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Old 12-13-2013, 06:46 PM   #1156
Foot dragger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewgore View Post
I'm in a conundrum. I'm looking at picking up a new 2014 xcw and am torn.

300xcw
Or
450xcw

My biggest issues with the 300 is the fact its not fuel injected and the slightly more hassle on dual sport rides.

My biggest concern on the 450 is the maintenance. Not the immediate upkeep, but with the price of these machines, I see it being around for the foreseeable future.

The bike will be used for both race (harescramble/enduro) and trail riding.

Thoughts? This wouldn't be my first 450 (coming from a wr450f) and a fee years ago I had an older KTM 300.

Appreciate the input.

Andrew
Does FI really add that much enjoyment to a ride?

There are no FI 2 strokes other then the Ossa for sale.

Id love to get my 2014 300xcw plated,its a bit of a trick here in CA,for me I didnt even consider a 4 stroke for a trailbike,Ive tried em in various sizes and the overheating on tight trails,stalling once their hot,FI fuel pumps and filters acting up,and then the high cost of maintenance if you keep it a long time.

Eh,I like 2 strokes better anyway.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:19 PM   #1157
Fred Garvin
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300 vs. 450

In addition to what Mr. Foot Drager said, they are lighter in the tight stuff, easy to extract a little (or a lot) more power from, eaiser and cost less to do a top end and there is a lot of aftermarket support available. I can not compare it to a 450 because I never owned one, but I find the 300 to be the perfect woods weapon.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:42 AM   #1158
RideFreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewgore View Post
I'm in a conundrum. I'm looking at picking up a new 2014 xcw and am torn.

300xcw
Or
450xcw

My biggest issues with the 300 is the fact its not fuel injected and the slightly more hassle on dual sport rides.
> the 300 is not a DS bike, yes it can be tagged in CO and is ok for riding 10mi or so out to a trail but you'll want something different if you're really talking DS, with the big tank you'll get a little over 100mi.

My biggest concern on the 450 is the maintenance. Not the immediate upkeep, but with the price of these machines, I see it being around for the foreseeable future.
> the newer 450s (KTM) don't require the valve jobs near as often (like an RFS) so maint isn't like it used to be on that machine, properly maintained the 300 can get away with only rings at 180hrs, when raced you'll probably need a piston & rings a little sooner than that. It's going to be airfilter cleans/oil changes/chassis servicing for the most part on both bikes. You probably have to open up the 2T earlier than the 4T but it's so easy I don't consider that an issue. Valve adjustments aren't an issue with the new motors ether, they stay in adjustment really well.

> As for the FI issue, a 2t is more sensitive to altitude changes, for instance, you could jet a 450 (non fi) for 7K' and get away with riding 12K' on CO and 4K' in Moab, the 300 would require a jetting change to do that. With FI you're going to make better HP up high (12K') just because jetting will be really close. I def felt the loss of power in the 300 riding in Taylor Park but it was be no means slow and on some of the trails up there I was really glad I was on a 300 instead of a heavy 4t.

The bike will be used for both race (harescramble/enduro) and trail riding.

> It's pretty tough to beat the 300 for those kinda rides, the light weight means you physically last longer under tough conditions and if you're not a big guy like me, chances are you'll be faster on the 300 because of the weight difference.

Thoughts? This wouldn't be my first 450 (coming from a wr450f) and a fee years ago I had an older KTM 300.

> It's a different style of riding than the WR but the newer 300 are much more refined than the older version you owned. They got a rep for being a cheater bike b/c they handle the knarly riding so well.

Appreciate the input.

Andrew
That's a pretty wide range of uses you're looking for. Personally I'd recommend the 300 if you ride allot of knarl, but if your DS rides include much pavement. then a 500XCW or EXE is a better option.

RideFreak screwed with this post 12-14-2013 at 05:54 AM
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:29 AM   #1159
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I agree with what RF is saying.

But, I think he is looking at a XC (not easy to plate) so not really DS riding like most of us think of DS.
I'm still comparing, but the 450 is going to be more brutal, harder to throw around, when either riding or stopped, and a much more planted and plush ride in the open than a 300.
The tighter the riding, go with the 2T........I think.

In fact I'm going out in a few hours to get some time on the 350. RF??
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:45 AM   #1160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
That's a pretty wide range of uses you're looking for. Personally I'd recommend the 300 if you ride allot of knarl, but if your DS rides include much pavement. then a 500XCW or EXE is a better option.
I should explain a bit more. Our DS rides have minimal pavement. If we do a loop its 90% 2track and single track. We avoid roads like the plague. Our DS rides are more so like race practice. We'd rather spend the day riding 30 miles of gnarly stuff than crank out miles on gravel roads.

I've had a plated 2 stroke before (husky wr250). I had no issues using that as a dual sport even with the narrow 5 speed trans. I just couldn't get on with it while racing. Where I'm at, I can plate a 300, so I'm keeping that in mind.

To me the fuel injection is huge. The response and immediate feel is just awesome. I'm not expecting FI in a 2 stroke, but it stays as a perk to me on the 4 stroke.

As far as racing goes, I've no issue racing either bike. I do like the way 4 strokes hook up, but have done equally well on 2 strokes.

I've ridden a 2012 500, and while its nice, I didn't like the power on it. Just a shade too grunty. I've also ridden a 350xcw and felt good on it, but felt I needed more power.

I haven't ridden any of the new KTM 2 strokes, but did ride a new GasGas 300. I felt great on that, though the rear felt more planted in turns and on the throttle on my 450. This could be attributed to a variety of things.

Simple solution is one of each. Unfortunately the wallet doesn't approve

Andrew

PS. My local dealer will let me test ride anything, but the snow is kind of making that a non possibility at the moment.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:04 AM   #1161
RideFreak
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
In fact I'm going out in a few hours to get some time on the 350. RF??
I'd like to go but I'm recovering from a slight consequence from a recent Truth or Consequences ride

Dez conditions should be nice. How are you liking the new 350?

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Old 12-14-2013, 07:21 AM   #1162
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Sorry, I was thinking you're in CO, Didn't realize it was IL. Plating the XC is a little more trouble and expense (around $600 compared to $200 for the XCW) but doable, not sure of IL's tagging rules though. The 500s stock gearing are really tall giving it a sort of mild feeling, regeared they are a completely different animal and pretty fast. The XCs have a lighter flywheel weight & closer ratio trannys, both are not an issue if you're a pretty aggressive rider. I'd say get some seat time on both when the weather clears a little.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:55 AM   #1163
ChasM
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KTMTalk 10% Discount at Munn Racing

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I am a member there. How do I go about getting discount??

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk 2
You can order online at KTMTalk. If you order via phone, make sure to ask for the KTMTalk discount.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:32 AM   #1164
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Originally Posted by ChasM View Post
You can order online at KTMTalk. If you order via phone, make sure to ask for the KTMTalk discount.
OK, thanks Chas
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:29 AM   #1165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewgore View Post
I'm in a conundrum. I'm looking at picking up a new 2014 xcw and am torn.

300xcw
Or
450xcw

My biggest issues with the 300 is the fact its not fuel injected and the slightly more hassle on dual sport rides.

My biggest concern on the 450 is the maintenance. Not the immediate upkeep, but with the price of these machines, I see it being around for the foreseeable future.

The bike will be used for both race (harescramble/enduro) and trail riding.

Thoughts? This wouldn't be my first 450 (coming from a wr450f) and a few years ago I had an older KTM 300.

Appreciate the input.

Andrew
Even though both bikes can do it that's still a pretty wide range to cover. So we need more information:

On the dual sport side:
1. How much range do you need?, i.e. are you refueling half way through your rides? Refueling a 2 stroke isn't hard on the trail, but a 4 stroke really is easy.
2. Do you ever ride at a steady speed for miles on end? EFI 4 strokes can do that ~ no problem, 2 strokes really need to be jetted correctly for this.
3. Are your dual sport rides mostly single track, or are you needing a plated dirt & street machine?

On the racing side:
1. Are you racing for fun or racing to win a championship?
2. How tight are your races? Will riding a bike that's 30 pounds lighter really make a difference?
3. Are your races mostly low speed 2nd & 3rd gear stuff or high speed 4th & 5th gear?

Personally, I think that you just need to decide which you want to enjoy the most (racing or trail riding) and then answer the questions above. In my case because I already own a 300XC-w my second bike choice would be to try a 250XCF-w.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:11 PM   #1166
RideFreak
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Originally Posted by 1stgear View Post
I've got 190 hrs on my '12 300, still the original top end. Thinking about putting a new piston in it, but first I'll get another 10 hours out of it (today). The 500 is nice, but the 300 is awesome. If you've never had a 300, get one. If you don't, you'll never know what you've been missing. They're too much fun. I race and dual sport mine. With the two bikes sitting side by side, I'd always choose the 300 to ride. Still not sure why I got the 500.
I wish I could afford a 500, I'd have both, I have an RFS for DS which I like but the new 500s are pretty sweet.
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Old 12-14-2013, 03:02 PM   #1167
andrewgore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zig06 View Post
Even though both bikes can do it that's still a pretty wide range to cover. So we need more information:

On the dual sport side:
1. How much range do you need?, i.e. are you refueling half way through your rides? Refueling a 2 stroke isn't hard on the trail, but a 4 stroke really is easy.
2. Do you ever ride at a steady speed for miles on end? EFI 4 strokes can do that ~ no problem, 2 strokes really need to be jetted correctly for this.
3. Are your dual sport rides mostly single track, or are you needing a plated dirt & street machine?

On the racing side:
1. Are you racing for fun or racing to win a championship?
2. How tight are your races? Will riding a bike that's 30 pounds lighter really make a difference?
3. Are your races mostly low speed 2nd & 3rd gear stuff or high speed 4th & 5th gear?

Personally, I think that you just need to decide which you want to enjoy the most (racing or trail riding) and then answer the questions above. In my case because I already own a 300XC-w my second bike choice would be to try a 250XCF-w.
DS
1. Range 50-75 miles tops. I have ready to go plastic containers filled with premix good for 1 gallon of gas each. They worked well while DS'in on the Husky WR250. I'd done several 100-150 mile days on the Husky with no issue (aside from it being a Husky )
2. No, not really. I get antsy on even the shortest connector sections, so it may or may not involve slowing down, wheelieng through the gears, rinse and repeat.
3. The DS rides are 2track\singletrack. Yeah, I've done similar\worse on bigger bikes. It's not as fun. I shouldn't really use "dual sport" as the term for the rides we do. We do our best to stay on singletrack, but it's always nice to hit some good flowing 2-track.

Race
1. I race for fun, but I do race to win. There are too many races in my district that are too far of a drive, so we don't bother with them. The races we go to, I plan to win or at least be competitive in.
2. I'd say our HS races would probably be considered tight. Most locations don't have a lot of land to use, so they do what they can to make the most of it. Regarding weight....it's honestly not an issue. I've come to the conclusion that in a race, the bike doesn't really matter. I've taken 2nd in a harescramble on a 1985 XR350R, won my first race on my WR450 and won my last race on a 97 RMX250. I was less worn out on the RMX250 than the WR, but that RMX suspension is so plush that you don't feel anything.
3. Most races are 2nd\3rd. If there is an open section, it's not very long.

It's tough as I've ridden\raced such a variety of bikes over the years. It's good in the fact that I know what I like in bikes, but bad in the fact that 90% of the time, I don't care what I'm on when I'm riding\racing. I just love riding bikes*

My gut is saying to go with the 450. I love how they produce power. The long term cost has me thinking 300. I'll be testing them both out as soon as I can. We just got more snow, so it'll be a little while.

Andrew

* I won't race a 125 2T again, or a 250 4T. They just don't have the giddyup.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:05 PM   #1168
Gordy
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Originally Posted by RideFreak View Post
I'd like to go but I'm recovering from a slight consequence from a recent Truth or Consequences ride

Dez conditions should be nice. How are you liking the new 350?
Dez was about as nice as it gets today. I rode the 350 and honestly think it is going to be a better desert weapon than the 300.
It carves in the arroyos better and has an incredibly long power delivery.
It feels and rides really light but I still think that my 300 will be better in the gnar. Can't say for sure just yet but I certainly would rather drop it in a rock pile than the new 350 right now.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:09 PM   #1169
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Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
Dez was about as nice as it gets today. I rode the 350 and honestly think it is going to be a better desert weapon than the 300.
It carves in the arroyos better and has an incredibly long power delivery.
It feels and rides really light but I still think that my 300 will be better in the gnar. Can't say for sure just yet but I certainly would rather drop it in a rock pile than the new 350 right now.
My 2014 300XCW is the best running 2 stroke Ive tried,so far. It is so smooth down low when short shifting it and zipping through trees and up steep granite,feels easy and torquey yet still will pull the front end off the ground with a little roll of the wrist.
The scream like a banshee if that seems called for.

Ive had 3 other 300's over the years and none ran like this.
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:41 PM   #1170
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Been enjoying my 300 for 250 hours now - one piston and a set of rings. Lots of tires and a chain/spricket set - that has been it. Been a wonderful bike and the best money spent was a revalve on the suspension from KTM World. I got the itch for a new bike but like this one too much to get rid of it. So the answer is a new 200XCW.

It will be interesting to see which gets more miles on it
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