Great Western Trail Tracks Wanted bits and pieces OK!!!!

[HogWild]

Jerry, on the D37 thread you mentioned being blocked by a "giant lake" on the way to a GC lookout point. Looking at your tracks, I'm guessing that's the lake next to your white "Track 020a" (Black Spot Reservoir). We went through that exact spot in March with no water at all. But I knew there could be water based on Google Earth, so I had planned work-arounds. I've attached those un-ridden work-around tracks here. These tracks are existing roads I could see in GE.

We also rode that beautiful road between Tuba City and The Gap. Excellent!!!

Between Cameron and Tuba City the road looks like it isn't taveled much and may have a lot of washouts. How was it?

Oh, and did you use any of the GWT tracks I drew? Just curious if it's a waste of time, or helpful?

[HogWild]

Originally Posted by Countdown

Didn't want to attack this washout.

There was an easy work-around on that one (see attached track and Sat image below). Though that canyon goes on for another mile with many creek crossings before you come out up top. Might have gotten a lot worse further up.

[HogWild]

Around washout (magenta track), with your turn around point at arrow ...

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by HogWild

Jerry, on the D37 thread you mentioned being blocked by a "giant lake" on the way to a GC lookout point. Looking at your tracks, I'm guessing that's the lake next to your white "Track 020a" (Black Spot Reservoir).

We also rode that beautiful road between Tuba City and The Gap. Excellent!!!

Between Cameron and Tuba City the road looks like it isn't taveled much and may have a lot of washouts. How was it?

Oh, and did you use any of the GWT tracks I drew? Just curious if it's a waste of time, or helpful?

That was it, should have taken picture. See my Active Log where I got there. How was that view? On map it looks like it is the best on south side but North side are great. also looks like Navajo tried to promote it based on their road number.

How was sand on Tuba-Gap? It was a little damp so not too bad but I was ver careful out there alone. Again if you love western landscapes that trail defines Arizona Navajo country.

It is so barren between Cameron and Tuba you can't believe that just north of Tuba it is beautiful beyond belief. I passed about 20 cows near some water and I have no idea what they eat. A mile later a nice indian stopped me and ask if I was just sight seeing. He said he found some guy out there shooting a while back and that he had 50 cows out there. I said no guns just riding through. He was with 2 other SUVs and aobut 10 people who were walking around. He siad they were sight seeing but there was nothing but nothing to see? At the north end where it gets a little twisty is becomes a fun ride.

I did not get as far as your tracks, next year. That is why I gave wbbnm file above, hoping he will get to some of it. Take a look. Big Dog rode some of your tracks a few years ago so I know they are good.

[HogWild]

Originally Posted by Countdown

How was sand on Tuba-Gap? It was a little damp so not too bad but I was ver careful out there alone. Again if you love western landscapes that trail defines Arizona Navajo country.

The sand was only slightly challenging, but then again me and the guys with me aim for the hardest stuff, so that sand was not even close to what we normally call difficult. I wouldn't want to be there on a big bike though!

Originally Posted by Countdown

He was with 2 other SUVs and aobut 10 people who were walking around. He siad they were sight seeing but there was nothing but nothing to see?

There were probably out there drinking. No drinking allowed on Navajo/Hopi land, so they go off in the middle of nowhere to do it. We saw some of that too, and verified it with a talkative local.

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by HogWild

There were probably out there drinking. No drinking allowed on Navajo/Hopi land, so they go off in the middle of nowhere to do it. We saw some of that too, and verified it with a talkative local.

There were a lot of women and looked rather upscale although they were a hundred yards off the road. They could have found a much better place to drink.

On the day before, I turned off the GC highway and found a street bike crashed, the seat was 10-15 feet away, one indian laying over the bike kind of hugging the head light and another laying beside the bike. As I was getting out my sat phone to call 911, I shouted "are you alive?". One of them lifted his head and threw a bear can away. I walked over and there was no blood any where. I can't believe I forget to snap a picture.

I came back 1 1/2 hours later to take a picture and they were up trying to get the bike back to the highway.

Take a look at the attached file on GE. I drew these from the forest map and look like they follow the hiking GWT as close as possible and gets to Torrey. If you like them can you modify your original tracks? There is a waypoint on ridge where FS map is not clear if it is motorized which would be a show stopper.

[Pantah]

To the four of you trying to create this new route: I read this thread thru, so I guess I can conclude there are no plug and play tracks ready for prime time by us coat tailers...

I finished the CDR using Cannonshot's tracks and left my bike in Cave Creek last week. My plan is to rent an apartment March/April next year and explore with my little Yamaha WR2R. I was hoping to do the AZ section of this trail. Is that reasonable?

How far north can I ride before hitting snow issues? I lived in Scottsdale for a few years so I know the weather down there, but can't remember much north of the rim.

Should I just save BigDog's tracks and try to ride that as far as I can?

Thanks

[HogWild]

Originally Posted by Pantah

so I guess I can conclude there are no plug and play tracks ready for prime time by us coat tailers...

Correct. We're trying to create such tracks. We're far from done.

Originally Posted by Countdown

Take a look at the attached file on GE. I drew these from the forest map and look like they follow the hiking GWT as close as possible and gets to Torrey. If you like them can you modify your original tracks? There is a waypoint on ridge where FS map is not clear if it is motorized which would be a show stopper.

Your "Option 1" track does not line up with the GWT overlay map. I don't think you'll find that to be a real part of GWT. The 2 tracks I drew going North from Hwy 12 (West and East of your "Option 1" track) ARE on the GWT map as best I can tell.

Your "Option 2" track also does not line up with the GWT overlay map. Again, I don't think you'll find that to be a real part of GWT. The track I drew "UT Wild-Hog 2" near there that is in your file IS on the GWT map, as best I can tell.

Your "Option 3" track may have issues. I've attached a gpx with a tweaked version of your track, plus a few waypoints. First, again, it doesn't line up, so probably not GWT. Based on my attached gpx file, from "Point1" the road looks good going South. It starts degrading a bit by the time you get to the intersection at "Point2". At "Point3" my guess is it turns into a hiking trail. At that point you drop 500 ft pretty quick, and I see no road from "Point3" to "Point4". At your "Is It FWD?" point, yes, it's a muddy 4WD road, though no way to know if it's a legal road. At "Point5" you hit a large turn-around loop that clearly looks like a solid legal road. At "Point5" my track departs from yours over to a really solid gravel road. Your track looks pretty sketchy, then crosses a very rocky wash near "Point7". After that the road your track was following goes South while your track climbs a hill where there doesn't seem to be a road. At "Point8" you hit pavement. I've got a photo of that exact intersection in the following post, where the gravel road crosses a cattle guard and turns to pavement just as you come to the highway. Given all that, my suggestion is don't go that way. My "UT Wild-Hog 2" track (in your file) is on the GWT map, and looks fine. My "Torrey 5"" track (in my file, not in yours) is also on the map, though it's a pretty sketchy OLD road with a fair probability you'll find a fence or locked gate that you can't get through. There's a much better road that cuts over to Teasdale/Torrey parallel to that sketchy road, 4 miles to the West, though not part of the GWT map.

[HogWild]

Point8 intersection, as seen from the highway...

[HogWild]

I just drew an alternate way to get over to Teasdale and Torrey via a good dirt road. See the pink "Torrey 15" track in the attached file. Though it's not on the GWT map, it parallels my "Torrey 5" track that IS on the map but is a sketchy road. I'm not sure if you want to depart from the "official" GWT, but at least this is an option if you want to get over to the Torrey area without a really major detour. This is a file I think I've previous uploaded here, but now it has this pink "Torrey 15" alternate track added.

[HogWild]

Since I'm refering to the GWT map a lot, and I'm hand drawing tracks based on that, I thought it might be helpful to see it in GE the way I see it. This image is a GE screen capture of this area South of Torrey. It shows my tracks (yellow, green, pink, and fat white) and Jerry's track (light blue). The wide fuzzy dark lines are the GWT Utah map overlaid in GE and set for semi-transparent. As you can see, most of the tracks I drew line up really well with the underlying GWT map lines. This is how I can see when something is or is not "on the GWT map".

In this area I started by drawing the fat white track on top of the GWT dark line to the right. Then I zoomed in to see what real roads were close to that line. It turned out along most of my fat white track there were NO roads. So, I concluded this portion of GWT was for hiking only. The light blue track and pink track are sort of near dark lines from the GWT map, but clearly not the correct way.

When I first drew the yellow track, I was in a rush and didn't do a perfect job. Later I went back and added the light green tracks to more closely follow the dark GWT lines.

[Countdown]

Originally Posted by Pantah

I guess I can conclude there are no plug and play tracks ready for prime time by us coat tailers...

My plan is to rent an apartment March/April next year and explore with my little Yamaha WR2R. I was hoping to do the AZ section of this trail. Is that reasonable? How far north can I ride before hitting snow issues?

Should I just save BigDog's tracks and try to ride that as far as I can? Thanks

Panth,

First, have you read the GWT web site? If not, do so before you ask any general questions about it. Yes "we" are the only ones trying to make GWT Tracks public on the Internet. There are crude maps on the GWT seb site and at least two forests (Kanab and Dixie) that show it and there are signs on the ground.

Second, have you opened my GWT file on GPSXchange.com? If not, do so. I have my Active Log for over half of AZ, plus some from a few other inmates, plus Big Dog's. Also check out my CDR, I have all new path across New Mexico.

Third, I will be starting north from Mexico on March 26th (between goint to two western art auctions in Scottsdale). Would love company, so as to not be riding alone with nothing but sat phone.

Jerry

[Countdown]

Scott,

Does you GWT reference have any indication what part is Motorized?

I think your GWT track is very close to the one I hand drew from the Dixie forest map Attached.

However their map is not very clear what is motorized and what is not. The ledgend makes no mention of motorized and not motorized trails. I broke the trail into clear full size roads (Dark Green) and single tracks (Red) that appear to not be open to motorcycles, plus one section that not clear (Magenta).

Assuming that the single track is not open to motorcycles, I made the Options using "roads" that would put you as close as possible the "their" GWT route.

Yes between Points 3 & 4 both Dixie and Garmin Topo show single dashed line but on Dixie it says "4WD" just before Pooint 3 and just at Point 4 and I was hoping that it was a narrow 4WD "Trail".

What about that cut-across from my Option 3 to your Torrey 1?

On Dixie good road starts at Point 6 but it is old map. Yes your track agrees with Dixie but was not on Garmin Topo.

All this is great except the one mile between Points 3 & 4! There is also a clear road to the lake just west of Point 4

[Countdown]

New file with options

[HogWild]

Originally Posted by Countdown

Does you GWT reference have any indication what part is Motorized?

"My" map is their map, which is this map, nothing more, nothing less:

Originally Posted by Countdown

I think your GWT track is very close to the one I hand drew from the Dixie forest map Attached.

However their map is not very clear what is motorized and what is not. The ledgend makes no mention of motorized and not motorized trails. I broke the trail into clear full size roads (Dark Green) and single tracks (Red) that appear to not be open to motorcycles, plus one section that not clear (Magenta).

That map above does not distinguish motorized or not motorized, so I draw tracks there I can see a road. When the road looks more like a trail, I mention it's sketchy or it looks like a trail. I'll look at the tracks you just posted tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Countdown

Yes between Points 3 & 4 both Dixie and Garmin Topo show single dashed line but on Dixie it says "4WD" just before Pooint 3 and just at Point 4 and I was hoping that it was a narrow 4WD "Trail".

There could be a trail or very faint road there, but it looks pretty steep and rugged. It's covered in trees, so it's hard to see the ground in GE. I can't say for sure there isn't a moto way down, but if there is it's going to be pretty aggressive. Try it and report back! But even if it goes through, it's not an official part of GWT as far as I can tell.

Originally Posted by Countdown

What about that cut-across from my Option 3 to your Torrey 1?

I'll look tomorrow.