The Long Range Precision Shooting Thread

[HardCase]

Originally Posted by P B G

I use that same rear sight on my air rifle, and have not been able to discern a whole heck of a lot of difference between the small apature, the large apature, and using the rear ring and no apature in function.

Behing that I don't do lots of bench work with anything, just having an open ring functions well enough to blast what I'm looking at.

My now deceased dad was a big believer in peep or receiver sights. For hunting purposes he'd unscrew the aperture and just use the rear ring without it, sort of a "ghost ring" almost, and we could never tell much difference in the size of the groups, plus it was lots faster in hunting situations.

[pilot]

Originally Posted by HardCase

My now deceased dad was a big believer in peep or receiver sights. For hunting purposes he'd unscrew the aperture and just use the rear ring without it, sort of a "ghost ring" almost, and we could never tell much difference in the size of the groups, plus it was lots faster in hunting situations.

Also better in low light to use a big aperture. Hard to see much through a tiny one at dusk.

[doc_ricketts]

Took my other (first) Savage (12 BVSS .308) out to the range today after I got in some more Hornady 168 BTHP bullets in. The thing has been a slight mystery, but after putting a harmonic killer and getting the action screw torques right, I thought I had it consistently good. However, my final test today shows that the thing will shoot best when you clean every 3 round group and do not let the barrel get too hot. If I could place my hand on the barrel and it felt nice and warm, it gave .25 minute groups at 100 yds. If I let it get too hot to hold my hand on, then the groups would start opening up. But I was satisfied today and will continue to shoot it that way with the original Savage fluted barrel. I was shooting next to a Hewlett Packard exec with a $4000 Desert Tactical SRS in .308 (with a $3400 Schmidt and Bender scope) so the lil Savage was really trying hard. By the way, the HP exec was letting his associates shoot the expensive sniper rifle and their groups were about 2-3 minutes at 100 yds. Just goes to show ya.....

[buildit]

Ever shoot 1/4 inch steel plate with Russian 7.62X54? Is this what happened to you also?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQxL7VFXQ9I


Not to worry, all damage is easily repaired. :)

[Andyinhilo]

Originally Posted by doc_ricketts

Took my other (first) Savage (12 BVSS .308) out to the range today after I got in some more Hornady 168 BTHP bullets in. The thing has been a slight mystery, but after putting a harmonic killer and getting the action screw torques right, I thought I had it consistently good. However, my final test today shows that the thing will shoot best when you clean every 3 round group and do not let the barrel get too hot. If I could place my hand on the barrel and it felt nice and warm, it gave .25 minute groups at 100 yds. If I let it get too hot to hold my hand on, then the groups would start opening up. But I was satisfied today and will continue to shoot it that way with the original Savage fluted barrel. I was shooting next to a Hewlett Packard exec with a $4000 Desert Tactical SRS in .308 (with a $3400 Schmidt and Bender scope) so the lil Savage was really trying hard. By the way, the HP exec was letting his associates shoot the expensive sniper rifle and their groups were about 2-3 minutes at 100 yds. Just goes to show ya.....

What powder are you using? I have a 112BT that won't really perform until I feed it loads using IMR 4064, with others I have tried, accuracy has been fair to poor, but any load I've tried using 4064 shoots 1/2 or less.

[doc_ricketts]

Originally Posted by Andyinhilo

What powder are you using? I have a 112BT that won't really perform until I feed it loads using IMR 4064, with others I have tried, accuracy has been fair to poor, but any load I've tried using 4064 shoots 1/2 or less.

I have been using 40 gr H4895 for most of the time. This is a light load but seems to be as accurate as any. I just the other day tried 43 gr H4895 to be sure I was homed in. I also tried some Varget at 40 and 43 gr this week and it shoots about the same as H4895, but the 4895 granules are slightly smaller, so I like it better. H4895 is supposed to be one of the most temperature insensitive powders, so that is a plus. I have also tried RL-15 and it shoots about the same, but 4895 seems the best. I personally think that barrel/action temperature effects (along with barrel 'cleanliness') and vibration have more to do with consistency than the actual powders (for a good set of powders). Also, OAL has a lot to do with accuracy, especially with Savages.

[Fire Escape]

Originally Posted by geode

An interesting read.

Seems as though I just read that recently but I don't recall where. Best guess would be that it was in one of the Precision Shooting back issues that I pull out when I run out of current reading material but...

Weather permitting, I need to pull my 700VS out of storage and run some rounds through it this week. Next Sunday is the club's annual Lemon Shoot. Haven't tried it for a number of years now and never have hit the Lemon at 500 yds, just need to try it again.


Bruce

[Hay Ewe]

Originally Posted by geode

An interesting read.

thank you. It answered a question that I had never thought to ask - why certain bullets are called 'ball', and general history too

I was impressed by the accuracy from so long ago and the range too

Hay Ewe

[doc_ricketts]

Two firsts today for me by total accident. Went to the range to put in some cleanup work with the crew and met one of the guys who shoots Palma guns on the 600 yd range. He let me shoot his Tubb 2000 in 6XC and certified me on the range, as required by club bylaws. I then shot my Savage 10 .308 on the range without changing the scope zero at 200 by holding on minute of tree branch above the target. Got a few in the 6 ring, so not bad for my first time. But I won't be doing this extra long distance stuff too much because it is mucho trouble. Here is a Tubb 2000:

[doc_ricketts]

Buehler, Buehler, .......??

[doc_ricketts]

Well, lets gets something going. Here is a picture of my complete benchrest accuracy reloading setup good for .25-.5 minute accuracy at 100 or 200 yds out of my Savage .308s:

[P B G]

Originally Posted by HardCase

My now deceased dad was a big believer in peep or receiver sights. For hunting purposes he'd unscrew the aperture and just use the rear ring without it, sort of a "ghost ring" almost, and we could never tell much difference in the size of the groups, plus it was lots faster in hunting situations.

He was a wise man.

I recently started teaching my girlfriend to shoot using the aformentioned gun.

Here is the first round fired.



And every other round fired is the same. A center hit.

Pointless teaching other systems before a good ghost ring. Wastes your time and their energy.

[HardCase]

Originally Posted by P B G

He was a wise man.

I recently started teaching my girlfriend to shoot using the aformentioned gun.

Here is the first round fired.



And every other round fired is the same. A center hit.

Pointless teaching other systems before a good ghost ring. Wastes your time and their energy.

I agree. Maybe that's why the military has used that style of sight.....maybe not a true ghost ring, but a receiver/peep sight so same basic principle, for the past century or longer. Just look 'through' the aperture and forget about it, focus on the front sight, line it up with the target, and bang. Works damned well.....assuming decent eyesight.

OTOH, my girlfriend doesn't like a peep. For some odd reason, she likes a standard buckhorn iron sight on a rifle. She'd done some shooting and hunting before I knew her, so has acquired some habits and preferences. I tried through several range sessions last year to convince her, and to demonstrate, the error of her ways, but I'm sure you can imagine how that might have gone.....

[HardCase]

While I realize that this thread is about precision shooting, and what I am about to discuss is not exactly consistent with that topic, I do feel it is interesting to discuss sights and their applications.

In any discussion of iron sights the choice is basically between some sort of peep or aperture sight, and an 'open' or buckhorn style sight. I think that most of us will agree that better precision can be had with a peep sight of some sort. However, for dangerous game at close range I believe that the preferred sight is not a scope, and not a peep, not even a ghost ring, but a large front bead, gold or, nowadays, perhaps a fiber optic, and a shallow V rear sight. That is the type that has been used for dangerous African game for more than a century and is probably the best choice. On this continent, I think for a shotgun or rifle being carried as protection against Old Ephraim, a shallow V and a bright visible bead is the optimal combo for close-range snap-shooting.

Maybe this belongs in the best bear gun thread.....

[doc_ricketts]

Originally Posted by HardCase

While I realize that this thread is about precision shooting, and what I am about to discuss is not exactly consistent with that topic, I do feel it is interesting to discuss sights and their applications.

In any discussion of iron sights the choice is basically between some sort of peep or aperture sight, and an 'open' or buckhorn style sight. I think that most of us will agree that better precision can be had with a peep sight of some sort. However, for dangerous game at close range I believe that the preferred sight is not a scope, and not a peep, not even a ghost ring, but a large front bead, gold or, nowadays, perhaps a fiber optic, and a shallow V rear sight. That is the type that has been used for dangerous African game for more than a century and is probably the best choice. On this continent, I think for a shotgun or rifle being carried as protection against Old Ephraim, a shallow V and a bright visible bead is the optimal combo for close-range snap-shooting.

Maybe this belongs in the best bear gun thread.....

For long distance precision shooting, an adjustable peep is the only thing that should be considered. A buckhorn or such is good for hunting, but not for long distance target poking. I shot a Palma gun (as shown above) at 600 yds which had the pricey Palma peep sights on it and got on target, but to do better I would have to have a scope. Of course my eyes are not so hot for open sights.