ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Racing
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-22-2013, 07:28 AM   #2101
Jurassic
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jurassic's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Scotland
Oddometer: 1,036
Thanks for the update on your thoughts and insight Doyle. So the wait continues it seems (and it looks like Jenny will have to find another buyer for the WR!)
Jurassic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 07:51 AM   #2102
doyle
RallyRaidReview-ing
 
doyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Off Piste
Oddometer: 22,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic View Post
Thanks for the update on your thoughts and insight Doyle. So the wait continues it seems (and it looks like Jenny will have to find another buyer for the WR!)
Take my commentary with a grain of salt. I hear some stuff that remains confidential but I am by no means an insider.
__________________
Got Smugmug? Use code HWkDUhHwGv5Tc for a discount.

RallyRaidReview - @RallyRaidReview
doyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 07:59 AM   #2103
Jurassic
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jurassic's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Scotland
Oddometer: 1,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyle View Post
Take my commentary with a grain of salt. I hear some stuff that remains confidential but I am by no means an insider.
That's very modest but I think for many on here you are THE go to source for the latest news and gossip about all things rally. Keep up the good work!
Jurassic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 08:57 AM   #2104
too old
Keen supporter
 
too old's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Sandy waste
Oddometer: 2,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyle View Post

The reason for the slip to 95% is that HRC may be a little wary that if Cyril doesn't dominate, then they only reason (as perceived from the outside) has to be a problem with the bike.

Now on one hand, this sounds ludicrous as why wouldn't HRC want to employ the services of the best rider
.
Cyril is a great rider, but the best?

Don't forget it wasn't that long ago when he won his 5th Dakar that it was resultant from some dubious tactics and the key fact that Faria had to let him win, otherwise Monsieur Despres would have been on the second step at best.

Not only this he has also had the best team over the years and as much as you look at things and as supported by Coma, also in many other sports, it is the total package that wins races - team, bike and rider.

On the other issue, HRC have just appointed a new GM, could they really cope with another Ze Boss?
Not only that, they must be reasonably comfortable with their current 2 European riders; they need a couple from South America where there biggest market is, so just where would that position CDP - a third pairing for HRC with a partner? - you certainly don't win the Dakar by having the largest number of riders in the team
too old is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 09:23 AM   #2105
doyle
RallyRaidReview-ing
 
doyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Off Piste
Oddometer: 22,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by too old View Post
Cyril is a great rider, but the best?

Don't forget it wasn't that long ago when he won his 5th Dakar that it was resultant from some dubious tactics and the key fact that Faria had to let him win, otherwise Monsieur Despres would have been on the second step at best.

Not only this he has also had the best team over the years and as much as you look at things and as supported by Coma, also in many other sports, it is the total package that wins races - team, bike and rider.

On the other issue, HRC have just appointed a new GM, could they really cope with another Ze Boss?
Not only that, they must be reasonably comfortable with their current 2 European riders; they need a couple from South America where there biggest market is, so just where would that position CDP - a third pairing for HRC with a partner? - you certainly don't win the Dakar by having the largest number of riders in the team
I'm comfortable with my "best" sentiment, but I think you hit the nail on the head. It's team, bike, and rider as a package that win races which is why I don't see Cyril stepping back to a Yamaha effort short of them going to a full factory, run from the top initiative.

Of the current crop of riders, circumstances aside, there is no denying Despres' record but more importantly, his consistency. Let's face it, the good results of Pain and Casteu were more of a surprise rather than the result of superior development and support. The Yamaha can be fast on a stage to stage basis, but for one reason or another, something happens which drops Casteu way down or bumps Pain just out of the running. I feel the same about Helder. He's always right there, but for whatever reason, there seems to be something missing from his overall package that leaves him just shy of contention. I don't know if it's luck, lack of training, whatever, but in each rally, there is either a crucial mechanical error or navigational error that Despres doesn't seem to run into.

Even Coma is not immune. If a top team wants results, consistency, and a smart tactician, they can't do much better than Despres. I think a 5 rider team is certainly doable for HRC. Three top riders in Sam, Helder, and Cyril with 2 water carriers that hang back in preparation to help any of the top three. Different than the dedicated rider/water carrier pairing strategy at KTM, but in those three, you get speed and consistency to rival any riders among any other team.

Lastly, I don't think we can overlook Despres' following in South America. Sure he's European, but he's one of the few to remain dedicated to the South American races, Dos Sertoes, the Dakar Series, etc. Didn't he even learn Spanish to be better able to communicate in SA. He's a smart racer and is keen to accommodate those who butter his bread. If I were a team manager, (and I like to think I am pretty fair and impartial) I know that Cyril would be right near the top of my list if I were shopping for a top line rider.
__________________
Got Smugmug? Use code HWkDUhHwGv5Tc for a discount.

RallyRaidReview - @RallyRaidReview
doyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 09:35 AM   #2106
Jurassic
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jurassic's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Scotland
Oddometer: 1,036
I would have thought that Cyril is the one rider that any team looking for success would be mad not to sign should the opportunity arise. I know there are the arguments that he has been lucky to win Dakar on occasions but you make your own luck to a great extent and his consistency and speed (when required) are there for all to see. When you talk about winning packages he is the winning rider package with the right back up. There may be more likable riders out there but I don't think there are currently any more capable (I suspect Coma is roughly as capable).
Jurassic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 09:54 AM   #2107
doyle
RallyRaidReview-ing
 
doyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Off Piste
Oddometer: 22,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic View Post
I would have thought that Cyril is the one rider that any team looking for success would be mad not to sign should the opportunity arise. I know there are the arguments that he has been lucky to win Dakar on occasions but you make your own luck to a great extent and his consistency and speed (when required) are there for all to see. When you talk about winning packages he is the winning rider package with the right back up. There may be more likable riders out there but I don't think there are currently any more capable (I suspect Coma is roughly as capable).
I agree. Among the hardcore enthusiasts, he doesn't have the greatest reputation, but I am not convinced it is completely earned. By most accounts, he's a really nice guy to deal with but like any top line racer, I suspect, he's crazy competitive. Not many multi-time champions in any discipline have been touted as the best to deal with. You are right though, I think any team would be crazy not to want Despres.
__________________
Got Smugmug? Use code HWkDUhHwGv5Tc for a discount.

RallyRaidReview - @RallyRaidReview
doyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 10:07 AM   #2108
too old
Keen supporter
 
too old's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Sandy waste
Oddometer: 2,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyle View Post
I agree. Among the hardcore enthusiasts, he doesn't have the greatest reputation, but I am not convinced it is completely earned. By most accounts, he's a really nice guy to deal with but like any top line racer, I suspect, he's crazy competitive. Not many multi-time champions in any discipline have been touted as the best to deal with. You are right though, I think any team would be crazy not to want Despres.
Time will tell and probably not too much more now before all the speculating is over

I suppose just about all the bases have been covered, with the only certainty is that it's not KTM

too old screwed with this post 04-22-2013 at 10:12 AM
too old is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 10:35 AM   #2109
Dread Pendragon
Xin Ku
 
Dread Pendragon's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Logan, Utah
Oddometer: 2,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyle View Post
The reason for the slip to 95% is that HRC may be a little wary that if Cyril doesn't dominate, then they only reason (as perceived from the outside) has to be a problem with the bike.
That's understandable, and if it's true the rally team is on a short leash they may be limited in their ability to commit to Despres.

But then, it's Honda, not Jin Cheng. If they can't make the new bike stand out soon it will hurt their image regardless.
__________________
- Mike -
WABDR
Mesquite Area Ride
Death Valley Ride
Dread Pendragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 11:10 AM   #2110
Jurassic
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jurassic's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Scotland
Oddometer: 1,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyle View Post

The reason for the slip to 95% is that HRC may be a little wary that if Cyril doesn't dominate, then they only reason (as perceived from the outside) has to be a problem with the bike.
In a way the actions of Honda over the last six months support this. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch of the imagination to wonder if they've been employing Sam, JC, Helder etc to beta test for them (albeit with a view to continuing to employ them on a future more successful evolution of the rally bike). Could it be that the mysterious new bike and Cyril's signature on the dotted line will be announced simultaneously later this summer? History shows that CDP is a winner, once the new bike is a proven winner it'd be "safe" to put Cyril on it.
Jurassic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 11:41 AM   #2111
Dread Pendragon
Xin Ku
 
Dread Pendragon's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Logan, Utah
Oddometer: 2,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic View Post
In a way the actions of Honda over the last six months support this. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch of the imagination to wonder if they've been employing Sam, JC, Helder etc to beta test for them (albeit with a view to continuing to employ them on a future more successful evolution of the rally bike). Could it be that the mysterious new bike and Cyril's signature on the dotted line will be announced simultaneously later this summer? History shows that CDP is a winner, once the new bike is a proven winner it'd be "safe" to put Cyril on it.
And if, at some point, Cyril is riding for Honda, which other rider will be his water carrier? (I suppose all of the other Honda riders would be water carriers for Despres at some level.)
__________________
- Mike -
WABDR
Mesquite Area Ride
Death Valley Ride
Dread Pendragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 11:54 AM   #2112
too old
Keen supporter
 
too old's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Sandy waste
Oddometer: 2,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dread Pendragon View Post
And if, at some point, Cyril is riding for Honda, which other rider will be his water carrier? (I suppose all of the other Honda riders would be water carriers for Despres at some level.)
I recall that KTM have changed the water carrier strategy and made it obsolete, probably to do with the reliability of the bikes? - but things can still fail and tyres can shread etc. so it will be intereting to see how this is managed in the event.

Not sure if HRC are following suit, but you are probably right about Cyril, whoever he is riding for?
too old is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 12:54 PM   #2113
doyle
RallyRaidReview-ing
 
doyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Off Piste
Oddometer: 22,563
It would be a shame if Cyril were left without a decent ride having left KTM, presumably, for HRC. He's polarizing among some fans, but he brings a level of professionalism and talent to the race that I think rally would suffer, if only a little bit from his absence. But then again, I am more fan than hater.
__________________
Got Smugmug? Use code HWkDUhHwGv5Tc for a discount.

RallyRaidReview - @RallyRaidReview
doyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 02:02 PM   #2114
Jurassic
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jurassic's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Scotland
Oddometer: 1,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyle View Post
It would be a shame if Cyril were left without a decent ride having left KTM, presumably, for HRC. He's polarizing among some fans, but he brings a level of professionalism and talent to the race that I think rally would suffer, if only a little bit from his absence. But then again, I am more fan than hater.
I was a neutral until "mudgate" (which I found difficult to accept as sporting behaviour) but Despres redeemed himself in my eyes this year. He definitely adds to the spectacle of rallying and I'd be really disappointed if he didn't secure a competitive ride. I want to see a clash of the titans encounter between Coma on the new KTM and Cyril on an improved Honda for Dakar 2014.
Jurassic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 04:09 PM   #2115
tHEtREV
Captain Awesome
 
tHEtREV's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Middle Park, Brisbane, Australia
Oddometer: 7,016
I was thinking about Cyril's situation yesterday and was wondering about the possibility of him starting his own team using a KTM?
__________________
tEAM iDIOT.

KDX Super Fan!

My Spot HERE (active and on a trip).
tHEtREV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014