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Old 09-04-2010, 01:41 PM   #31
PJungnitsch
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That video is the older system, as John points out. It seemed pretty fast to me, but he still kindly sent the upgraded valve assembly.

I liked this work one enough I bought the new MLV-Y model with my own money.

It's a smaller and lighter, I like it a lot:







The idea of an indicator light though is a good one!

BTW the first faceplant was just posted with the MLV vest, seems to have worked very well:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=616868
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Old 09-04-2010, 11:37 PM   #32
nashopolis
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I'm curious how hot the vests are to ride in? Is it mostly mesh? In the same vein is the difference between the mesh full vests and the MLV just the amount of cosmetic material / does one function or wear more easily than the others.

I'm a cheap bastard but the neck bracing feature seems like 300 bones well spent if it works. When does the full body suit come out?
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:48 PM   #33
HaChayalBoded
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My buddy has two of these, how would he go about requesting the upgraded valve assembly?
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:54 PM   #34
SaferMoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaChayalBoded
My buddy has two of these, how would he go about requesting the upgraded valve assembly?
http://safermoto.com/products/option/index.html#keybox

How-to video:
http://safermoto.com/media/SaferMoto...x_upgrade.html
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:12 PM   #35
spaceharrier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashopolis
I'm curious how hot the vests are to ride in? Is it mostly mesh? In the same vein is the difference between the mesh full vests and the MLV just the amount of cosmetic material / does one function or wear more easily than the others.

I'm a cheap bastard but the neck bracing feature seems like 300 bones well spent if it works. When does the full body suit come out?
Not difficult to ride in. Fits well enough over all my jackets. The vest outer isn't mesh, and it also has the inflatable bladder packed inside which (obviously) isn't mesh either. So it doesn't flow air. Having said that, subjectively it hasn't seemed to me to restrict airflow much either, against whatever jacket you're wearing underneath. So some tradeoff, but nothing that makes things uncomfortable (for me).
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:18 AM   #36
Waco
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If these are effective, why aren't racers using them?
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:17 AM   #37
SaferMoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waco Kid
If these are effective, why aren't racers using them?
Some are.
Problem is a lack of knowledge of the product. Even though they have been around for more than 12 years, people just don't know about them.
We sponsor a number of racers and have sold vests to many more.
You seem to continue to insinuate that these are not effective and obviously they are.
Why you would want to discourage the product?
If you think they are a stupid and ineffective, that's lovely, don't get one. But I believe in the product and I have customers (and racers) who have been saved from serious injury because they were wearing one of our vests.
Racers: http://safermoto.com/racing.html
News and crash testimonials: http://safermoto.com/news.html
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:19 AM   #38
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I like the idea and am considering one.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:48 AM   #39
spaceharrier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waco Kid
If these are effective, why aren't racers using them?
Just because someone who could benefit from something isn't using it doesn't mean that the benefit isn't there. Lot's of reasons why something may not have yet caught on. Now to be a bit less smug, I actually think there are some fair questions here.

First, there's no standard (as far as I know) to measure effectiveness of these or other airbag vests. There also aren't that many out there to compare to one another. Some obvious questions:

  1. How much is force transfer reduced compared to regular armor?
  2. How often would you land on the bag, or would it brace something else?
  3. How quickly does the bag deploy when the tether is triggered?
  4. Does the assembly ever interfere in a way that might itself cause injury?

First, we want to know if it has a benefit beyond the armor we already wear. Second -- like the many current discussions around back protectors -- we want to know if it's going to come into play in a typical survivable accident. Of particular interest is the secondary bracing, especially for the neck. Also very important is how quickly the thing inflates vs. how quickly you end up impacting with one of those troublesomely solid objects. And last there is the keybox and CO2 cylinder on the lower right chest, which certainly contains enough material that it could hurt, so we want to know roughly how likely it is that it will hurt in various crash situations, with some data beyond "my dad's bartender's cousin once got his head chopped off by a seat belt so they're unsafe".

I own an MLV lightweight, having wondered all those things and decided that I think it's very likely to be a considerable net positive piece of protection in a survivable crash. Perhaps extending the survivability envelope some, too. But a bit of objective testing would be good, since all protection equipment represents a range of protection / comfort / cost tradeoffs.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:59 AM   #40
Waco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaferMoto
You seem to continue to insinuate that these are not effective and obviously they are.
Why you would want to discourage the product?
If you think they are a stupid and ineffective, that's lovely, don't get one.
You seem to misinterpret my posts. I'm just asking logical questions. Car airbags inflate instantly. I wonder if these vests inflate fast enough, especially if it has to pull a tether first. It would be better if it had a sensor on the motorcycle that activated the vest when it detected a level of deceleration only possible in an accident. But there could be situations where the rider decelerates and the bike doesn't. Much, if not most, of our modern protective gear has been developed through racing experience. Those guys crash way more often and at higher speeds, but they usually don't have to worry about SUVs. I think the idea has possibilities, but there are still bugs to be worked out. If it took the place of bulky body armor and provided the same protection in a more comfortable suit, that would be great.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:02 AM   #41
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Valentino Rossi is testing and advanced Dainese system that uses an accelerometer stashed in the hump of his leathers.

Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo to test the D-air® Racing system in Donington
Valentino will use the Dainese airbag for the first time at the Grand Prix race in Donington: Jorge will confirm the protective system’s validity

Years of dedicated airbag research and development bring an important result to Donington this weekend, where Dainese racers will use the D-air® Racing system in heavyweight class competition.

After the general fitting tests were completed, Valentino Rossi also decided to wear the suit with a D-air® in Donington Park. The champ from Tavullia has been following the development of the project closely for some time now, and in the last year has worked constantly with the D-Tec® (Dainese Technology Center) technicians to acquire the data required for its perfection.

Jorge Lorenzo was the first Moto GP Dainese racer that used the suit with the D-air® Racing system at last week’s Grand Prix race on the Sachsenring after taking an ugly spill in Laguna Seca: “I’m very proud to participate in the D-air® Racing system development project,” he said. “I believe this to be an extremely important innovation. After my falls in Laguna Seca, I no longer had any doubt that it was time to start wearing this new suit, which certainly offers more safety than the standard suit. Dainese has taken big steps forward in its perfection of the system, and we racers can make a further contribution in the creation of the prototype: we can’t stop now! Like any innovation, it takes a little time to get used to wearing the new suit, but I feel much safer with the system on and that’s the most important thing. I’d like to thank the entire Dainese team for all the precious work they’ve done to make motorcycle riding safer.”


Source: http://www.dainese.com/us_en/news/Va...ng_competition




Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcZ9egblcIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWnYC...eature=related
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:20 AM   #42
spaceharrier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waco Kid
YIt would be better if it had a sensor on the motorcycle that activated the vest when it detected a level of deceleration only possible in an accident. But there could be situations where the rider decelerates and the bike doesn't.
I've been wondering about this. Most obvious issue with the tether is remembering to hook it up. Second is that if you don't separate from the bike, your airbag won't inflate, though I don't know how often that's actually occur or not.

For the electronic version there seem to be plenty of gyros and accelerometers that could fit into a small crash sensor package. You'd need to include some logic regarding what accelerations and orientations counted as crash situations. If you've lowsided the bag should inflate, but not if you're scraping knee or peg as part of a turn. Guessing that logic would take a while to get right cutting the false negatives and positives and encoding sensor inputs into a model of controlled vs. crash situations. That alone would be very expensive in terms of development time and product liability issues. You'd also need a solenoid or something to actually trigger inflation of the bag, and the whole shooting match would need power.

Which is probably why it's taken Dainese so very long to release a version triggered by an electronics package. Seems like it still might be a while before that makes it into the commodity price range.

And actually, I have a suspicion that the tether covers a lot of typical crash situations, as long as you remember to hook it up. Of course, that hypothesis should be tested :)
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:36 AM   #43
Waco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceharrier
And actually, I have a suspicion that the tether covers a lot of typical crash situations, as long as you remember to hook it up. Of course, that hypothesis should be tested :)
I think you need the tether and the accelerometer. If you T-bone a car, your body is going to take a hard hit before the tether gets pulled. If you just lay the bike down, the accelerometer probably won't trigger. The tether makes me think my electric vest, and how I always forget to unplug it. Maybe it could be like a keyless remote and sense that your body is more than x-number of mm from the gas tank while the bike is moving.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:45 AM   #44
spaceharrier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waco Kid
I think you need the tether and the accelerometer. If you T-bone a car, your body is going to take a hard hit before the tether gets pulled. If you just lay the bike down, the accelerometer probably won't trigger. The tether makes me think my electric vest, and how I always forget to unplug it. Maybe it could be like a keyless remote and sense that your body is more than x-number of mm from the gas tank while the bike is moving.
Yeah, part of that logic package. RFID or Bluetooth (for example) so you know if you're near the bike, and perhaps if it's moving, you're moving but you don't agree on direction.

A lowside ought to manifest as the bike going downward whilst the rider and bike are at a severe lean angle. You'd need to sort out the difference between that and coming over a dip into a turn, but it all seems doable with enough time to figure it out.

Having an electronics package would also be nice for logging what actually happened in crashes. A bit ghoulish perhaps, but it would be good to have real data about what forces are visited on body and bike all the way through a crash.

Anyway, we're probably getting a bit geekish here. I still reckon the current airbag jackets likely offer a real safety benefit, and I'd still like to see a bunch of testing. I think that a full electronics package could offer benefits beyond a mechanical tether, but that the tether is still very useful.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:54 AM   #45
PJungnitsch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceharrier
...that hypothesis should be tested :)
I just about did yesterday, wanted to go for a ride but cold and wet and with no heated vest in I took the car.

BAM! End of the trip, coming home at dusk in the rain hit a deer, the third one in a year. The second one was with the work truck but the first one totaled my V-strom and was the reason I looked at this gear in the first place. Laying in the hospital with a crushed chest makes you very contemplative.

Now that more of this gear is around there is for sure going to be some accident reports filtering in.

I suspect these tether types are not going to help in all cases but will be a huge help in a lot. The nice part of the vests is they go overtop all your regular armor.
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