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Old 01-28-2013, 09:42 AM   #15661
T-cosmic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platty View Post
Graham ... you must have a slighter lighter wrist than me

I use RON 98 and usually get a tad under 19 kms / litre for general slab running (I prefer kms / litre rather than litres / 100 km ).

In essence the fuel gauge is broken down into 1/6 capacity graduations (of course the first is 2 x 1/6 = 1/3 ... Hmmm, yes I was good at maths ).

I generally count of getting approximately 70 kms for each mark ie (very roughly) 420 kms per tank ...

Hope this helps with the mental monitoring ...
That is not that different from Graham's consumption. It's 5,3lit/100km. I can do that only on normal state road and keeping it below 100km/h with very gentle acceleration.


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Old 01-28-2013, 11:10 AM   #15662
Rick West
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Originally Posted by sidetrack one View Post
Two batteries was the answer for me, I wrote it up over in the Aussie Ten 12 thread

I doubt too many owners are going to install a second battery to over come this defect. Yamaha is likely looking into all the no start problems the S10 is having and will fix it. These kinds of problems will show up.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:13 AM   #15663
Old Git Ray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve G. View Post
I'm lucky enough to be renting a newer Super Tenere for a month of touring in Europe this summer. Some of the countries I'm going through have spotty fuel availability. I'm wondering what the average real mileage guys are getting out of their bikes? In my case, there will be no offroad riding, mostly backroads, perhaps a mountain pass or 20 [Transfagaien in Romania ].

Cheers
Where are you going in Europe that you will have trouble finding fuel ?

We have recently visited every country in Europe bar Serbia, Belarus and Russia (if you include those as part of Europe) and have not experienced any fuel problems. This is not Africa

We also went over the Transfagarasen pass. http://raykarenhall.blogspot.co.uk/2...cus-folly.html
There are no problems in Europe at all and I was able to use my Visa card in every country (ATM) with the exception of Moldova but this may have been a bank connection problem. Nor were there any hotels that I could find (in Moldova) but as I was short of cash we soon got out of there.

In Romania you can visit Draculas Castle and his birth place. See my blog: http://raykarenhall.blogspot.co.uk/2...none_1170.html and http://raykarenhall.blogspot.co.uk/2...x-none_29.html

If you want some good places to visit PM me, or better still, read the blog from March to may 2011 and September to December 2011

A tip: Take Euros, they are taken in most places (that do not have Euro as a currency) and when you do get funny currency, find a petrol station before leaving the country and use it up as the new country is unlikely to take the previous one's.
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Old Git Ray screwed with this post 01-28-2013 at 11:24 AM
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:24 AM   #15664
dave6
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My experience with the hard start has always been because of slightly low battery (playing with it in the shop, wiring accessories etc.). I also have the powered tank bag ring which draws all the time and if left without running or charging for some time it will drain the battery enough that it turns over good but will not start. Put the charger on it for a few mins. and it fires right up. Some people turn off their bikes with the kill switch and then walk away with the lights on etc. This may be enough to reduce what the battery has to start the bike. This bike seams to need a full charge to start the bike. I have 30,000 kms on the bike now and have never been stranded because of hard starting or any other reason. I used to own a 1968 HD so I understand what hard starting is all about. A second battery would not be for me.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:24 AM   #15665
dcstrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WARRIORPRINCEJJ View Post
I know there's an entire thread dedicated to these tires. However, I wanted to hear from only ST owners...


Is anyone running the 705s?

How do you like 'em?

For those who have had more than one set, what kinda' mileage did you get out of 'em?


.
Loved them on my Strom... tried them on the S10 and tore them up. But would be fine if you are gentle with them and dont expect too many miles out of them.

http://supertenere1200.com/2011/10/1...ko-experience/
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:30 AM   #15666
dcstrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~TABASCO~ View Post
I will add to this just a little... I had a slightly weak battery in my FJR several weeks ago.. It would turn over just fine but would not fire up. Guess what, when I opened the throttle wide open it would fire... The battery was old on it so I knew it was just an old battery, but sounds like you guys with the Teneres..... After I put a new battery in, the FJR fired right up and good as new... As several of you have said, I wounder if its a voltage "issue".... For the people that are having start up issues, what electronic farkels do you have on the bike ? It might be a common "part" for the guys having issues...... just a thought
The one time I had the hard start problem, it was after the bike had been sitting for two weeks. Battery didn't seem weak so didnt think that was the cause of my problem. But reading this, it may have been. I don't have an explaination though, starter turned over just like usual.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:40 AM   #15667
WARRIORPRINCEJJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstrom View Post
Loved them on my Strom... tried them on the S10 and tore them up. But would be fine if you are gentle with them and dont expect too many miles out of them.

http://supertenere1200.com/2011/10/1...ko-experience/

I'm about as gentle as a sledgehammer. So, these might not be the tires for me.

My "AVG MPG" (never reset) has been creeping-down since Day 1. I'm just above 31 MPG (and dropping), right now. So, I have a feeling that the 705s would take a helluva' beating.


Thanks to all who took the time to reply...


.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:05 PM   #15668
~TABASCO~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstrom View Post
The one time I had the hard start problem, it was after the bike had been sitting for two weeks. Battery didn't seem weak so didnt think that was the cause of my problem. But reading this, it may have been. I don't have an explaination though, starter turned over just like usual.

Hey DC...

Yep, just as I said with my FJR, your bike sounds like the same way........ I wounder if the "ignition system / ECM" needs to see a certain amount of current before it will fire off a spark... ?

The starter on the FJR will turn the motor over (what seemed) just fine..... But it was really hard starting, until I installed a new battery..... I also has the battery on a tender...

Just a FYI...... I have a customer with a Tenere.. He let me look at his Tenere for a custom part. While we where talking he was complaining that his volt meter was acting all screwy. When I went to go start it, the darn thing would turn over but not start. It would turn over fine but not start. I had to put it on a charger and hold the throttle wide open. It barely started after fifteen minutes of screwing with it... After I got the bike back to him, he found that he had some type of "wiring" issue with his fuse block and his volt meter. The battery had been on some type of slow discharge, and the battery was week. After he found the issue and fixed it, he has had no more issues with the battery or starting....... Don't know if this will help, but thought I would throw this out on the WWW.....
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:11 PM   #15669
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This makes sense since the consensus is that the bike is flooding. No spark and constant cranking would lead to a flooded condition. I'm not sure why wide open throttle would cause it to start....
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:13 PM   #15670
markjenn
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Again, let's not confuse a contributor factor with a cause. It's not news that a weak battery makes a vehicle, any vehicle, harder to start. The fact remains that many S10's have failed to start with a completely charged/good battery - the fact many have reported cranking for minutes and minutes to finally get it going confirms that.

- Mark
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:17 PM   #15671
Coastalcop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~TABASCO~ View Post
Hey DC...

Yep, just as I said with my FJR, your bike sounds like the same way........ I wounder if the "ignition system / ECM" needs to see a certain amount of current before it will fire off a spark... ?

The starter on the FJR will turn the motor over (what seemed) just fine..... But it was really hard starting, until I installed a new battery..... I also has the battery on a tender...

Just a FYI...... I have a customer with a Tenere.. He let me look at his Tenere for a custom part. While we where talking he was complaining that his volt meter was acting all screwy. When I went to go start it, the darn thing would turn over but not start. It would turn over fine but not start. I had to put it on a charger and hold the throttle wide open. It barely started after fifteen minutes of screwing with it... After I got the bike back to him, he found that he had some type of "wiring" issue with his fuse block and his volt meter. The battery had been on some type of slow discharge, and the battery was week. After he found the issue and fixed it, he has had no more issues with the battery or starting....... Don't know if this will help, but thought I would throw this out on the WWW.....


Hey Jaxon, when things slow down I will get you those pics of the super T, I called nad am still waiting on a return call from scotts but I am following up. have a great one!!
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:19 PM   #15672
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
I'm not sure why wide open throttle would cause it to start....
WOT is generally standard operating procedure to start any flooded vehicle and is often mentioned in the OM.

With engines with direct connections between the throttle and the throttle plates, WOT opens the throttle plates and pumps a lot of air through the engine, purging it of excess fuel and allowing a combustible mixture. With drive-by-wire throttles, there is speculation that the ECU notices the WOT condition and either opens the throttle plates and/or cuts off fuel although this hasn't been totally confirmed. In any event, it generally works.

- Mark
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:05 PM   #15673
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
WOT is generally standard operating procedure to start any flooded vehicle and is often mentioned in the OM.

With engines with direct connections between the throttle and the throttle plates, WOT opens the throttle plates and pumps a lot of air through the engine, purging it of excess fuel and allowing a combustible mixture. With drive-by-wire throttles, there is speculation that the ECU notices the WOT condition and either opens the throttle plates and/or cuts off fuel although this hasn't been totally confirmed. In any event, it generally works.

- Mark
OR there is a map for neutral and "clutch in" that just makes the throttle follow the input, just in case.

Seems to me me when I was doing the hard start tests the further I twisted when starting the further the motor jumped when it fired. JUST LIKE A STANDARD CARB SETUP.

I never used WOT. 1/2 - 3/4 was fine.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:59 PM   #15674
Happy Snapper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave6 View Post
My experience with the hard start has always been because of slightly low battery (playing with it in the shop, wiring accessories etc.). I also have the powered tank bag ring which draws all the time and if left without running or charging for some time it will drain the battery enough that it turns over good but will not start. Put the charger on it for a few mins. and it fires right up. Some people turn off their bikes with the kill switch and then walk away with the lights on etc. This may be enough to reduce what the battery has to start the bike. This bike seams to need a full charge to start the bike. I have 30,000 kms on the bike now and have never been stranded because of hard starting or any other reason. I used to own a 1968 HD so I understand what hard starting is all about. A second battery would not be for me.
How can the power tank ring draw current with nothing connected to it?

It is simply a "power point" for plugging accessories into?
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:59 PM   #15675
Dallara
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Laugh You leave for a few days and look what happens...

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Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
I love Dallara. :) And he has helped quite a few folks on forums...

...And I still think Rockport drivers suck...


Aw, shucks, Snake... You shouldn't have.

And I'll take Rockport drivers over Houston ones - especially the ones in old Caddy's, Lincoln's, and Monte Carlo's with 25" wheels and spinning hubcaps...




Quote:
Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
As for DLC coating...

...I want it. Cuz it's something to show the GS dudes. :)


Well, not to be bragging, but so far the only part of my Super Tenere any BMW rider has seen is the taillight...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
Congratulations GrahamD, you just reiterated what I stated months ago on the Super Ten forum.

Slightly flat battery really isn't part of the picture. You did too much, but thank you for your sacrifice all the same.

Doesn't really matter. People will refuse to believe they are the problem or are doing anything wrong. Gotta love Roy, Dude, it's not a Suzuki, deal with it.

And the guy with 8 bikes in the garage, it's not the other 7, it's a Yamaha and there is a known issue with EFI Yamahas. The cold start sequence doesn't like to be interrupted. Do that, then let it sit, it will display the hard start 99% of the time.

Why? Who cares? You know how to deal with it, so DO THAT and stop whining like a 6 year old that had the chain come off her trike.


Couldn't agree with ya' more, on every point, Dirty Bike!

It is looking more and more, almost by the minute, that the "hard starting problem" is one of simple "operator error"... And again, that's not to say anyone is doing anything actually "wrong". Just that they aren't following the proper starting protocol.

Both my Aprilia and my late model Ducati's had starter buttons that once pushed kept the starter engaged until the bike started. The rider didn't have to hold the button down. They just kept cranking until the bike fired or you flipped the kill switch or turned off the key. Funny, too... A bunch of Ducati and Aprilia owners on forums *COMPLAINED* vehemently that such operation was a "problem" much like folks claim this one is, and wanted the factory to "fix" it!

No two bikes are alike, nor are their handling characteristics, power characteristics, etc. Why should it surprise anyone that different brand and model motorcycles might have slightly different starting routines or protocols?

As for Roy... Don't worry about him. All he *EVER* does is rant, rave, and throw temper tantrums. He never has anything constructive to say, nor has he ever tried to help a soul. Most of his posts are of the "Look at ME! Look at ME!" type, and tend to lack any substance.

Loved how his experience of "hard starting" happened once in the garage and then again loading his S-10 into a *TRAILER*... Makes you wonder if he ever actually rides it!



Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
That's simply not true. Tens of us can do all the "wrong" things and the bike will start time after time. Then do the "right" thing and it won't fire. There are contributing factors certainly, but there is a random element to this problem as well.

- Mark


Sorry, Mark... That just doesn't hold water. Either the bikes have a hardware or software issue or they don't. Modern motorcycles, or the electronic systems don't tend to have "random" events - and when they do it's usually catastrophic, i.e. the engine blows up, or the ECU quits altogether, etc. They don't just decide not to start on a "random" basis.

OTOH, it is quite possible for humans to perform "random" events that spawn a "random element". You might start your bike exactly the same way hundreds of times, but then just that *ONE* time you don't hold the starter button down, or inadvertently give it just that little bit of throttle during a cold start, etc. and *BOOM* - now you've got a flooded engine and a "hard starting problem".

It certainly makes more sense than their being some sort of evil, "random" mechanical gremlin that only attacks certain riders at certain times, and some of those many times, yet always right there close to home.



Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
WOT is generally standard operating procedure to start any flooded vehicle and is often mentioned in the OM.

With engines with direct connections between the throttle and the throttle plates, WOT opens the throttle plates and pumps a lot of air through the engine, purging it of excess fuel and allowing a combustible mixture. With drive-by-wire throttles, there is speculation that the ECU notices the WOT condition and either opens the throttle plates and/or cuts off fuel although this hasn't been totally confirmed. In any event, it generally works.

- Mark


OTOH, for the most part all that's entirely true, but before we go there...



Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
OR there is a map for neutral and "clutch in" that just makes the throttle follow the input, just in case.

Seems to me me when I was doing the hard start tests the further I twisted when starting the further the motor jumped when it fired. JUST LIKE A STANDARD CARB SETUP.

I never used WOT. 1/2 - 3/4 was fine.


I've been trying to tell folks there is a "neutral map" in the Super Tenere's ECU for quite some time, despite some saying there's just no way. If you think about it a moment it's the only thing that explains why the ever-popular CJM (clutch jumper mod) works, and why that say CJM *removes* the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear throttle restrictions.

I would imagine there is, indeed, software in the Super Tenere's ECU that has the throttle butterfly stepper motor exactly mimic throttle input during starting - i.e. in neutral or with the clutch in. This was one reason I kept asking about throttle cable adjustment. If the throttle cables were adjusted incorrectly then during starting they could be in the improper position for proper starting. However, once the engine is in gear and rolling with the clutch out the ECU would begin to modulate butterfly opening according to its mapping. Use the CJM and this goes out the window...

But back to to starting... If the Super Tenere does have such a "neutral/clutch-in map", and it does have the throttle butterfly stepper motor directly follow twistgrip input, then that would readily explain why throttle manipulation during a recalcitrant start-up would help clear up the problem.

Just my two centavos... YMMV.

Dallara




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