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Old 03-05-2010, 08:39 PM   #76
Cigar Mike OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpillar
Are you thinking of making one for the KLX250 at all?
If there is interest, why not?

Added to the list, which is growing everyday.

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Old 03-05-2010, 08:58 PM   #77
Cigar Mike OP
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by donny662
I'll link to this thread from ThumperTalk. There might be a few others from the DRZ forum interested and, hopefully, that will include someone from Colorado.
I think I would need to get to it before the snow melts. I am sure you know what happens when the dirt is showing through again. No one is likely to part with their bike. I think they ride everyday here when it is possible.

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Old 03-12-2010, 07:56 PM   #78
moventurer
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Good work...

I got spoiled by centerstands in the past, and would love to add one to a bike of mine.

However, If the stand weighs approx 10lbs, then the swinging portion probably weighs in the neighborhood of 8lbs+. If the spring only applies 18-22.5lbs of holding force, I'm concerned the stand will come down when jumping.

I don't mean this as any sort of criticism, but rather as input in order to be sure the product works as planned. Having the centerstand deploy while in the air doesn't sound like a problem until it happens to you. If the stand becomes fully deployed, as it did a few years ago, when I jumped an old road bike, it can cause serious damage to the engine cases and frame.

In my case, it snapped the centerstand brackets off on one side taking a big chunk of frame with it, seriously damaging the frame. On the other side, the weld of the centerstand bracket broke stabbing the bottom of the engine, and cracking the cases.

Now I don't expect you to design these for hitting the motocross track, anyone doing big jumps can remove the stand before hand... But if it can't handle a drop from at least three or four feet, without deploying, I probably would never be able to leave it on the motorcycle, since I'm always looking for some airtime.

Can someone test and video these prototypes to see how large a drop they can handle?
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:34 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moventurer
I got spoiled by centerstands in the past, and would love to add one to a bike of mine.

However, If the stand weighs approx 10lbs, then the swinging portion probably weighs in the neighborhood of 8lbs+. If the spring only applies 18-22.5lbs of holding force, I'm concerned the stand will come down when jumping.

I don't mean this as any sort of criticism, but rather as input in order to be sure the product works as planned. Having the centerstand deploy while in the air doesn't sound like a problem until it happens to you. If the stand becomes fully deployed, as it did a few years ago, when I jumped an old road bike, it can cause serious damage to the engine cases and frame.

In my case, it snapped the centerstand brackets off on one side taking a big chunk of frame with it, seriously damaging the frame. On the other side, the weld of the centerstand bracket broke stabbing the bottom of the engine, and cracking the cases.

Now I don't expect you to design these for hitting the motocross track, anyone doing big jumps can remove the stand before hand... But if it can't handle a drop from at least three or four feet, without deploying, I probably would never be able to leave it on the motorcycle, since I'm always looking for some airtime.

Can someone test and video these prototypes to see how large a drop they can handle?
Since I do not get a lot of air anymore I would not be the one to answer this question. Some of the customers may be able to answer. There are several out there. I would think that if it is really a concern to you and you would still like to have a center stand. I would suggest that a mechanical type retainer be installed so that there is no way for the stand to deploy while getting big air. Geek mentioned that very problem when jumping the 950 with the factory stand. It should not be hard to design something that would be effective.

I was concerned with the stand bouncing while riding through whoops but must admit that I did not give a lot of thought to large jumps. The legs of the stand probably weigh about 6-7 lbs. The weight the spring holds up is half that or less. Half the weight is supported by the pivot bolts. The spring needs to be this heavy due to the mechanical advantage afforded by the angle of the spring in relation to the stand. It would use a much lighter spring if the spring was at a 90 angle to the point of connection on the leg. As the stand rotates downward the spring force is multiplied due to its increasing length. Whether a jump would develop enough force to deploy it all the way is unknown.

The center stand just may not fit your type of riding. Maybe the packable stand sold here in the vendors section would better suit your needs. Center stands are not for everyone. I would never suggest that they are. They are available for those that want them.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Cigar Mike
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:54 PM   #80
r00t4rd3d
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After I installed my stand I stood on the pegs and started bouncing up and down as hard as I could.

Sure enough my stand was making noise. My stock stand.

The center stand was quiet as can be.

Then one fine day I was out messing around in the garage with socks on my feet , my foot slipped of the center stands foot peg , nailed me in the shin , I dropped my bike and cursed Mike out loud for using such a heavy duty spring.



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Old 03-12-2010, 11:18 PM   #81
Cigar Mike OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r00t4rd3d
After I installed my stand I stood on the pegs and started bouncing up and down as hard as I could.

Sure enough my stand was making noise. My stock stand.

The center stand was quiet as can be.

Then one fine day I was out messing around in the garage with socks on my feet , my foot slipped of the center stands foot peg , nailed me in the shin , I dropped my bike and cursed Mike out loud for using such a heavy duty spring.



Now that's funny. Ouch! I will have to put a warning label on the stand warning about shoeless deployment of the stand. Not

But I do understand. I went out and kicked my YZ465 over in my sandals one day. Needless to say it kicked back. Ripped the sandal right off and part of my foot.

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Old 03-14-2010, 01:28 AM   #82
moventurer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar Mike
Since I do not get a lot of air anymore I would not be the one to answer this question. Some of the customers may be able to answer. There are several out there. I would think that if it is really a concern to you and you would still like to have a center stand. I would suggest that a mechanical type retainer be installed so that there is no way for the stand to deploy while getting big air. Geek mentioned that very problem when jumping the 950 with the factory stand. It should not be hard to design something that would be effective.

I was concerned with the stand bouncing while riding through whoops but must admit that I did not give a lot of thought to large jumps. The legs of the stand probably weigh about 6-7 lbs. The weight the spring holds up is half that or less. Half the weight is supported by the pivot bolts. The spring needs to be this heavy due to the mechanical advantage afforded by the angle of the spring in relation to the stand. It would use a much lighter spring if the spring was at a 90 angle to the point of connection on the leg. As the stand rotates downward the spring force is multiplied due to its increasing length. Whether a jump would develop enough force to deploy it all the way is unknown.

The center stand just may not fit your type of riding. Maybe the packable stand sold here in the vendors section would better suit your needs. Center stands are not for everyone. I would never suggest that they are. They are available for those that want them.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Cigar Mike
Thanks for the response. No sale.

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Old 03-14-2010, 03:54 PM   #83
Cigar Mike OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moventurer
Thanks for the response. No sale.
You’re welcome.

Adventure riders are a unique group of riders. They are involved in all types of riding from hard core single track to adventure rides that are mainly pavement. They very often use a bike for a purpose that was not intended by the manufacturer. If the bike does not fit, they make it fit. This is how the center stand for our DS bikes came about. I wanted a center stand on our bikes so that I could change to a different set of wheels (street tires) easily and fix flats when out on the bikes. When we are hundred miles from nowhere the center stand is welcome for getting the flat fixed and moving again.

When I posted about the stands that I had made for our bikes I was asked if I would make them available. Since I was retiring it seemed like a good idea so that I could keep busy doing something I enjoy. Other models were made available upon request. I don’t market the stands trying to convince someone that they need what I make. I could care less if I ever sell another center stand, other then I will have to find something else to do to keep me busy. So if someone says to me “no sale”. Who asked you to buy anything? I build what I am asked to build. I don’t ask anyone to buy what I build. If you want one, fine. If not, fine. I let it be known that they are available and for how much and I stand behind what I make.

Overall it has been a good experience making and selling the stands. The people that I am in contact with have been great. There have been some problems but it always seems to work out with the help of the riders. I would have probably quit a long time ago if this was not the case. But the riders that I have come in contact with have made it a worthwhile endeavor.

I have no idea how long I will continue to do this. If it becomes a job instead of a hobby, I will stop. If the time it takes interferes with the time I need to spend with my family, I will stop. And obviously if there is no longer any demand, I will stop. If there is too much demand, I will stop. This is a hobby that had to be a business for legal and tax concerns. I do not make a living from this and don’t need the money to survive.

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Old 03-14-2010, 09:45 PM   #84
WeeBee
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Well said, Mike

I'm patiently waiting and hoping you'll be able to engineer up a C.Stand for US model 1989/1990 Honda Transalps.
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:47 PM   #85
Ruffus
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I'm just sitting in the back row watching carefully
One thought I had about someone using your stand & wanting to do big air.
Just use a Zip Tie, if you need the center stand, a quick snip & you're back in business
For most off road riding, a side stand is preferable, for dualsport, a center stand can make life so much easier

P.S. Mike, didja notice what kinda bike I ride??? hint hint
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:49 PM   #86
Cigar Mike OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffus
I'm just sitting in the back row watching carefully
One thought I had about someone using your stand & wanting to do big air.
Just use a Zip Tie, if you need the center stand, a quick snip & you're back in business
For most off road riding, a side stand is preferable, for dualsport, a center stand can make life so much easier

P.S. Mike, didja notice what kinda bike I ride??? hint hint
I was thinking something like the hook and loop strap (not Velcro) I include with with the stand that is used to set the front brake.( It is not needed for normal use of the stand but helps when doing heavy wrenching on the bike. Like if your back up wrench slipped while trying to torque the rear axle.) It has a amazingly strong grip and I think it would hold up the stand very well. The same strap could do double duty.

I always figured that the people that would want a center stand on there bike would want it for longer rides or dual sport/adventure type rides. On a single track machine I drop the bike enough that laying it on its side is not a big thing to fix a flat. In the old days I would not even remove the wheel. I would break the beads and then pull the bead on one side. Then remove the tube and find the leak and patch. I never carried a spare tube in those days. But I had two rim locks on the rear and a six ply tire. I could ride it flat back to the truck if need be. Later on I found out that I could prop another bike into the frame of my bike rocking it up on the side stand and pull the wheel if need be. And since I have never ridden alone, that is always an option. I was a lot younger then and could fix a flat in about 15 minutes. Today if I can do it under an hour with the center stand, I am happy.

Most models go on and off easy enough that it would not be much trouble to take it off when the ride dictated it.

Yes, I noticed. Throw it on it's side. No one has ever mentioned wanting one for that model before. But all things are possible for those that believe.

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Old 03-15-2010, 04:32 PM   #87
Ruffus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar Mike

Yes, I noticed. Throw it on it's side. No one has ever mentioned wanting one for that model before. But all things are possible for those that believe.

Cigar Mike
I didn't think many with my type of bike would request it & I'd only have it bolted up on multi day trips like the TAT, that with any luck I'll be doing in July. For everyday riding I'd keep it at home.
Just daydreaming I guess
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:03 PM   #88
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At the risk of generating TOO much demand and causing you to stop...
my wife has a TTR230 Yam and I have a CRF230 Honda...
Anything in the pipeline for these humble bikes?
And then we have ADV bikes - she has a Guzzi 650 TT and I have an Aprilia Caponord - but I won't even ask...
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:04 PM   #89
Cigar Mike OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruffus
I didn't think many with my type of bike would request it & I'd only have it bolted up on multi day trips like the TAT, that with any luck I'll be doing in July. For everyday riding I'd keep it at home.
Just daydreaming I guess
I would think that the enduro/ DS stand listed here in vendors might be a good option for the TAT. It looks like it could come in handy and if you are only going to use it once in a while it would be a lot easier on the pocket book. The only thing that I would suggest if you were to use it, is to put a spacer between the ground and the sidestand when using it. I have propped my bike up on the side stand to pull wheels and it will bend the side stand. Then the bike will lean to much when on the side stand. A small piece of 2x4 would probably help, maybe two.

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Old 03-15-2010, 05:14 PM   #90
Cigar Mike OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Precis
At the risk of generating TOO much demand and causing you to stop...
my wife has a TTR230 Yam and I have a CRF230 Honda...
Anything in the pipeline for these humble bikes?
And then we have ADV bikes - she has a Guzzi 650 TT and I have an Aprilia Caponord - but I won't even ask...
Best from Down Under
Steve
Melbourne
What year TTR230? You may have the year that has the same frame as the XT225. If so the XT225 stand should work. I have yet to look at the CRF230 but it is on the list of requests.

The weather is warming up and interest will probably increase. I wonder if I will make someone mad because I have gone riding.

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