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Old 11-28-2013, 02:56 AM   #3391
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Originally Posted by yety61 View Post
Annie Seel makes a comeback with aussie Gary Connell in a Polaris.

Awesome

Welcome back and good luck.
Gary who?
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:58 AM   #3392
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Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post
I don't know about you guys but I'm not going to crucify someone just cause I read some stuff on the internet.
Sorry Trev, this is the wrong forum if your going to try and pull that 'reasonable' crap
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Old 11-28-2013, 03:19 AM   #3393
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The high road... to where?

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Originally Posted by doyle View Post
Jordi may have burned his bridge with GasGas but anyone in the industry would recognize that he is a top talent and that he could not pass up the chance to rejoin KTM. Clearly GasGas is not happy but kudos to them for taking the high road, it's not always the easy one.

Viladoms is a talent for sure and the fraternity is small. He may have singed GasGas a bit but he'll survive especially if he capitalizes on a potentially career saving opportunity.
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Originally Posted by Deadly99 View Post
Did GasGas take the high road? Were they given the opportunity to say no...we're they paid by KTM? high road....or had no choice but to smile between clinched teeth...

Losing Jordi and Ms S to the competition and non-union left with who...man they must be passed right off as they have a significant amount of money invested and now have little hope of even being competitive...
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I think they did. They could have worded that presser much differently but I suppose in the end, they realize the realities of the industry and understand that these things happen.
I'm along the same wavelength as Ted on this one I think...

Yeah, GasGas press release (after the fact) was fairly gracious... but that they took the "high road"? I'm more of the opinion that they were the handcuffed accomplices in a last minute PR "ambush".

I mean, here is the chronology of the whole deal.

B1K... KC66 is the subject of a fatal tragedy. Heartbreaking, emotional. A lot of people in the industry in grief... all very understandable.

KTM announce only a few days later that David Casteu is to join team for Dakar 2014. In a little bit of PR opportunism, the blurb is spun that DC joins KTM and the place/memory of KC66 is honored (not sure if it was KTM or ASO that was the architect of this spin... but a nice gesture in KC66 memory).

Anyone that was watching the moto press/EICMA expo realise that DC's KTM/Dakar deal was already in place when KC took the start line at the B1K... So the question mark raised... who/when/if will the vacant saddle be filled. In meantime KTM HQ backroom squad are out on the grapevine looking.

viola... a deal is struck with JV. (understandable from the sporting opportunity aspect why he would answer the call... but is is suicide from the commercial/professional point of view?).

So once the deal is struck (I still no idea of whether there was some kind of payment/transfer fee to GasGas from KTM or if JV was merely released/walked from the contract over to Mattighoffen) out comes the press statements from the parties involved;

KTM "yeah, after the terrible tragedy, it is wonderful that JV can join our team in his memory.... etc. etc."

JV "It's an honour to be able to join KTM after this regretable situation... thanks to gasGas for everything... you guys are great... you really are... but... you know?"

GasGas: "ummm... what just happened? huh? Ah, oh... yeah... um, well of course we are all gravely sadened by the events of these last weeks, we look to Dakar confident in our preparation and wish Jordi well..."

"High Road"...??? I mean what else could they have said after the fact... without coming off like douchebags - in light of all the emotion around the KC tragedy? Sure they were gracious.

I'm pretty sure though, that if I was behind the big desk at GG, I would be expecting a reasonable transfer fee or similar before JV was realeased from his contract. I sure hope that they recieved some form of payment. In these "formula 450" times where everyone is gushing forth with pleasantries like; "it's so good to see so many manufacturers back in the sport", "it is more competitive than ever", "great to see the challenge being taken to KTM for a change" etc. But for a little manufacturer like GasGas, fielding a three man effort at dakar is no mean feat, the development of the bikes is impressive (they look awesome) and unless anyone has not noticed... spain's economy isn't exactly luminous at present (I think another poster alluded to the fact further up the page?).

So that GasGas are "smiling through clenched teeth" - as deadly99 so eloquently put it. Yeah not a bad effort after being kicked in them...

No ill will to JV or KTM (as said, they are just doing what is best from a sporting/competivemness aspect) but hope karma rides with the spanish underdogs GasGas on this Dakar.
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Old 11-28-2013, 03:33 AM   #3394
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
This may be true.
For anybody this would be a big opportunity. There is a reason they are elite riders and this is one of them. Always try to have the best equipment out there.
I don't think loyal means something to pro riders, and I don't think it should. Time flies and spend your time with the wrong teams, and you are screwed big time.
KTM wants to win. If (a big IF, but still...) JV is in front of Coma, and HRC is leading the pack, I am sure KTM will unleash JV without making a ''Faria'' . The point for KTM is to win. As KTM. I don't think they do mind who gets the trophy as long he rides a factory KTM. JV has very good navigational skills, he is fast, I think he will do good.

It is far more complex than ''stick to you word'' . For example, if I was in that position, and refuse to take the seat in the KTM, KTM would never try to take me to their team. Never again. Especially if they loose the Dakar crown. Now, the choice for me would be, ''who would I prefer to be ''enemies'' with? KTM or GasGas? '' I think the answer is obvious. KTM has the logistics, the package, a new, very competitive bike. The company will be around for the many years to come. GG may be in a couple of years decide to withdraw Dakar with financial things not going so well... Who knows...

But it is difficult to see it from their (from the elite rider's I mean) point of view... Tough, but it happens all the time.

D.
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There is bound to be a lot of factors that helped his decision along that we know nothing about.

I don't know about you guys but I'm not going to crucify someone just cause I read some stuff on the internet.
Oh, come off it tREV... get off the fence of objectivity and crawl around in the accusational mud with the rest of us...

About JV's sporting ambition/motivations for the jump...

Yeah, sure on paper the KTM deal is a big carrot... but it's for one ride... the 2014 Dakar...? Right? (maybe not... but extremely unlikely that in less than a week KTM brass decide on trapping up their 2014 season to include a previously - uncontracted rider from the competition).

Meanwhile, back at GasGas, Jordi had the dakar and a 2014 program laid out (ok... the GasGas company on the corporate ropes could factor in JV's thinking perhaps?), but in either case he went from a program he was a part of, to throw his hat in the ring for (what at this stage is most likely) a one race gig?

Smart move for a shot at Dakar... career wise? hmmmm? dunno?

In NFL terms, didn't he just go from being a starting quarterback in a franchise, to a hired reciever brought in from the bench for one hail mary pass in the Superbowl?

If he makes the touchdown - he's set. If the pass is "incomplete", it's back to the CFL at best.

As the say in Hollywood;

The fingers you burn on the way up (back?) can be those connected to the hands that pull the red carpet out from under your feet at the premier?
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"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."
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Old 11-28-2013, 03:42 AM   #3395
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It may be possible that Gas Gas are in serious trouble and couldn't afford to give JV what he was contracted to get, and GG were happy to see him go...

Yeah I know I'm grasping at straws, and I hope GG are not going under because I just bought one, but I'm just saying there are scenarios that could make the move make sense...

I'm just struggling to see the logic in his move if it is all as transparent as it seems.
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Old 11-28-2013, 04:11 AM   #3396
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Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post
It may be possible that Gas Gas are in serious trouble and couldn't afford to give JV what he was contracted to get, and GG were happy to see him go...

Yeah I know I'm grasping at straws, and I hope GG are not going under because I just bought one, but I'm just saying there are scenarios that could make the move make sense...

I'm just struggling to see the logic in his move if it is all as transparent as it seems.
How much $$ do you really think riders like Viladoms actually get paid ,aside from the bikes and entry/travel etc.??
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Old 11-28-2013, 04:13 AM   #3397
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Hey I did say I was grasping at straws.
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Old 11-28-2013, 04:39 AM   #3398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
For anybody this would be a big opportunity.
D.
This is what it boils down to, plain and simple.

BTW Dimitri: Do you have a Mark1 Road book working on a competitor's bike in the Dakar 2014?
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Old 11-28-2013, 04:43 AM   #3399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post

*snip*
KTM wants to win. If (a big IF, but still...) JV is in front of Coma, and HRC is leading the pack, I am sure KTM will unleash JV without making a ''Faria'' .
D.
On this one bit, I would mention the old, and always true saying: those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Or: why would you expect a leopard to changes his spots?

They have never done differently in my memory...
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Old 11-28-2013, 04:45 AM   #3400
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Originally Posted by too old View Post

Hmmmm - some info in the bivy thread that could be the answer also? A shortage of rations, a la Bordoni?
The Bordone-Ferrari deal from the previous 18 months was also something I had in my mind when I was scribbling on about this GasGas defection (co-incidentally wasn't JV a player in the Bordone collapse in lead up to dakar 2013 as well? ).

In either case... I was pretty sceptical from the very outset that the B-F project could ever realize the PR blurb that they saturated the thing in from the beginning.

In stark contrast GasGas HAVE got on with the job over the last two/three years of putting together a gradually improving program - where now thay have their own - legitimate - bike, with a program and rider team built around it.

Now this set back.

gasGas are now my sentimental underdog for a good result in 2014... hope they find a competent substitute at short notice that can do them justice.
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Old 11-28-2013, 05:25 AM   #3401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebull2007 View Post
BTW Dimitri: Do you have a Mark1 Road book working on a competitor's bike in the Dakar 2014?
I am waiting for test results from two elite riders to see if they will race it, being so close to Dak, only factory riders can afford to change towers. At least one ATV rider will race it (last years forth place ) so whatever happens with the elite ones, valuable data will be gathered. Next week I will have a better idea because it's a very long shot after next week. Even for factories to manage, but because it is the rider's call, they may be able to switch equipment (compared to privateers were that is not possible).


EDIT: I am with Troy on the GasGas being a beautiful bike. imo it looks way sexier than most Rally bikes on the field. This wall-e look is amazing

D.
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640 Armageddon screwed with this post 11-28-2013 at 06:04 AM
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:08 AM   #3402
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
I am waiting for test results from two elite riders to see if they will race it, being so close to Dak, only factory riders can afford to change towers. At least one ATV rider will race it (last years forth place ) so whatever happens with the elite ones, valuable data will be gathered. Next week I will have a better idea because it's a very long shot after next week. Even for factories to manage, but because it is the rider's call, they may be able to switch equipment (compared to privateers were that is not possible).


EDIT: I am with Troy on the GasGas being a beautiful bike. imo it looks way sexier than most Rally bikes on the field. This wall-e look is amazing

D.
I'm sorry
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:21 AM   #3403
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Oh, come off it tREV... get off the fence of objectivity and crawl around in the accusational mud with the rest of us...

About JV's sporting ambition/motivations for the jump...

Yeah, sure on paper the KTM deal is a big carrot... but it's for one ride... the 2014 Dakar...? Right? (maybe not... but extremely unlikely that in less than a week KTM brass decide on trapping up their 2014 season to include a previously - uncontracted rider from the competition).
That is a good point. I think though that KTM plans ahead more than 2014. They know that Honda will be there and that the japs will do anything to reminds us of the NXR era, untli they leave with so many trophies that they don't have enough space for them

It will be a hard pill to swallow if the ride is just for a year, may be they have some small font paragraphs in there, but, still. We are thinking as everyday people with everyday bikes that may or may not take part in rally races in the amateur class. There people breath sand. They are in need of the nest equipment.
Imagine that pros will change equipment because of the sponsors. For example if you were running Mich's for free and then comes Metzeler with a block of money at hand, you would swap hands down. No? And this is just for running equipment.

And take into account the details. If JV had a contract that he could not break, (let us suppose that GG did not get any money from KTM) then GG could just refuse the transfer. So simple. They could just refuse it. Thank you KTM but no thanks.Of course then JV could change his attitude in Dak race, but I really don't think he would.
So, for JV, to being able to swap teams, sth does not quite add up. May be GG has financial problems, may be JV has not being paid, may be , may be etc... We just do not know the facts from GG's press releases and nobody seems to be able to track something. Either way, this probably has started a long time ago in JV's mind. May be when Laia left the team, dunno. But you don't just wake up one day, you get the offer and say ''what the hell? see you guys...'' . You get the offer and you leave because the team you are in does not offer you what the others do. And in this level the riders just walk away. It has happened in the F1 in Lotus with the financial problems they had for example... And I am sure with more teams to come, things will get ugly...

EDIT:
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Originally Posted by JayBo1 View Post
I'm sorry
No worries, J.
We have secured one '15 entry
.... Well... May be two

D.
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640 Armageddon screwed with this post 11-28-2013 at 06:33 AM Reason: To add a comment
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:39 AM   #3404
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I just wanted to address one issue here

there is a lot of chatter about this deal but none of us really know the terms of the contract JV had with Gas Gas. There are usually "get out of dodge" terms in the contracts for both the manufacturer and the rider. I do not want to speculate what was the deal but there was certainly more to it then we can see.

As far as the issue of loyalty... there is none... The factories are as loyal to the riders as the riders are to them. Contract is all that is there really. A manufacturer will break a contract with the rider as long as all the legalities are in place and sometimes even if they are not. Yes sure there are long term relationships that are fostered but all that goes up in flames if the economy gets shaky, marketing dollars are cut or the rally loving CEO leaves the helm. Why are we up in arms if a rider does so as well? The timing certainly is sensitive here but so is the opportunity. If there was something malicious ... well the courts would be involved for sure.

Gas Gas may not be happy but something tells me that JV had a pretty good "get-out-of-doge" clause in his contract with them otherwise that pressie may have sounded something like this " we were done wrong, JV is in breach of contract and we are taking him and Matighoffen to the hammer.."

my two cents FWIW
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:54 AM   #3405
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This is the best pregame show ever.

Although I did just have a panic attack
French race
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KTM and Honda and everyone else is
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