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Old 03-03-2010, 07:57 AM   #1681
jeffs900s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknot
Perhaps it is because we know the difference between Yamaha and BMW. Total trust vs anxiety and mandatory towing insurance.
I'll just say that this has not been my experience. I have had a few problems with BMWs in the past, but certainly no more than with other bikes I've owned, inlcuding a few Yamahas (R6 and FZ6). Since this bike effectively does not exist yet - I'd like to wait and see how they hold up before attributing some mythical reliability. Though I'm seriuosly hesitant to give Yamaha any more of my money, I do hope that they have a success with it.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:13 AM   #1682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adv_dr
I was hoping for something different for Yamaha. It looks like the SUV trend of a decade ago in the car market has hit motorcycles. Big, overweight, expensive bikes posing as go everywhere, offroad vehicles.

Oh well, there is still hope that Triumph will do it right with their 675 version of the Tiger.
Yamaha are a "for profit" organization.
The market for bikes in this segment is huge and the sales figures of BMW's GS range are there to prove it.

KTM have the "offroad twin" pretty much dominated with the 9XX ADV and SE and the BMW there for a piece of the pie with the 800GS and X country.

None of these bikes are perfect, except the KTM 950 :), but, they all do their job pretty well.

I like the Tenere and, if I was to replace my Vstrom in the future I would consider buying one. I feel a lot of people will come from the big BMW, Buell, Vstrom and many step up from the singles like the KLR. The market in Europe is even bigger than here as a lot of riders there seem to prefer the big trallie over the cruiser, which is an American icon.

The marketing for the Tenere gave a lot of people the impression this was a more offroad twin ie, lighter. This is marketing. Here you have the balding middle aged man looking at the computer monitor seeing some dude flying across the desert on a beautiful bike, racing to his next harem and he's thinking, "well at least I can buy the bike". This brings him closer the the dream of being that guy. He will ride it to Starbucks, sit by the window, stare at it, waiting for someone to look admiringly at it and then run out and tell them about the trip he is planning around the world on it. Then a little ride around the neighbourhood and it's back to reality. So what, he has money and a dream but, just not in a position to fully exploit all that life has to offer. Career, family, mortage etc hold a lot of people from the trip of a lifetime.

This is what the majority of GS riders and future Tenere riders do. These are people with money and they can spend how they will. They don't care how heavy the bike is, they will never be in a situation where they will drop it and if they do, people will run out of Starbucks to help them lift it.

I'll admit it because this is what I do with my Vstrom.
I have other bike's for fun.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:22 AM   #1683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatwhacker
I'll admit it because this is what I do with my Vstrom.
I have other bike's for fun.

How dare you out us like that.


I once fell down on my Buell out in the desert, the front wheel wasn't even visible the sand was so deep..I had to go get help to stand the damn thing back up and that was "only" 500 pounds. I got rid of that thing and bought a Yamaha cruiser bike.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:27 AM   #1684
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It can also appeal to a slightly younger person who already has an offroad worthy dual sport (WR250R) and is looking for a street bike to eat up miles with. I'm not sure I really want the appliance-like Goldwing, a vibrating big cruiser, the side-wind problems of the Vstrom, or the final drive problems of a BMW.

The big 10 looks like it would eliminate all of those problems while happily eating up interstate miles. We don't know for sure if this is true yet or not, but at least it looks promising. I just hope we get a chance to find out for ourselves over here in the States at some point.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:39 AM   #1685
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Nice touch I wasn't aware of: the footpeg rubbers are collapsible, ie. they stay on while you are seated, but dip into a recess once you're on the pegs. No need for aftermarket items..

And I also didn't realise that the bike gets the cross-plane crank, fwiw.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:41 AM   #1686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
I don't know why I am surprised, but 99% of you know nothing about the bike other than what you read here.

Why is it that everyone criticizes the GS, but when Yamaha comes out with a heavier, just as expensive, bike, it is suddenly just fine, shaftie and all?

Big dogs always get challenged, even if the challenger is totally unproven. Everyone wants to see the king get dethroned!

Jim
This thread alone has almost 100,000 views since the S10 launch. You're right that folks are very interested.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:59 AM   #1687
R3B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden
Why is it that everyone criticizes the GS, but when Yamaha comes out with a heavier, just as expensive, bike, it is suddenly just fine, shaftie and all?
Well that's what is called experience...

Just look around for complaints and downright breakdowns for the F650GS, and hen try to find something about the XT660Z :-)

The GS is a verrrry good concept (i'n riding one you know...) and the first sieries had it's trouble, the second was better, but the third, the 1200 is abominal bad, sloppy constructions, elektrical gremlins so much the film pales next to it, and horrendous maintenance costs when you hit the driveshaft or valvetrain jackpot (no that's not warrenty, you allready drove more than 65.000)

We now have a XT660Z, but the only real trouble was a corroded connectorto the rectifier giving three outs in 12000 km (the last time the rectifier blew up) and shrunken cushdrive rubbers.

Our 1200 stopped on its maiden trip, with electronic mayhem, only stopped by pulling the battery, and after that the known leaks and squeeks, we actually are a wee little bid glad it was crashed, so the neusance of "going to the doctor" stopped. Even though our dealer really did its best, we met him way to often !


But you are right we don't know for sure, if it is as good as it gets, but the fact it was thought to be ready last year (inside info) they pulled teh curtain closed again and bugtracked te beast for over a year...

And just that is the one thing i like the most of Yamaha, not pushing out a new model every year, but finetune it until it meets kodo requirements, teh 660 was also 3 years in developement... And what a rocksolid bike it is, and that motormanagement is a real dream, no surging and between 5 liters/ 100km Autobahn burning and 3,6l/100km Touring de Ardenne
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:06 AM   #1688
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My experience is totally oposite. I have 125K miles on BMW, I have never had a trip stopping experience, or major malfunction, and neither have any of my friends on BMW on any ride I have been on.

Can't say the same for my Yamaha though, or my Honda, or my Kawasaki.

Point is, hype works both ways. I doubt that this bike will be any more reliable than any other bike, or any less. The fact that it is a Yamaha doesn't automatically make it bulletproof. The fact that it is a blatent rip-off of the GS style, but even uglier IMHO, doesn't seem to bother anyone. At least Ducati went their own way!

Jim
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:09 AM   #1689
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Talking about new Yamaha models, I've got the first year ('08) WR250R, which was a 100% brand new model. I've got 7k completely trouble free miles on it so far
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:14 AM   #1690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krabill
Talking about new Yamaha models, I've got the first year ('08) WR250R, which was a 100% brand new model. I've got 7k completely trouble free miles on it so far
Let us know when you hit 50K. Any bike should easily hit 7K miles with no issues.

Now dozens will jump in with stories about this bike or that breaking down 5 miles from the dealer, mostly exagerated.

Jim

PS Not knocking your bike.
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:15 AM   #1691
bross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatwhacker
Yamaha are a "for profit" organization.
The market for bikes in this segment is huge and the sales figures of BMW's GS range are there to prove it.

KTM have the "offroad twin" pretty much dominated with the 9XX ADV and SE and the BMW there for a piece of the pie with the 800GS and X country.

None of these bikes are perfect, except the KTM 950 :), but, they all do their job pretty well.

I like the Tenere and, if I was to replace my Vstrom in the future I would consider buying one. I feel a lot of people will come from the big BMW, Buell, Vstrom and many step up from the singles like the KLR. The market in Europe is even bigger than here as a lot of riders there seem to prefer the big trallie over the cruiser, which is an American icon.

The marketing for the Tenere gave a lot of people the impression this was a more offroad twin ie, lighter. This is marketing. Here you have the balding middle aged man looking at the computer monitor seeing some dude flying across the desert on a beautiful bike, racing to his next harem and he's thinking, "well at least I can buy the bike". This brings him closer the the dream of being that guy. He will ride it to Starbucks, sit by the window, stare at it, waiting for someone to look admiringly at it and then run out and tell them about the trip he is planning around the world on it. Then a little ride around the neighbourhood and it's back to reality. So what, he has money and a dream but, just not in a position to fully exploit all that life has to offer. Career, family, mortage etc hold a lot of people from the trip of a lifetime.

This is what the majority of GS riders and future Tenere riders do. These are people with money and they can spend how they will. They don't care how heavy the bike is, they will never be in a situation where they will drop it and if they do, people will run out of Starbucks to help them lift it.

I'll admit it because this is what I do with my Vstrom.
I have other bike's for fun.
The market is huge? The US is BMW's third largest market and they sold 9,168 bikes last year, that's ALL models not just GS/GSA's etc. And Yamaha want just a piece of that HUGE market. That's a pretty big investment considering making parts available for 7 years etc. for a few thousand bikes.

Numbers taken from here, click on the link for the large print edition.


http://faithcottage.smugmug.com/Frie...66_ic26g-O.jpg

We always scream about never getting this bike or that bike in North America but reality is we just don't buy em. Well, I bought one, I bought Honda's Adventure bike when they brought it to Canada... my CBF1000. Love the bike, but laugh every time I see Adventure anywhere near it.

bross screwed with this post 03-03-2010 at 09:22 AM
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:59 AM   #1692
wheatwhacker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bross
The market is huge? The US is BMW's third largest market and they sold 9,168 bikes last year, that's ALL models not just GS/GSA's etc. And Yamaha want just a piece of that HUGE market. That's a pretty big investment considering making parts available for 7 years etc. for a few thousand bikes.

Numbers taken from here, click on the link for the large print edition.


http://faithcottage.smugmug.com/Frie...66_ic26g-O.jpg

We always scream about never getting this bike or that bike in North America but reality is we just don't buy em. Well, I bought one, I bought Honda's Adventure bike when they brought it to Canada... my CBF1000. Love the bike, but laugh every time I see Adventure anywhere near it.
That's just American sales.
Total number of BMW GS range of motorcycle are as follows.

BMW 1200GS.....................15864.
BMW 1200GSADV................8,803.

Total units from the 1200GS range..............24,667 worldwide.

10-20% of this market would be about 2,500-5,000 units.

Not a lot at all, but, it is the "biggest selling segment" in the big dual sport section so, I'm sure Yamaha want to be part of it.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:01 AM   #1693
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US MIC-member sales numbers 2008-2009

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcyc...statistics.htm
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:31 AM   #1694
RaY YreKa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
We now have a XT660Z, but the only real trouble was a corroded connectorto the rectifier giving three outs in 12000 km (the last time the rectifier blew up) and shrunken cushdrive rubbers.
The tradition continues! The old XTZ750s were (and are) well known for blowing up rectifiers
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:49 AM   #1695
Anorak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krabill
Talking about new Yamaha models, I've got the first year ('08) WR250R, which was a 100% brand new model. I've got 7k completely trouble free miles on it so far
I worked with another mechanic who raced Supermoto with a YZF250. He revved it to the moon. He had no issues and the valve stayed in the normal range for the full season without adjustment.
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