The Bivouac

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by Stagehand

Was it just me, or out of the six BMW's that started and two that finished, only one had engine troubles? the other three DNF's were rider's down?
Thats not a horrible sign of ultimate fragility (depsite the thrashing that Verhoeven was handing out to it.)

Nonetheless its hard to see it as a long term rally bike. Certainly has power and light weight going for it, but it might have lightened itself out of a job. Not to mention the possibility of BMW's sacking it anyway. I wont buy one, but I wish they would do well.

I mentioned in the Dakar thread recently that a guy rode a G450X based bike in Heroes-Legend last year, and he had similar engine problems too - he got through all three engines he had with him by half way through the second week (I think he said they were suffering from too little oil), and ultimately had to be transported by his support truck the final few days, before he pushed the bike over the finish line, and promptly jumped up and down on it!



I offered to sell him my Tenere, but quickly withdrew the offer when he looked like he might seriously accept!

J xx

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by troy safari carpente

Actually, what is interesting about this machine (quite apart from it says so on the information board) is that it seems be be based on the RMZ450 MX bike, rather than the RMX450Z enduro - the frame has indentations in the main spars (you can see these above the kickstart arm) like the MXer does, and the rear fender is the MX type, not the enduro bike. I imagine then that also it doesn't have an electric start, which is pretty hardcore!

J xx

[Yellow Pig]

I'm with JMo.

I think a DRZ400 is the perfect bike for a privateer on a budget. The motor is reliable enough to need minimal maintenance and run a marathon class w/ no issues. The engine should not have be considered a consumable.

If one got the S version or the SM version on top of that you would have a sturdy subframe to hold rear tanks and a stron electrical system to run lignting and gps/nav equipment.

[troy safari carpente]

Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)

Actually, what is interesting about this machine (quite apart from it says so on the information board) is that it seems be be based on the RMZ450 MX bike, rather than the RMX450Z enduro - the frame has indentations in the main spars (you can see these above the kickstart arm) like the MXer does, and the rear fender is the MX type, not the enduro bike. I imagine then that also it doesn't have an electric start, which is pretty hardcore!

J xx

That's correct Jenny, the photo of the Valenti bike I posted previously, is an early concept/version intended to show the potential a Suzuki 450 rallye bike might have. It was built by the Italian Suzuki distributor and based around the RMZ 450 (the project was undertaken before the RMX enduro version of the 450 Suzuki was released I believe).

As you can see from the other photo's, the bike in question is pretty much a "work in progress" (as evidenced by there being no roadbook/nav equipment etc. behind the cockpit fairing), so i beleive the bike was something of a "concept" version (is that what "ideata" on the placard in front of the bike means in Italian...?).

One would imagine that Valenti would be looking at fitting the split front fuel tanks, navigation tower/fairing and rear tank components from this RMZ version, onto the enduro based (el-start) sister RMX machine - now that it has been released - to create something along the lines of the 450 Suzuki based rallye bike that your originally hinted at a few pages back.

[Hayduke]

Since I was in Baja during the Dakar, I'm just catching up and watching all the Eurosport coverage. I gotta say, I was super impressed with Casteu and the Sherco's performance up until Casteu's off. Surely a testament to Casteu's skills, but also to the Sherco.

Watch out next year, IMHO.

[Stagehand]

Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)

I offered to sell him my Tenere, but quickly withdrew the offer when he looked like he might seriously accept!

J xx

I remember you mentioning. Bummer about that. They do have precious little oil.

[MEGO]

Some ideas, to have something to tell about...

This year in Dakar there was the problem with the Coma tyre. Anyone was sure about the irregular change.
Why not to check and to mark all the tyres each rider got in his assistence truck before the race? And, in the meantime, why not a limited quantity of tyres each rider, for all the race? And a limited number of rims?
Less than one tyres a day, to cacth the original spirit of "marathon raid".
Factory riders, in this case, must take attention and must ride not at max speed.
And why not less fuel liters for Elite Riders, face to the privateers?
Remember many privateers got just four tyres and four rims for all the race (2 ant and 2 post)... (2 on the bike, at the start and 2 on the Elf plane)

Remember in 24 H du Mans there are a limited number of pit stop and fuel lt.
And in all the major races there are restriction about fuel.

Less fuel on the bike could be safety and the racer must go slowly...
In this case, if the rules normaly tell 250 km + 10%, for the elite drivers could be 275 km + 10%

Dakar was not a "speed" race, but a raid in the desert with orientation problems...

[rallye]

KTM cannot afford to get out of rallying and i think the new 450 KTM rallye bike might have LC8 printed somewhere on it !!! -500cc. my thoughts..

[canadaler]

Originally Posted by MEGO

This year in Dakar there was the problem with the Coma tyre. Anyone was sure about the irregular change.
Why not to check and to mark all the tyres each rider got in his assistence truck before the race? And, in the meantime, why not a limited quantity of tyres each rider, for all the race?

I think the real issue is with the mousse...not the tires.

I think a DRZ400 is the perfect bike for a privateer on a budget. The motor is reliable enough to need minimal maintenance and run a marathon class w/ no issues. The engine should not have be considered a consumable.

If your going for reliability and economy...I'd go even more "retro" and use the XR400 as a platform. 50lb less to start with as compared to the DR-Z. Dead simple and stone reliable. Throw on an oil cooler and rallye gear...you'll die out in the desert long before it does.

[Hayduke]

Originally Posted by canadaler

If your going for reliability and economy...I'd go even more "retro" and use the XR400 as a platform. 50lb less to start with as compared to the DR-Z. Dead simple and stone reliable. Throw on an oil cooler and rallye gear...you'll die out in the desert long before it does.

+1 I sure miss my XR4. (it already has an oil cooler btw )

[Yellow Pig]

So what kind of gearing are they running to be able to do 90-100mph on a 450?

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by canadaler

If your going for reliability and economy...I'd go even more "retro" and use the XR400 as a platform. 50lb less to start with as compared to the DR-Z. Dead simple and stone reliable. Throw on an oil cooler and rallye gear...you'll die out in the desert long before it does.

I agree - I've had one since 2003!


And even took it to Morocco in 2006:


And agree it is utterly bullet-proof... however, the XR400 doesn't have an electric start (or battery electrical system) that would make life a LOT easier on a rally bike? That's not to say those can't be retro-fitted, but then that would negate a lot of the weight advantage over the DRZ?

I also wonder if, in high temperature racing conditions, the air-cooled XR might not suffer more than a liquid cooled bike? It's fine as long as you keep moving, but stuck in a sand dune, you might cook the little fella?

I've long been tempted to take my 400 back to Morocco in competition - however, running all the nav gear would be tricky without a battery...

J xx

[Jeff@TheQuadShop]

I've seen several XR400's race Dakar over the years.

[canadaler]

Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet)

... agree it is utterly bullet-proof... however, the XR400 doesn't have an electric start (or battery electrical system) that would make life a LOT easier on a rally bike? That's not to say those can't be retro-fitted, but then that would negate a lot of the weight advantage over the DRZ?

I also wonder if, in high temperature racing conditions, the air-cooled XR might not suffer more than a liquid cooled bike? It's fine as long as you keep moving, but stuck in a sand dune, you might cook the little fella?

I've long been tempted to take my 400 back to Morocco in competition - however, running all the nav gear would be tricky without a battery...

J xx

You can put a 200W stator on the XR400, plus do a battery conversion. Parts from the LTX?400 Honda quad (even the e-start) are interchangeable with the XR. Personally...I wouldn't do the e-start conversion.

As far as cooling capacity, some people used to weld additional aluminum fins on the engine...but you're right, that ain't gonna help you much when there is not air flow over them.

In terms of oil cooling...I was sort thinking of putting a larger oil cooler rad on the XR (maybe off a DR650?) and then (as long as you had the bigger output stator) hook up a fan to it as well. I think it could be quite effective when you don't have enough air flow over your engine fins.

[JMo (& piglet)]

Originally Posted by canadaler

You can put a 200W stator on the XR400, plus do a battery conversion. Parts from the LTX?400 Honda quad (even the e-start) are interchangeable with the XR. Personally...I wouldn't do the e-start conversion.

As far as cooling capacity, some people used to weld additional aluminum fins on the engine...but you're right, that ain't gonna help you much when there is not air flow over them.

In terms of oil cooling...I was sort thinking of putting a larger oil cooler rad on the XR (maybe off a DR650?) and then (as long as you had the bigger output stator) hook up a fan to it as well. I think it could be quite effective when you don't have enough air flow over your engine fins.

Of course, you can add all of this stuff - but that was the point I was making above - that once you have, you've negated a lot of the weight advantage, and arguably made the bike more complex too?

I'm not saying it can't be done, or that it wouldn't be a good machine at the end, but something like the DRZ would be less work, that's all...

Also, since the XR400 production was stopped in 2004, there are many more, and later model DRZs around to choose from?

J x