melting taking place is minimal, it is enough to cause loss of traction. This is the same principle that allows ice skates to glide over the ice.

I will admit that I have not yet (intentionally) rode a street bike on snowy roads, so I am not speaking from personal experience. However, I would think that adding siping to a street tire that is good in rain would make for the beginnings of a decent snow tire. Keep the pressures a bit on the higher side to minimize sidewall flex and subsequent heating.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:34 PM   #188
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As this thread moves into its third year, I thought I would add a bit. I like to commute 26 miles (highway and expressway) on my motorcycles. But I am always hitting my self imposed limit of "don't go if the high isn't at least 40 degrees" rule. My rule is based on several crashes where I hit ice I could not see for various reasons. The ice was hidden by rain in two cases and I hit the ground so fast I couldn't blink, let alone dab to save it.

Studded tires seem like the solution to me. I have done a fair bit of street riding on bicycle studded tires and the performance was good. They provided the needed traction to eliminate the instantaneous ice crashes that I have encountered on my motorcycle.

Studs are illegal in my state (MI). Any idea on the punishment if I am cited? Anyone actually ever have a roadside discussion with a LEO about this?

Dysco, glad to hear you are back to your old tricks.
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:37 PM   #189
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I stand corrected. Studded tires are not illegal in MI. A LEO friend of mine pointed me here:

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...3839--,00.html

Information about studded tires is down the page a little. There is some garbage about 25% of the wear of a reference tire. My LEO friend told me that part is interpreted to mean "unless the thing obviously rips up the road" for law enforcement purposes.
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:49 PM   #190
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This mornings commute....

I posted these over in Gspot as well... Here are a few pics of this mornings commute. Had to coax the CHP to let me through the road closure....

Sure was pretty!!



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Old 01-28-2008, 11:20 AM   #191
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Thinking about it. Don't know if I have the stones to try it. I'm in Cleveland... we get mostly fresh snow or slush and a lot of dry pavement with TONS of salt. I need a dedicated winter bike b/c I'm not going to expose either of my current bikes to that much salt.

Doesn't seem like one would need to stud here because the roads get cleared so quickly after snow. Anyone know if studs are legal in Ohio?

Good winter bike?
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:31 PM   #192
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I studded a set of Dunlop 606s this year for a KLR. Only got to do ~800 miles before I sold it but my impression of studded tires has changed a lot. Running with a 21" front is FAR nicer that running a rear knobby on the 19" front of my BMW. It's downright safe and normal feeling... but it's still important to leave a little extra room. I think I sunk them too deep because they didn't seem to stick for the first three hundred miles or so.

For the stud connisours: I got 11 rows on the rear tire.



Incidentally, I ended up with a Honda Ruckus and it snowed pretty good on the way home tonight. The scooter does have one advantage: My boots were warm and dry when I got home!
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Old 04-21-2008, 06:54 PM   #193
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I just got a new aerostich catalog and they're selling studs and stud guns! That's a lot more legitimized than I ever thought this would get. The ones I'm interested in are the self-tapping tungsten carbide studs they're selling. They come with a bit and are just screwed in with a drill. Paul Mondor's in there giving a testimonial on them. Anyone using them here? It looks like they can go into low tread blocks like on street tires.
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Old 04-24-2008, 08:55 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowrider
I just got a new aerostich catalog and they're selling studs and stud guns! That's a lot more legitimized than I ever thought this would get. The ones I'm interested in are the self-tapping tungsten carbide studs they're selling. They come with a bit and are just screwed in with a drill. Paul Mondor's in there giving a testimonial on them. Anyone using them here? It looks like they can go into low tread blocks like on street tires.
Based on the pictures I've seen, they'll probably stop before going through the threads because they're so wide (good). Looks like a decent solution but at $10/tire it's still a better deal for me to use the drill method. Paul is definitely right about getting better life out of the tire with studs. Unless you're stacking on crazy miles, all you need is one set.


I have a whole summer to figure out my bike for next winter... it's going to drive me crazy.
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:17 PM   #195
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It's time to start planning!


It looks like I might get to throw a set of studdies on the Ruckus this year but there's no other bike on the horizon for a while. I won't be able to break through fresh, deep snow, but I should be able to get around on icy streets and parking lots.



Hey KL5A- what about a knobby rear and a DS front? The ride might improve through deep snow and be a little tamer on the road. Maybe stretch a 140-150/17 D606 to make the profile better and then a D607 front? That'd leave your snow braking to the rear alone, but that's all I used...

A TKC front would work, too, with a 606 or TKC rear and might smooth out the ride but would cost a fair bit more. 606s are dirt cheap here but TKCs are made of gold everywhere....
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