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Old 03-24-2010, 03:25 PM   #91
DiscoDino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLuke
In general, and particularly based on the 'or Metal Toggle Switch' which basically says you can use a generic component, I'd say no. It's all about the blue vs. the white wire. You could wire those up backwards and have the 'high' setting give low heat and vice versa. The switch is nothing more than a mechanism for routing power to the desired circuit.
OK...so is there a part that I can install between the switch and the socket to alter power between high and low? or should I scrap the whole top clamp and start fresh? (would hate to do that)

Thanks
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:07 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDino
OK...so is there a part that I can install between the switch and the socket to alter power between high and low? or should I scrap the whole top clamp and start fresh? (would hate to do that)

Thanks
All a heater is is a resistor. I would guess that all the high/low switch does is redirect the power to a different resistor grid in the grip heaters... one of the grids has more resistance than the other, making it hotter than the other.
Simple.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:33 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDino
OK...so is there a part that I can install between the switch and the socket to alter power between high and low? or should I scrap the whole top clamp and start fresh? (would hate to do that)

Thanks
No. The current is either on or off. There's no such thing as high 12-volt power and low 12-volt power. But there are devices that can operate on "high" or "low" based on internal circuitry of the device. For instance, there are tail light bulbs that come on with power but will burn brighter when you apply the brakes.

This is starting to get lengthy, though. Wonder if you can take this offline with JDLuke who seems to have a good handle on it. Or me, though my handle ain't as good as his.
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:54 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDino
Something like this?

(I have two independent circuits, the red dots are the LEDs, the green lines pertain to the green light the "low" setting should get from the LED, and the red lines are for the red light when in "High")
This drawing will not work right. Reason is the LED green and red terminals are shorted together on the powerlet terminal which also shorts the hi and lo sides of the switch together.

You want each side of the switch to go to an individual load. In the Symtec case it has different resistance (length) elements to produce more or less heat. Other kits use a resistor to dump load (convert to heat, but away from the hand grips) for low heat setting.

The powerlet should be connected to the fused battery supply to the switch and they will be always on. The hi and lo terminals of the switch should go to the hi and lo connections of the hand grips. The red LED wire should go to the hi side terminal and the green LED wire to the low side of the switch so these are in parallel with the grip heaters. If you want to switch each powerlet you need another switch. With 2 switches, one controls the grip heaters, the other switches one or both powerlets. You might wire one always on, the second outlet switched.

The LEDs need to be the 12V type with built in dropping resistors. Else you will have to add your own resistors of the right value to limit the current to the spec (typically 10-20ma).

Also in the Symtec example, you could add a 12V LED between the blue wire and ground, and another between the white wire and ground to show when one of them is ON. Tap off the Red/Yellow power supply to feed your powerlets. Conside the proper fuse rating for the loads you want. Remember the fuse is close to the battery to protect the wire run from too much current and burning up or melting its insulation if too much load or a short happened in the wire harness. If you had your grip heaters on, and both powerlet loads on all at once, would the wire size and fuse size hold up? If not then you need dedicated runs of fused power for each load.

A GPS draws very little power so no worries there. But an air compressor is a lot of current. Not likely you will use that when the grip heaters are on though. It comes down to what you plan to plug into the powerlets and when they will be connected and on.

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Old 03-25-2010, 04:53 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K7MDL
This drawing will not work right. Reason is the LED green and red terminals are shorted together on the powerlet terminal which also shorts the hi and lo sides of the switch together.
Good point! I didn't catch that. I think the net effect would be to light up both the green and the red LEDs whenever power is switched to either circuit.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:40 AM   #96
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Thanks for all your help guys...this thread is a wealth of knowledge and mishap (you're all welcome for the latter). I wired the thing yesterday in a simple circuit which works and will do for now until I come back from my long trip and figure another way to vary the temperature rating coming out of the sockets to my heated gear.

As mentioned, will not continue to bastardize ChadX's thread...

Cheers,
Nadim
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:52 PM   #97
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Just caught up on this thread. One last comment in that you can not control heated gear with this type of high/low switch. A variable controller, for heated clothing, does not vary voltage, amps, or watts. It simply controls how long the power pulse lasts.

When dialed to 100%, the circuit is powered 100% of the time. When dialed to 50%, the pulses are off and on an equal amount of time. etc. But each "on" pulse is drawing 100% of the amps it was designed to pull.

Think of a toaster. You turn it on and it heats up, drawing 100% power and making 100% of the heat it is capable of making. Now, turn it on for 1 second, then off for 1 second, then on for 1 second, then off. Each time it was on, it was drawing 100% power. The fact that it was pulsing off then on means, though, that the toast was getting less heat than if you had left it on the whole time.

A good explanation on the warm and safe site:
"The Heat-Troller is a pulse-width modulated controller with a 1 second cycle time. That means that over a 1 second period, the power is turned on from about 10% to 100% of the time, adjustable with the knob on the controller. When the power is on, full power is applied to the load. In the example given, if the heated grip are 16 Watts each and the Heat-Troller is adjusted to 50%, the grips will get 16 Watts for half a second, then no power for half a second, giving an average of 8 Watts of power."
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:48 PM   #98
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Still confused re: the damn switch, but for now (as we had to ship the bikes Saturday so needed to get stuff done) the switches work in a single throw, and Paul came through BIG TIME: he sent me a pair of 5mm LED plastic holders...they guy is beyond belief!

Here are some pictures:







The installation:


The way I'm routing the wires with the coiled extension for when I'm standing up on the pegs (if needed):


Thinking of getting this and re-doing a top clamp to house:
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:47 AM   #99
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Has anyone successfully mounted HBD hanguards to this Scotts setup?

XR650R forward mount, http://www.scottsperformance.com/Sta...0R&BI_ID=20628
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:01 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDino
Hmmm...I thought this H-Off-L switch would provide different amp settings. It comes from Symtec for their grip heaters and here's a diagram that Bash3r shared...

The Hi-Lo switch in this diagram works because the Symtec heated grips have two seperate circuits running to them. It is not the switch which modulates the current but the number of elements in the grip heaters themselves. High switch goes to more abundant elements, Lo switch goes to fewer heating elements.

Many less complex heated grip setups simply have a resistor wrapped around the Lo side circuit that converts part of the current to heat thus making it less powerful than the un-resisted High side circuit.

As others have said, you are missing a resistor or modulating device to convert the full High power into a low power circuit. Without this the Hi-Lo switches are just on/off switches.
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:19 AM   #101
craftycoder
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my HDB setup


Before Electrical Work


After Electrical Work


Everything powered up.


Headlight powered off.


Wiring bundle.

The red button shuts off the low beam, but in this photo, I just turned on the high beam which also shuts off the low beam. If I want no headlight, I turn on the OEM low beam switch on the left grip and push the red button.

The black button kills power to the Powerlet which is energized always otherwise. The green LED indicates the Powerlet's status only when the ignition is on though so the LED doesn't drain the battery.

The red LEDs merely indicate that the ignition is on. This is because I have a bad habit of leaving it on when I am scouting up ahead on foot. I'll transition one of those LEDs to indicate heated grip status this winter when I mount them. But it's the warm part of the year so I am riding stock grips ATM.

I got the Powerlet from powerlet.com. It came with a great little 90 degree rubber boot for the bottom to protect it from the weather.

I found the hand guards difficult to install. I still really need to bend them into shape, but I don't have a hot enough torch. I'll pick up some MAPP gas soon and fix it for good.

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Old 05-01-2010, 05:31 AM   #102
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[QUOTE=craftycoder

After Electrical Work

Nice setup, but get rid of that ugly clamp on ball mount for the GPS. This new item from RAM replaces one of the top clamp bolts & provides a clean looking option. GPScity.com is the best place to buy these, very reasonable price & they don't screw you on shipping for this tiny item. See link--
http://www.gpscity.com/ram-mount-mot...am-b-367u.html
I have replaced both top clamp bolts with these on my bike - one for the GPS & the other for a roll chart mount (or swiveling beverage holder ).
-- Dasvis
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:56 AM   #103
craftycoder
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I actually have another solution I'll try first. I will mount the ball in one of the switch holes. I just need a T nut because the bolt on the ball is just too short for my needs.
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Old 05-01-2010, 06:16 AM   #104
dasvis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftycoder
I actually have another solution I'll try first. I will mount the ball in one of the switch holes. I just need a T nut because the bolt on the ball is just too short for my needs.
Yeah, I tried that before I found the RAM-B-367U. -- I have two of these http://www.gpscity.com/ram-mount-0.3...inch-ball.html - that I originally used in the switch holes - but I felt that when using these it crowded the switch area too much & made it hard to access.
- dasvis
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Old 05-01-2010, 06:31 AM   #105
craftycoder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasvis
Yeah, I tried that before I found the RAM-B-367U. -- I have two of these http://www.gpscity.com/ram-mount-0.3...inch-ball.html - that I originally used in the switch holes - but I felt that when using these it crowded the switch area too much & made it hard to access.
- dasvis
I have the same feeling. I am hoping I can find a nice long T-Nut which will lift the ball high enough to get it out of the way. Something like these.

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