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Old 03-04-2010, 02:11 AM   #196
JMo (& piglet)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk2surf
no body has been bringing up the 450x ... it is a highly popular bike in us desert racing now.. In fact thats probably the next bike for me. JCR racing uses them instead of the R even on small races.. must say something..
I agree (that would be my 'other' choice) - however, US desert races don't tend to last two weeks, over 9000 kms? For shorter Rallies I'm sure the Honda is a contender, but for the Dakar, I fear unless you really keep on top of it, it might get worn out pretty quickly (the ikkle biddy oil capacity and titanium valves...) over such a long and continuous event?

That said, two guys finished Heroes-Legend last year on rally-prepped 450X's (which was a similar distance - 8000kms) - on the same engine and with just regular maintenance as far as I know...

It would be interesting to see some statistics of how many CRF450s started the Dakar this year, and how many finished? As Aussie66 says, as long as you don't tune them to highly, I expect the 450X would be a good (and affordable) choice too?

J x
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:20 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by fetid_swamp
Why would they put a new 450 lc4 sort of donk in a big chassis designed for up to 730, esp when their compeditors will be running smaller and lighter chassised machines (eg, sherco, ape, Yamaha).
Couldn’t they just adapt the 450/530 chaassis they already have?

Could this be the holy grail about to arrive. A not as highly strung (designed reliable), med-hi po 450 class bike, 6 speed in a highly competent chassis and susp setup suitable for riding, riding and riding. As opposed to riding, maint, riding.

Sort of like a modern drz but with power, handling, suspension and light weight, 90% setup from the factory… (now I mention it its not much like a drz at all. Ha)

Waiting with baited breath.
Hee hee - the "450 Adventure" the Americans (particularly) have been crying out for here on ADVrider... be a nice thought huh?

As I said above, it is interesting and indeed telling that KTM don't seem to be building something around their existing EXC bikes/engine? And strange - since a lot of privateers finnish the Dakar perfectly well on modified (Meca'system etc) EXCs...?

But then of course the factory boys couldn't be seen to be riding something so 'everyman' now could they? Especially if it means their performance would be closer to what everyone else is riding...

Lets' hope the can sell a few RC8s and X-bows to help finance this new project eh?

J xx
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:25 AM   #198
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I wonder when they are going to scrap that open wheel money pit...
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:21 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)
Hee hee - the "450 Adventure" the Americans (particularly) have been crying out for here on ADVrider... be a nice thought huh?

As I said above, it is interesting and indeed telling that KTM don't seem to be building something around their existing EXC bikes/engine? And strange - since a lot of privateers finnish the Dakar perfectly well on modified (Meca'system etc) EXCs...?

But then of course the factory boys couldn't be seen to be riding something so 'everyman' now could they? Especially if it means their performance would be closer to what everyone else is riding...

Lets' hope the can sell a few RC8s and X-bows to help finance this new project eh?

J xx
I think KTM is going for a new range over the 450 EXC for sales purposes nothing else. Im speculating it wont be too different from the EXC´s just with a different name and look so they can bank on a major sales boost.

To change the subject: I´m curious why you have said nothing about the WR 450 for the Dakar? Dont you like the Yamaha or its it the attraction of the kTM/BMW that is motivating you?
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:09 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Bluebull2007
To change the subject: I´m curious why you have said nothing about the WR 450 for the Dakar? Dont you like the Yamaha or its it the attraction of the kTM/BMW that is motivating you?
Ah, that's cos I'm playing my cards close to my chest... x

Actually, I thought I had mentioned the WR (I know others have) - and my quip a few posts back about the viable options 'only' being KTM or Yamaha I thought would have given the game away... lets just say, I won't be buying Orange anytime soon x

But yes, the WR450 is currently my number one choice - not only is is reliable and affordable (in that order I might add - it doesn't matter how cheap it is if it isn't going to get me to the finish!), but it's popularity and longevity means there are plenty of parts/spares available, and of course a number of rally kits have already been developed. I'm thinking of going for this kit (by JVO):



... initially the 'lite' version with just the front tanks and fairing, and perhaps a 5 litre left hand rear tank if I need the range during the NPO series... then fitting the rear seat/tank kit for Dakar...

That said, I love my Hondas I really do, and if the CRF450X was EFi this year, I really think I'd have chanced my luck with that... Likewise, I'm really tempted by this new Suzuki RMX450Z (which is EFi) and by all accounts ought to be very reliable too...

Neither of those bikes would need any real suspension or engine modifications to make them competitive at the back of the field where I'll be riding, and they are still individual enough to really appeal to my bloody-mindedness! However, there just isn't the range of rally kit available for them, and I don't want to be running a prototype (again) this season...

Whereas the WR is such a proven machine - great power, great suspension, strong chassis etc etc etc, even though there is no EFi, I think that is the most sensible choice for this year?

It took me a long time to come round to what people like Patsy Quick and Si Pavey have been saying all along - if you are going to enter the Dakar, you better make damn sure you give yourself the best chance of finishing, because a finish is all you're going to get... if you're lucky!

J xx
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Old 03-04-2010, 02:12 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)

It took me a long time to come round to what people like Patsy Quick and Si Pavey have been saying all along - if you are going to enter the Dakar, you better make damn sure you give yourself the best chance of finishing, because a finish is all you're going to get... if you're lucky!

J xx

Amen to that!
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:06 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)
(particularly)

As I said above, it is interesting and indeed telling that KTM don't seem to be building something around their existing EXC bikes/engine? And strange - since a lot of privateers finnish the Dakar perfectly well on modified (Meca'system etc) EXCs...?

But then of course the factory boys couldn't be seen to be riding something so 'everyman' now could they? Especially if it means their performance would be closer to what everyone else is riding...


J xx
there is huge difference in speed between the front runners of the Dakar (Coma and Despres)and the guys who ride to finnish. Coma and Despres would stress a bike way more than "average joe" so KTM will build something capable of carrying the top guys to the finnish at the front.
And of course an EXC isn't the way to go ,it is an enduro bike .
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:20 PM   #203
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But wouldn't it be nice if ktm built a 450 with longer service intervals and the same performance? This could work out for us "mortals" as well as the "back of the pack" rallye competitors.

Although this is a race thread its an adventure forum.

As more and more locations in the world get explored, the true adventures become more and more "offroad" orientated. A 450 with performance and longer maintenance intervals would be a "big hit" eventually among many members of this asylum, IMHO.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:27 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Deadly99
But wouldn't it be nice if ktm built a 450 with longer service intervals and the same performance?
Hee hee - don't you think if they could, they would?! Surely one or other will have to be compromised? - the question is, by how much I guess?

J xx
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:29 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallye
there is huge difference in speed between the front runners of the Dakar (Coma and Despres)and the guys who ride to finnish. Coma and Despres would stress a bike way more than "average joe" so KTM will build something capable of carrying the top guys to the finnish at the front.
.
yeah as an example of that is both those guys get new clutches every 2 days cause they work them so hard, where as others such as Rallye & David Schwarz (still top 20-40 capable) on stock 690RR's can get 15,000km out of the clutch in rallye races
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:33 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by rallye
And of course an EXC isn't the way to go ,it is an enduro bike .
Oh I agree - the EXC isn't perhaps the best basis from which to build a dedicated rally bike... simply that Yamaha, Sherco, Aprilia, Gas Gas et al* are all building their rally bikes around an existing (enduro) platform?

If KTM can pull it off (there is no question of can of course, rather will it be affordable to mere mortals!), then it does open up a huge potential for the adventure/trail rider if a customer version is ever offered...

Then I'm sure we'll also see a 450cc version of Yamaha's WR250R... here's hoping!

J xx

*Ooops, forgot BMW, Husky, Husaburg too!
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:39 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)
Ah, that's cos I'm playing my cards close to my chest... x

Actually, I thought I had mentioned the WR (I know others have) - and my quip a few posts back about the viable options 'only' being KTM or Yamaha I thought would have given the game away... lets just say, I won't be buying Orange anytime soon x

But yes, the WR450 is currently my number one choice - not only is is reliable and affordable (in that order I might add - it doesn't matter how cheap it is if it isn't going to get me to the finish!), but it's popularity and longevity means there are plenty of parts/spares available, and of course a number of rally kits have already been developed. I'm thinking of going for this kit (by JVO):



... initially the 'lite' version with just the front tanks and fairing, and perhaps a 5 litre left hand rear tank if I need the range during the NPO series... then fitting the rear seat/tank kit for Dakar...

Whereas the WR is such a proven machine - great power, great suspension, strong chassis etc etc etc, even though there is no EFi, I think that is the most sensible choice for this year?

It took me a long time to come round to what people like Patsy Quick and Si Pavey have been saying all along - if you are going to enter the Dakar, you better make damn sure you give yourself the best chance of finishing, because a finish is all you're going to get... if you're lucky!

J xx
I must have had a brain explosion when I read your last few posts, sorry!

As a n00b to racing I need all the advice I can get. Anyway I have bought a 2009 WR 450 and Im getting the JVO lite kit for it as well. Charlie is putting it together for me, and I´ll be testing it out in April in Nevada. As for the Dakar, I wouldnt presume Im good enough to enter that event at this stage! I have great respect for people who do!
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:49 PM   #208
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You'll have a ball out in Nevada Bluebull - I consider that my home from home these days (having spent the last two winters in the US desert south west)...

Wish I was back there right now to be honest!

J xx
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:27 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)
Oh I agree - the EXC isn't perhaps the best basis from which to build a dedicated rally bike... simply that Yamaha, Sherco, Aprilia, Gas Gas et al* are all building their rally bikes around an existing (enduro) platform?

If KTM can pull it off (there is no question of can of course, rather will it be affordable to mere mortals!), then it does open up a huge potential for the adventure/trail rider if a customer version is ever offered...

Then I'm sure we'll also see a 450cc version of Yamaha's WR250R... here's hoping!

J xx

*Ooops, forgot BMW, Husky, Husaburg too!

Sign me UP! My wife just got a new WR250R, and I am very impressed. A 450 version would have me drooling.
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:59 AM   #210
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Kits galore available for the Honda. Low cost to high cost carbon fibre.
A friend of mine has a 450x here in Dubai which he used for the Transoriental and the previous dakar in South America (not this year).

Honda Europe has a very good succes rate (Challenge 75 kit) I believe. The bike only had oil changes in South America, no top end rebuild or anything else. I think it was a top 40 finish. I will get some photos soon.

PS 690 for sales for 20.000 USD 1 year old.
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