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Old 01-18-2010, 04:16 AM   #76
tricepilot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardU
I recently tried most of the Windows programs and found that the best is Magix Movie Edit Pro 15+.
A coincidence that you mention Magix, see the Amazon review below (bracketed by the stars)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashnak
I personally like Corel

most of these products have a free trial period. I'd suggest you take advantage and compare.
That's an excellent suggestion

HERES THE BOTTOM LINE: Many of us are buying the Go Pro Hero HD AND getting into video editing for the first time. Easy, right? Reading review after review on Amazon of the various video editing software out there, it is beginning to appear that unless you have a VERY high end computer and a degree from MIT on video editing, you are in for a very long learning curve. Reason: video editing in general can be complicated but HD video editing throws another curve - it requires another level of home computer capability (pure processing power) that a video noob may not anticipate. Most of the reviews on Premiere Elements, for example, reported time after time how often that program crashed. I think the producers of these programs are under pressure to market feature-filled products to compete with the competition, all the while such features for HD video editing are like trying to stuff an elephant into a phone booth ( a comment on what computing platforms at the manufacturer must be like compared to the typical home computer set up).

THE HOLY GRAIL: To take the HD output from the Go Pro Hero, string together a bunch of clips, add a simple sound track and maybe a title, and upload it to Smugmug or Vimeo and go back out riding. I'm not looking to create the home version of Avatar in 3D here. (system is a fairly new windows based computer with a 1 TB hard drive, 4 G of RAM and a decent video card with 1 G of memory)

As far as Amazon reviews, after reading all the bad reviews of Adobe Premiere Elements, I ran into this on on Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum Pro Pack. I included it here as it seems to be a good generalization of the task ahead in finding a good program.

**************************************

"Let Me Save You Some Grief" by "Wendell" on Amazon.com

I've been doing some research on Camcorders and Video Editing Software. If you do a search for the top ten video editing software programs and choose one for HD Video Editing, you will inevitably be disappointed. If you buy an HD Camcorder for under $2000 expecting the in the box Video Editing Software to match the capabilities of the camcorder you will inevitably be disappointed. Many people realize the quality of Photoshop Elements 8 for editing photographs. This remains undisputed. Photoshop has unfortunately come up with a program that combines Photoshop Elements 8 and Premier Elements. Premier elements is an utter failure and disappointment (see reviews). In order to avoid this catastrophe and because many people already own and use Photoshop Elements, they are opting to go with Movie Studio 9 and their Photoshop Elements. This will also lead to problems for many because of issues with Microsoft compatibilty. Most of the top ten products run into conflicts with both Windows XP and Vista Operating systems and are a complete question mark when it comes to Windows 7. Hopefully ITRON will eliminate the Microsoft monopoly soon and once and for all. The first bit data that all consumers should know regarding HD camcorders is that the consumer level software is nowhere up to par with HD. In fact its probably going to be considered to be crap by most. Some of the things to look for in a real HD video editor are: XDCAM file import, Exchange with other post production programs, Multicam editing, Native AVCHD editing, 3-way color correction, Flexible user interface, Precise keyframe functions with Bézier curves, Batch conversion, Image stabilization, 3D title effects, Timestretching, GPU hardware acceleration, Real-time audio mixer, Dolby® Digital 5.1 Surround sound, DVD authoring module with up to 8 audio tracks, Output on Blu-ray Disc (with 6-channel Surround sound). Its got to have that. Also, there is a problem trying to get your video editing software to work together. In order to edit HD video you will need a computer with the following (this is not mentioned by the people at Best Buy, the Geek Squad or anywhere I can find online (being an electronics technician trained in building computers and industrial type computers, I know these things). I can see a lot of people headed for some frustrating and expensive let downs. First, in order to do any type of HD editing you will need a computer that has a Pentium 4, 3GHz with hyperthreading or a dual-core with at least 1.3GHz. You need at least 2GB of RAM, actually more than that. You need direct X compatibility. You need a GeForce 6600 Video Card or better (or equivalent). Second, in order to do any kind of editing with the new and improved (soon to be standard) video format called AVCHD you will need at least 3GB of RAM and at least a 2.66GHz 2-Quad Microprocessor. You also need at the least, an ATI Radeon HD 3000 series with 512MB of VRAM. You need to look outside the usual choices at a video editor around the $300 range. With that you will get everything in one software package, no compatibility issues and you know it will work on Windows 7. Try Magix Pro trial, I did. I haven't had any problems, and I'm buying it today.

**************************************

I'm off to check out Magix Pro and Corel reviews next....hope to come to some sort of conclusion and recommendation so that all the Go Pro Hero HD buyers will have an easier time taking their video to the web and then into ride reports.

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Old 01-18-2010, 10:54 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tricepilot
A coincidence that you mention Magix, see the Amazon review below (bracketed by the stars)

That's an excellent suggestion

HERES THE BOTTOM LINE: Many of us are buying the Go Pro Hero HD AND getting into video editing for the first time. Easy, right? Reading review after review on Amazon of the various video editing software out there, it is beginning to appear that unless you have a VERY high end computer and a degree from MIT on video editing, you are in for a very long learning curve. Reason: video editing in general can be complicated but HD video editing throws another curve - it requires another level of home computer capability (pure processing power) that a video noob may not anticipate. Most of the reviews on Premiere Elements, for example, reported time after time how often that program crashed. I think the producers of these programs are under pressure to market feature-filled products to compete with the competition, all the while such features for HD video editing are like trying to stuff an elephant into a phone booth ( a comment on what computing platforms at the manufacturer must be like compared to the typical home computer set up).



I'm off to check out Magix Pro and Corel reviews next....hope to come to some sort of conclusion and recommendation so that all the Go Pro Hero HD buyers will have an easier time taking their video to the web and then into ride reports.

The above is why I have avoided the HD GoPro or the CountourHD. I've got a 4 year old-ish Pentium 4, hard drive almost full, 2.5 gigs of RAM, and a 320 external hard drive. As an amateur/ hobbyist photographer, I use Photoshop Lightroom 2.6, Nikon Capture NX2, Adobe Illustrator, InDesign and Photoshop Elements 7, all day long. Ain't no speed freak, but all this digital photo stuff is used and useful on the P.4. Editing AVCHD, though, is gonna put me outta bizness, until I get a new computer, from what I read and hear. Your point about buying HD and thinking you can go to your old computer and make a nifty HD movie (other than just putting up the raw footage) is well taken. It is not like buying a new stills camera with more Megapixels. You're gonna need new/ more processing power.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:05 PM   #78
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Problem Solved

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Old 01-18-2010, 01:36 PM   #79
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Thumb Editing HD - long

To start with I've been editing for a living for a long time. 20+ years long. This means that in my circle ( and sometimes well outside of it) I get the calls about video cameras and editing.

This year has been a busy one as everyone seems to have gotten an HD camera for Xmas. Leading up to Christmas were the questions on which one to buy, now I'm getting the queries on how to operate them and edit the mysterious files. Usually I start off by scaring the people into backing up the files. Back up means the file exists in 2 separate places on 2 diferent drives, ideally in 2 diferent countries.

Back to GoPro. For a start the GoPro HD can shoot standard definition. That will save you a pile of troubles right of the bat. If you are posting to the web or DVD it is more than sufficient.

"But HD is better and I must have it at all costs". If you must have HD then yes you will need a more powerful computer, lots of Ram, lots of drive space and a decent program. How are you planning on watching this? Do you have a BluRay burner? Do you want to just watch what you shot or do you need to edit it? I don't shoot a lot of home video since I know I won't get around to editing it and I can't watch hours of unedited crap.

In the past I always recommended that if you didn't already have a computer to just go out and buy a Mac. It comes with all the software and it works. I don't even own any Macs anymore but for this application it is hard to beat.

"But I'm a PC guy and hate integrated solutions that work". Well now you are in trouble. There are some great pro apps for the PC. Avid is the most common. 2400$, student pricing is 300$. Great app but steep curve for the novice. Sony Vegas understand AVCHD natively and a baby version is 85$ if you want to burn BluRays. Premier Pro is also capable but 6-700$. The Elements version is about 80$. Which one is best? Hard to say. They all are basically the same in the most basic sense. You choose a piece of video from what you shot and stick it on the timeline where you are building your new clip. Choose a bunch more clips, put them in the order you like, add some music and a title or two. Think of it as word processing of video. You can cut and paste and reorder items. The beauty is that you never actually cut up or lose any of your original footage. You simply create a new video made up of copied pieces of your original. Then out to DVD, BluRay or YouTube.

They all have trail versions that work so download and play with it before you leap. Make sure your system meets the specs. Save your work frequently. Enable the autosave feature(if available) so that it saves often. Then you only lose a few minutes work and not hours when there is a crash. Remember that all these new files that you are creating need to backed up as well. Hard drives always fail, the only question is when.

It will take some time to develop a workflow that works for you. Expect to invest some time in this, even on the Mac! If you computer is bogged down with a million temp files, all kinds of utilities running and an overly active virus / spyware program you are in trouble.

One last thought. Owning a paintbrush doesn't make you a painter. I've got a very nice DSLR kit but I'm no photographer. Be realistic about what you can do. It is certainly within the power of most computer savvy people to make a decent video.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:06 PM   #80
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GoPro HD

The extra packs that snap on come with a new rear lid which accommodates the added depth. There will also be a new housing with holes which allows you to keep the camera powered up by the bike using the USB port.


Quote:
Originally Posted by munchmeister
I'm not sure how it will work either. From the looks of things, it would be used when you are off bike and you open your case and plug it in and review your just taken videos. Otherwise, I agree, it may be of dubious value.

Yes, wide angle is fine for framing your shots as long as you know the camera is filming. The teeny weensy light and the icons just are too damned small to tell you anything at all. They might as well not be there in my view. I'd just like to see something that you could actually SEE that gives you some idea of battery life and whether you are filming. The ContourHD has these things, e.g. a 3 way light for battery power (full, low, gone) and a light that you can SEE that tells you, you are filming. Anyway, just adding my thoughts. A lot of folks seem to be interested in videoing rides (like me) and like to have as much info as possible before spending their cash. My main idea was for video documentation of the longer trips I take so my particular needs might be a lot different from a dirt rider who is more interested in capturing a couple of hours, then heading home to transfer video.

What I am really looking for, for my purposes, is a small digital video recorder that I can plug my Sony bullet camera into, and record the ride. That way I can put the bullet camera on my helmet or mounted on the bike and put a small DVR or Handycam in the tankbag. I have a Sony Handycam that uses MiniDV tapes but would like to find one with SD card capability that has an "AV in" port. Anybody got ideas for one of those?
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:08 PM   #81
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Old Computer

Shoot in standard def as the HDPro supports that format as well. If AVCHD is too much for the old 'puter convert it to Quicktime or AVI and then edit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by munchmeister
The above is why I have avoided the HD GoPro or the CountourHD. I've got a 4 year old-ish Pentium 4, hard drive almost full, 2.5 gigs of RAM, and a 320 external hard drive. As an amateur/ hobbyist photographer, I use Photoshop Lightroom 2.6, Nikon Capture NX2, Adobe Illustrator, InDesign and Photoshop Elements 7, all day long. Ain't no speed freak, but all this digital photo stuff is used and useful on the P.4. Editing AVCHD, though, is gonna put me outta bizness, until I get a new computer, from what I read and hear. Your point about buying HD and thinking you can go to your old computer and make a nifty HD movie (other than just putting up the raw footage) is well taken. It is not like buying a new stills camera with more Megapixels. You're gonna need new/ more processing power.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:42 PM   #82
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Just a note.
Both the Contour and the Gopro use H.264 compression creating a .mov or .mp4 file, not the AVCHD format. These files will be easier to deal with than AVCHD, which is considerably more demanding and software is limited to edit it natively. The file formats will not change regardless of the resolution (std or HD) you shoot at. Also, when you shoot at the lowest resolution (848x480) on the gopro, its shoots at 60fps, which creates roughly the same amount of data as the 1280x720 @30fps setting.



Heres another vid, from the other day.

Barra Backroads from j b on Vimeo.


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Old 01-18-2010, 04:48 PM   #83
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The last buch of posts from the video vets - info packed & very helpful

In a thread like this, when posting "hey, look at what I can do", it is helpful to the rest of us (me) if you include your editing software and hosting site - plus any more tips to make the GoPro Hero a real tool.

Keep it comin'

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Old 01-18-2010, 04:50 PM   #84
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PS Interesting that there's a lot of Vimeo hosting going on, in light of the fact that Smugmug also hosts video, and is Baldy's own territory
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:02 PM   #85
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Avchd

AVCHD is an MPEG4, H264 variant. Just in another wrapper. So no easier or harder to play than other H264 long GOP formats of similar size and data rate. Sometimes harder to get into your system since Panasonic and Sony got together to create yet a new "format".



Quote:
Originally Posted by greenthumb
Just a note.
Both the Contour and the Gopro use H.264 compression creating a .mov or .mp4 file, not the AVCHD format. These files will be easier to deal with than AVCHD, which is considerably more demanding and software is limited to edit it natively. The file formats will not change regardless of the resolution (std or HD) you shoot at. Also, when you shoot at the lowest resolution (848x480) on the gopro, its shoots at 60fps, which creates roughly the same amount of data as the 1280x720 @30fps setting.



Heres another vid, from the other day.

Barra Backroads from j b on Vimeo.

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Old 01-18-2010, 05:07 PM   #86
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Just please, please edit. I'm so tired of seeing long boring sections of helmet and bike mounted camera shots. Nobody cares! Use good lighting at a good time of day and keep the clips short and sweet. Think of your video as a mosaic of short and interesting clips, not long and boring with "totally crushing" soundtracks.

(Not aimed specifically at anyone or any single video, just generally speaking)
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Old 01-18-2010, 06:11 PM   #87
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Quote:
AVCHD is an MPEG4, H264 variant. Just in another wrapper. So no easier or harder to play than other H264 long GOP formats of similar size and data rate
I didn't say AVCHD wasn't H.264. I said, these cams create self contained .mov or .mp4 files, not the AVCHD filestructure. You can stick a memory card in your computer and 'drag and drop' these files like you would a .jpeg or any other file, and play it on most players, making it simple for amateurs. With AVCHD, this is not the case, but these cams do not use AVCHD, so its irrelevant.

Quote:
PS Interesting that there's a lot of Vimeo hosting going on, in light of the fact that Smugmug also hosts video, and is Baldy's own territory
I wasn't aware of any association of smugmug with advrider. I don't usually use a standalone hosting site, but since I'm on the road, its my way of getting large video files to my friends and family. Vimeo is free (albeit limited), while smugmug is not, but looks like it has good offerings.

Quote:
In a thread like this, when posting "hey, look at what I can do", it is helpful to the rest of us (me) if you include your editing software and hosting site - plus any more tips to make the GoPro Hero a real tool.
Sorry, that was not my intention. Here are some details, ask if you want to know more.

Shot in r2 mode; 1280x720@30fps (although its really 29.97fps)
Using a late model MacBook Pro.
Edited using Final Cut in the native format, resolution and framerate.
Exported as a 1280x720p@29.97fps .mov file in H.264 using Compressor. this particular vid was 512Mb completed.
I didn't time it, but the final render took about an hour to complete.
Used Handbrake to downsize the file slightly in order to meet free Vimeo's 500Mb cap.




Quote:
Just please, please edit. I'm so tired of seeing long boring sections of helmet and bike mounted camera shots. Nobody cares! Use good lighting at a good time of day and keep the clips short and sweet. Think of your video as a mosaic of short and interesting clips, not long and boring with "totally crushing" soundtracks.
I know my editing is rather simple, but I don't want to spend hours on the computer - I'm on holidays and traveling and are making them as a means to keep in touch. I can assure you, that my family and friends whom they are intended for, do care about seeing them regardless of their professionalism.

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Old 01-18-2010, 06:28 PM   #88
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Not trying to get anyone's undies in a knot. Just saying that AVCHD, H264, MPEG4 are basically the same thing. Even the Flash video on YouTube is really 264 in a flash wrapper. Therefore one or the other isn't inherently easier to play with in terms of CPU requirements. We should see everyone getting on the AVCHD bandwagon soon to allow direct import. I sure hope Avid steps up as I know the day is coming when someone is going to walk in the door with reams of the stuff and want to edit right away. Almost makes me miss tapes....

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenthumb
I didn't say AVCHD wasn't H.264. I said, these cams create .mov or .mp4 files, not the AVCHD filestructure. You can stick a memory card in your computer and 'drag and drop' these files like you would any other file, making it simple for amateurs. With AVCHD you cannot do this without importation software.

snip
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Old 01-18-2010, 06:38 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenthumb
I know my editing is rather simple, but I don't want to spend hours on the computer -

Just to be clear- not pointing any comments at you- I don't know if I've ever seen any of your videos. Just making a general comment.

Hope you were not offended.
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:20 PM   #90
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No worries guys! Nothing taken pesonally!

I totally understand and agree. Any clip more than a few seconds long can get boring with this type of stuff to other riders.

I think, as a very rough guideline, using Final Cut, it takes one hour of editing time per one minute of finished video. Double that, if you want it complex.

I just cant justify riding most of the day and spending all evening cooped up in the hotel editing instead of going out exploring.


My 'real' cam, that I use use for underwater videos, uses AVCHD. I got it when AVCHD was relatively new on the consumer market and hardly supported. It was quite a learning curve as my first HD experience. With practice, like anything, it got easier. It seems to becoming much more popular.
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