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Old 12-26-2009, 09:20 PM   #31
BMWzenrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard-NL
Zenrider, your “Dream Bike” allready exists, reading your specs. It will ride circles around the outfit you have now:


What?!?!
You temp me with these photos and no link to where I can get one???



Welcome back Richard!!!
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:49 AM   #32
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This it?

http://newsmagsidebike.free.fr/modul....php?pagenum=5
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Old 12-27-2009, 05:42 AM   #33
halflive
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dream hack...........mmmmh
i think that would be a R1150GS with an Ural tub.
I probably have to make a concession on comfort, to keep the wive pleased.
so the tub would be replaced with an EZS or a Bobby boot.
no fancy things like 2 wheel drive, GSA or reverse, just plain and simple.
in fact i would like to have a modern equivalent of the R75
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard-NL about a Zeus
Rode one like these, when it was still a “prototype” many years ago for a couple of thousand miles, when the dutch importer gave me one.
Let's start there, Richard.

Was it as good as the look & the specs would indicate?
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:01 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild
In just a couple more years, this is what I want!

Lor', Lor'...
My screen is kind of dark. I kept wondering what kind of disability he has.
I just realized he's sitting in a chair behind the sidecar!
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:49 AM   #36
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“We are turning into a nation of whimpering slaves to Fear—fear of war, fear of poverty, fear of random terrorism, fear of getting down-sized or fired because of the plunging economy, fear of getting evicted for bad debts or suddenly getting locked up in a military detention camp on vague charges of being a Terrorist sympathizer.” —”Extreme Behavior in Aspen,” February 3, 2003

"The State sees the spectre looming ahead of terrorism and anarchy, and this increases the risk of its over-reaction and a reduction in our freedom." - Stanley Kubrick
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Old 12-27-2009, 05:17 PM   #37
karitoki
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Please tell us the name (brand) of this sidecar setup.
Richard, after looking at the pics you have posted on Advrider on the various hack threads I am amazed at the technology, variety, and number of sidecars setups on your side of the pond. Are there licensing or tax advantages for owning a sidecar over a automobile over there, or is it just sheer popularity and passion that drives the euro sidecar industry?









Twowheeldrive, reverse gear, car engine (two litre, 130 Hp, 200 Nm), backwheel steering, you shift gears by touching the turnsignals (like you have on your beemer) heated chair that still can be opened and able to haul a decent trailer etc. and it’s a stock sidecar outfit.

Rode one like these, when it was still a “prototype” many years ago for a couple of thousand miles, when the dutch importer gave me one.

Richard-NL [/quote]
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:29 PM   #38
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slow........would like a lead-spitten MG 34 on there too.........




fast.......




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Old 12-28-2009, 03:57 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karitoki
Please tell us the name (brand) of this sidecar setup.
Zeus Sidebike.

Less than optimal, bloody sidecar is on the wrong side.



And that Vektor a few post ago. What a pus bucket!


Who, in their right mind, would want something like that??





That'd be me. But it's bloody-well on the wrong side
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:55 AM   #40
Richard-NL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karitoki
Please tell us the name (brand) of this sidecar setup.
Richard, after looking at the pics you have posted on Advrider on the various hack threads I am amazed at the technology, variety, and number of sidecars setups on your side of the pond. Are there licensing or tax advantages for owning a sidecar over a automobile over there, or is it just sheer popularity and passion that drives the euro sidecar industry?
Pure passion. And I (prejudiced sidecar fan) just like to show just a part of what’s available. Most european outfits cost more than an average car, but in my opinion you should not forget the fun factor and to compare it moneywise, is just not done.

Your question about the outfit has allready been answered:

SideBike Zeus

Richard-NL
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:13 AM   #41
Richard-NL
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SideBike Zeus

Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRph
Let's start there, Richard.

Was it as good as the look & the specs would indicate?
SideBike Zeus?

It must have been 2001 or 2002. As you can see by the pic, a long time ago. It’s a scanned pre-digital pic of the Zeus outfit I rode back then.



Actually, I rode the same outfit allready a couple of months before, but at that time it had still some “child-diseases” as you can expect from a prototype or a pre-1st series. I even helped wrenching on it. After these issues were supposed to be solved, the Dutch importer of this French outfit, made in the “SideBike” factory of Frenchman Jean Claude Perrin, phoned me if I was interested in testing this outfit for a week or so. At that time, there was not much (zero to none) information about this outfit, not even in the sidecar magazines.

Fancy pics can be found on the internet.

SideBike Zeus

As a sidecar enthousiast I accepted of course and the outfit was brought to me. I only had to bring the rider who rode it to me, to the train station. I remember this funny situation very well, because he sat with all his motorcycle gear in the chair and when we arrived at the train station he came out looking like a tomato, because het didn’t (neither did I) know how to shut off the blower/ heater. This guy melted, I can tell you.

Back to the outfit. I’ve ridden it a couple of thousand miles. Sometimes my wife followed me on the Pan European EML outfit.

The seat position on the “bike”is very comfortable. It looks a bit like a scooter, but I would compare the seat position to the one of a Hardly Electra Glide, which is a good position for all day riding. Do not compare it to a Goldwing (1100-1200-1500), where you sit on like a sack of potatoes. It’s more active as it looks. There’s pretty much space between your legs.

It looks huge, but that’s perception. It’s long (2.60 meters) but not that wide (only 1.85 meters). Fuelled up it weighs about 650 Kg.

At first you have to adapt your way of thinking. There’s no throttle, clutch or brake handles on the steering bar. Neither a starter button. You start with the key in the dashboard, just like in a car. Just before that, you’ve checked if it’s in neutral, by looking at the “car meters” in front of you, where you can see a digital gear position. Clutch is activated with your left foot, on the right side is a brake pedal for the integral brakes, including ABS on wish. Next to it the gas pedal. Yep, just like in a car. Before you ride off, don’t forget the parking brake, which is on your right side and the caliper is on the rear wheel.

The engine sounds like a modern sportive car but really quiet. You can see that SideBike did its best to have it look a bit like a motorcycle, by using two exhaust pipes. (not on this pic, showing the engine). You can allmost put a golf ball in them.



Engine runs. Taking off in first gear by applying the clutch with your left foot, push the button with your thumb (it looks like a turn signal button) on the right-side of the handlebar, which puts the gearbox in 1st gear. It’s an ordinary H-gearbox. Changing gears is done electrical / mechanical with a servo and a large ring with slots in it, that moves the “stick” in the right position. It takes pretty long and you cannot compare it to a motorcycle gear box. When shifting from one to another gear (right button on the handle bar is “UP”, left button is “DOWN”) you see a “flash” telling you that the gear position has changed and you can let the clutch come up. When you do this earlier, the clutch pedal wil stay in it’s downward position. You cannot make a mistake. Like on a motorcycle you have to go through all the gears, also when downshifting with the button on the left side of the handlebar. Impossible to shift gears fast. Reverse gear is also activated, when in neutral, you use the button on the left side of the handle bar. It takes a while, before a motorcyclist does this automatically, but nothing wrong with it. (Long story but it’s a big difference, just saying it’s operated like a car, is just not right).

The 2 liter, 16 valve engine of the PSA branch (Citroën and Peugeot) is strong. Around 135 Hp and allmost 200 Nm, designed for a car that weighs twice as much, says enough. It’s not really the Hp that does it, it’s the enormous torque at low revs (Max torque at around 4.000 rpm) that makes this engine impressive. I’ve been able to start off in 5th gear. Taking over a bunch of cars, you just need to put the “pedal to the metal” without downshifting.

It has two wheel drive with shafts. IOT have lead on the sidecar wheel, a chain box is used with two relative small sprockets in an oil bath. Not confirmed, but it looks to me like it has been made / designed by Quaife in the UK. Inspection table says the chain needs to be changed after 200,000 Km.

All rigid SideBike outfits have a steering sidecarwheel. Not this one. Because of the twowheel drive I think, they chose to have the rear wheel counter steer, which makes very short turns possible, including stand still turnaround powerslides on a narrow road.

On the “Autobahn” speeds close to 200 KmH are possible. Cruising at 160 Kmh (100 Mph) all day long is just as easy. Protection from the elements is great. There’s hardly any wind coming from the sidecar. My right foot got a little cold and my left foot a little warm. I know that adapted foot shields are available now.



Or a higher windscreen.



Riding it on curvy roads is just as easy. The steering is light, you don’t have to rev up the engine. On both kind of roads, comfort is great, possibly also caused by the “White Power” shocks. Stability is great, also because of the weight ratio.

This outfit had the optional “sway bar”, but I must admit, I didn’t feel the difference with the one I rode before without it. Same for the ABS. The ABS is fortunately not too active. You don’t block the wheels, but it’s still possible the have the tires “scream for mercy”. Brakes are great and it brakes in a streight line, like a lot of other components they’re from the same car.

Steering is light, like I said. It doesn’t have a steering damper. I would put one on it. Reason only, for use riding backwards. As you all understand, riding backwards changes the lead to negative. Ural riders definitely know what I mean. Riding backwards, with the wide (front) wheel in a pothole or a curved channel, can abruptly effect the ability to hold the steering bar. Just saying. Going backwards with a sidecar (all sidecars) should be done with great attention.

Another Ural thingy. Because of the twowheel drive, full throttle accellaration, makes the outfit go to the left side, in stead of the right side, like on normal (right) handed outfits. This, together with the enormous torque, you can make beautifull powerslides in fast left corners. It has a bit of an oversteering, which is great. Don’t get me wrong, this effect is easy to handle and the steering goes automatically ones you know.

It has the same wide 195/50-15 inch wheels all around. Most people have an extra set of steel rims with wintertyres. Single arm and car parts all around. No issues here.

Fuel economy? Comparable to all larger modern outfits. Maybe just a littlebit more fuel efficiënt. Range? Comparable to a ST1100 or a FJR1300. The fuel tank is just as large. I would have liked a larger fuel tank, since this was easy to realise.

Comments from the chair? A bit difficult to get into the chair. The front window is pretty low, so are the seats. Two normal sized adults can sit in it comfortably. Two seat belts are stock. When the chair is closed, the heater / blower can cope with the greatest cold, also preventing the windshield to fog up. Of course radio possibillities on both the bike and the chair. Small pockets for road maps and even a “glove compartment”. The sound of the engine is not bothering, it’s pretty silent. With the side open, some wind gets into it, but you can hang in a half sidedoor.



Luggage. A total of 400 liters of luggage space on this outfit. Since the engine is in the back of the chair, only a reasonably small compartment is available on top of the engine. Still bigger as two Velorexes together though, but compared to the Dutch EML and EZS family outfits (or even a large Hannigan) it’s small. Also I wouldn’t transport any butter in it. It gets pretty warm. More something to put your sleeping bags in. In the bottom of the trunk are maintenance hatches for the engine. Most luggage has to be put underneath the saddle. There’s no engine there, remember. In front there’s the fuse box and some electrical parts (gears) and the fuel tank. At that time I made the joke, that you could bring a lot of socks, but not a chair. You will have to change your camping gear if you normally use traditional folding chairs and tables. On the outfit I rode, I still had to take off the complete saddle. I know that changes have been made, like a hinge on the front of the saddle or other solutions.



Also a back rack is available or you can use a luggage rack that’s normally used on convertibles on top of the sidecar.




What should be added to this outfit? An automatic gearbox. This kind of engine just deserves it. Probably weight issues or maybe PSA didn’t want to deliver an automatic. I don’t know. Diesel Engine? A Dutchman (what else) allready has put a diesel engine in it, just for fun, allthough he rides a lot with it. It was more difficult to do that, than initially thought. I don’t really see a need for it. Cruise control. The comfort of this outfit just askes for it. Funny thing. After a two hour ride on the highway at a constant speed, I wanted to accelerate and turned the handlebar with my right hand. Larger fuel tank would be appreciated by me. Also a bit more of ground clearance, but that’s all personal. Heated grips should be stock. (Now you have to buy an aftermarket set for a quad, since both handlebars are the same. Steering damper (see above). Well, a lot of accesoiries are allready availabe.



Maintenance. Hardly any as with all modern (european) cars. 20,000 Km oil change, 80,000 Km timer belt, some spark plugs and brake pads now and then. That’s it.

Is this a HP sidecar? There are faster ones (Hayabusa, Blackbird), but the engine is just great. Is this an off road sidecar. Of course not, but fire lanes, snowy roads can be ridden with it. Where was it designed for? According to SideBike, they wanted to make a Grand Tour Sidecar, with the luxury of a Goldwing type of outfit. Still this thing goes very fast and handles great.



Cost? Expensive? A lot of money? Comparable to a proper european outfit, where most of the time a lot of parts are thrown away (wheels, fork etc). Just see what a FJR1300 EML outfit or a 1800 Goldwing costs. This outfit will cost me approx the same as two Ural Gear Ups. But will last (at least enginewise) twice as long. Bad comparison, I know.

If you allready start with questions regarding an outfit, whether you need a LL, a brake on your chair or car wheels, this is probably nothing for you. Then you’ll never understand it.

People who ride this outfit, are on an age, where they have time to go anywhere (even in the snow), do 60,000 Km a year or have two kids, want to use a heavy trailer for camping equipment or just like a good cornering outfit, without any maintenance issues.



Over 250 units of this stock outfit have been sold by now. All “child-diseases” should be gone by now. Factory allmost went bankrupt, partially on the design cost for it. Second-hand it’s difficult to get. In the beginning there were some available, from people who made a wrong choice. Other people don’t want anything else anymore.

When this outfit came on the market, there was of course the discussion if this still was a motorcycle with a sidecar. Or maybe an asymetric trike? But what about a Krauser Domani, a Corda, a Vektor or all the F1 and F3 racing sidecars. They’re all seen as a sidecar outfit. Maybe the looks will stop you, but not the ride. This thing rides like a sidecar. And a pretty good one. Why don’t I have one? Well, you can’t have them all.

I wrote this, without editing anything, (this is not a sidecar magazine, is it?) so I probably forgot something. I’m quite sure to be able to answer any questions or clear up some things.

Richard-NL
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Old 12-30-2009, 06:54 AM   #42
claude
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Many here who have visited our shop may have met Doug Eaton who we call Professor Polish. Doug does a great job of cleaning the finshed outfits and trikes before they go out and trying to keep things in some sort of order around here. Anyhow Doug's daughter. Shannon. who is 8 years old hangs with us a little also and has acquired quite a bit of knowledge about sidecars. Below are plans that Shannon submitted for her Dream Sidecar. Cool Huh?
She also says she wants an 1150GSA outfit like the one that took Brian Rosa and Ellie to Alaska below.


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claude screwed with this post 12-30-2009 at 07:06 AM
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Old 12-30-2009, 07:39 AM   #43
Sidecarjohn
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Carry on Dreaming

When I stop dreaming about my ideal sidecar outfit, then I'll be worried. So many possibilities from classic to spaceship Zeus, and everything in between.

Do lean (not the sidecar though) towards a turbo diesel set up for sidecar appropriate power characteristics - punch, good cruising speed, and importantly pension friendly fuel consumption. The 1.4 three cylinder VW engine in our car would do just fine. Wonder if there's a chance now that the German auto company has just acquired a 20% stake in Suzuki ?

Sidecar ? Comfortable for the lady wife with handling to match !
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:57 AM   #44
AceRph
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Sidebike Zeus

Nice write up! Thanks Richard.
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“We are turning into a nation of whimpering slaves to Fear—fear of war, fear of poverty, fear of random terrorism, fear of getting down-sized or fired because of the plunging economy, fear of getting evicted for bad debts or suddenly getting locked up in a military detention camp on vague charges of being a Terrorist sympathizer.” —”Extreme Behavior in Aspen,” February 3, 2003

"The State sees the spectre looming ahead of terrorism and anarchy, and this increases the risk of its over-reaction and a reduction in our freedom." - Stanley Kubrick
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:28 AM   #45
twintwin
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next generation dream



[/quote]

Nice drawing Shannon, I'm sure you are in good hands with your dad and Claude to help you build your dream sidecar.

My youngest one, Paul (who BTW met Shannon in PA last summer at the RDV rally), just finished his dream rig.




A couple pictures with # angles, because Paul is wondering if Claude could be up to the challenge to build one.
But Claude don't worry, you have time to brain storm about it, Paul is only Ten,




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