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Old 06-02-2013, 07:31 PM   #18091
snakebitten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post

I'm pretty sure one of the guys you are arguing with has an 1100 spring on his STOCK VALVED shock! That should put some perspective to it.

ac
Not true. That fella is a gent. Very helpful to other inmates. And I don't think he has even responded.

But I do wish he would get a proper shock. He spends HOURS on that bike. A real road warrior. His bike is so sorted in so many ways for burning up the road. It deserves the upgrade. :)
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:37 PM   #18092
William42
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Originally Posted by llamapacker View Post
Dallera, I think you are full fledged A$$. You are going on ignore list, good bye!

Well I don't agree with you about Dallera. He has always given good advice and information as far as I am concerned.

Ignore might be your best bet.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:41 PM   #18093
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its not difficult ot go to a spring maker and take your spring with you and get a new one wound esp for you...but you really need to then get the shock revalved to suit the new spring.I dont understand why you would spend thousands and thousands on a grest bike and then "bastardise the most crucial part for the riding/comfort perfrormance
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:45 PM   #18094
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Actually, how can you ignore Dallara?

The thread got a bit dramatic today. I thought that was what the other forum is accused of. This is the wild and crazy thread.

That's what happens if Pluric doesn't come out to play?

Even Graham couldn't break up the rumble. (nice try though)


My wife asked me what I was paying so much attention to on my day off. I gave her a summary. She asked me what is an ignore list and can she get one?
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:56 PM   #18095
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Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
...The thread got a bit dramatic today...

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Old 06-02-2013, 08:05 PM   #18096
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Oh, c'mon Eric...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
Take your example of the child running out in front of you...

Now, remember, you're going 25 mph. No difference which car you're in.

I don't recall saying a word about how fast anybody was going... But it doesn't matter. One car stops, steers, etc. better than the other one. You're the one trying to "split hairs", Eric... Because nobody in their right mind would think a Geo Metro would have the same accident avoidance capability as any equal vintage Ferrari...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
You're splitting hairs. Is the premier suspension from any company better than the oem? Oh hell yes. But it's not a life changing event. And some riders simply can't afford to drop money to replace something that works with something that works better, regardless of how much better, because what they have works.


No, again Eric, you're the one desperately trying "split hairs"... On one hand you admit "premier suspension" is, indeed, better than the OEM, but then turn around and say nobody needs it better suspension because it costs money... That's a rather dubious argument at best.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
Would I have preferred to spend the coin on full custom suspension? You bet! I know what that's like and ride enough to appreciate it. I just can't afford to do that right now. Regardless of the need for it.


Of course, if you had spent the coin on suspension componentry then perhaps you wouldn't have had to try so many different seats...

(just kidding)

Seriously, the handling and safety advantages offered by better suspension components are not somehow reduced just because you can't afford them. The benefits are still there, plain and simple.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
I'm not arguing the points about me, but for the average rider that rides probably less than 10k a year and wants stuff to make the use of his bike more enjoyable to him, for his needs. It's just silly to point out how great the custom suspension is, regardless of why you think it's so great, to someone that is never going to spend the money to replace something that already works for them.


How are those riders going to know what's out there, and why it may be superior to what they have, unless people talk about it?

After all, how are people to know that a RumBux skid plate is better than Yamaha's accessory plate unless people talk about it... Here, there, and everywhere else. The RumBux product is pricey, too, but are you going to say no rider needs it simply because it's expensive? And are you saying that only "good" riders need a better skid plate because they will the ones going faster off-road than the average joe?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
Bottom line, for the average rider, custom suspension is way down the list of things they want to spend money on. And if you convince them to do so, they will be disappointed in the results for the money they spent.


So now you speak for all "average" riders, and you know what they will like and what they will be disappointed in?

Honestly, I know a lot of "average" riders that have been thrilled with upgraded suspension components, and you need only look around ADVrider just a tiny bit to find hundreds of them.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
I rode with a guy years ago that had 100k+ on his ST1100 on the stock suspension. On a road that had the average amount of imperfections, repairs, etc. he was complaining about all the bumps. I, on my full custom GP suspension on the much newer FJR, still with 80k+ was wondering "what bumps?". But you know what? At the end of the day he rode the same miles I did, got to the same place I did, and had just as much fun.


Here's what I mean about tap dancing... I talk about safety, and you try to spin that around to somehow compare it to "fun". Sorry, not the same thing. Not even close.

But let's look at your friend, since you brought him up... Did you perhaps suggest to him that upgrading his suspension might make those bumps go away, or did you simply assume you knew what he wanted and say nothing? Did you think that perhaps he might not have been as tired, fatigued, etc. with better suspension, and therefore maybe wouldn't have been complaining at the end of the day?

And let's look at those bumps he was noticing, and the fatigue they were sure to have caused...

If he was having to devote any of his attention to the bumps, or even trying to avoid some of them, then he was diverting some of his attention to other potential road hazards. With better suspension he would have been more focused further up the road, where his concentration should be. And clapped out suspension is certainly fatiguing... And a fatigued rider is most definitely not as sharp as a more comfortable, rested one.

So we're back the point I've been making since the beginning... He may have just as much fun, but was he as *SAFE* and as capable of *AVOIDING* a potentially hazardous situation with his crappy suspension as you were with your "full custom GP suspension"???

I doubt it, and there's no way you can argue he was if you were even close to equal riders...

I'm not saying everybody needs to go drop a ton of money on better suspension. Not at all. All I'm saying is that *ANY* rider, regardless of skill level or experience, can benefit from better suspension. He will be more comfortable, have a better handling, more satisfying mount, and be in a better position to avoid an accident or mishap with the best suspension he can put under him... He'll be *SAFER* with it than without it.

If you can't afford it, fine. But that doesn't mean it has any less of an advantage.

BTW, that's why bikes today have better suspension systems than bikes of the past. Like anything else, most like to improve what they've got. Manufacturers try to do it every year. Riders do, too.

Dallara



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Dallara screwed with this post 06-02-2013 at 08:12 PM
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:08 PM   #18097
Dirty bike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avc8130 View Post
Dallara,

You are arguing suspension clearly with guys who just don't get it.

"The best you know is the best you've ridden."

I'm pretty sure one of the guys you are arguing with has an 1100 spring on his STOCK VALVED shock! That should put some perspective to it.

ac
You are correct about the 1100 lb spring AC. And remember, you've never ridden it either. And you don't even come close to running the weight I do, or riding the way I do. Our needs are different, as, apparently, are our budgets.

No harm, no foul. I've had custom suspension set up right. I know exactly what the differences are. And you and Allan won't accept or admit that for the average rider, the difference is tiny. Ridden the way the average guy does, not screaming into corners, trail breaking and hammering out of the apex, but riding legal speeds and taking it easy on the road and trails, having the top of the line suspension isn't gaining them much. Allan forgets that at the lower speeds of 'normal' riding, the difference in the response and feedback of custom suspension Vs stock is tiny and insignificant. Not the difference between crashing and not crashing. THAT difference is in how we ride for the conditions, not what we bolt onto our bikes.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:15 PM   #18098
Dirty bike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
I
Seriously, the handling and safety advantages
~
Enough fun for tonight my friend. Bullshit. Man up and accept that you're full of it. The "safety advantages"? That's a pile of steaming crap. Insignificant.

There are zero safety advantages to custom suspension over properly working oem suspension, Period. Argue all you want, you'll just pointing out that you refuse to grasp the reality of the nut behind the bars is where the safety lies.

You're not comparing disk hydraulic brakes to mechanical drum brakes here, you're comparing a fully functional suspension system to one that's slightly more compliant and much more adjustable. Can you better adjust it to meet your specific needs? You bet. That does not equate to safer.

More fatigue? Then listen to what your body is telling you and stop more. That's not safe or unsafe because of the bike. It's the rider that needs to pay attention.
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #18099
snakebitten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
You are correct about the 1100 lb spring AC. And remember, you've never ridden it either. And you don't even come close to running the weight I do, or riding the way I do. Our needs are different, as, apparently, are our budgets.

No harm, no foul. I've had custom suspension set up right. I know exactly what the differences are. And you and Allan won't accept or admit that for the average rider, the difference is tiny. Ridden the way the average guy does, not screaming into corners, trail breaking and hammering out of the apex, but riding legal speeds and taking it easy on the road and trails, having the top of the line suspension isn't gaining them much. Allan forgets that at the lower speeds of 'normal' riding, the difference in the response and feedback of custom suspension Vs stock is tiny and insignificant. Not the difference between crashing and not crashing. THAT difference is in how we ride for the conditions, not what we bolt onto our bikes.
Ooops. I thought it was a different fella with that shock. No offense Dirty Bike, I was defending someone else. My bad.


You know, this whole sudden spirited debate seems like it got started simply because some of us have recently upgraded our suspensions and have posted how much we love it and how much of an improvement it was.

That in turn, seemed to irritate a couple of folks and they responded as if they were somehow insulted for either having oem suspensions or for not thinking it was really worth it to do the upgrade.

I assure you that I will strongly defend anyone's right to have their own point of view. Their own preferences. But I don't think folks should be so easily offended.

(not talking about you specifically dirty bike)
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Old 06-02-2013, 08:43 PM   #18100
Dallara
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Bluhduh Yassir, Massah Eric, Sir... Toby be a good ni...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
Enough fun for tonight my friend. Bullshit. Man up and accept that you're full of it. The "safety advantages"? That's a pile of steaming crap. Insignificant.

There are zero safety advantages to custom suspension over properly working oem suspension, Period. Argue all you want, you'll just pointing out that you refuse to grasp the reality of the nut behind the bars is where the safety lies.

You're not comparing disk hydraulic brakes to mechanical drum brakes here, you're comparing a fully functional suspension system to one that's slightly more compliant and much more adjustable. Can you better adjust it to meet your specific needs? You bet. That does not equate to safer.

More fatigue? Then listen to what your body is telling you and stop more. That's not safe or unsafe because of the bike. It's the rider that needs to pay attention.


Sorry, Eric... You switching tactics to throwing sh*t and seeing if it sticks doesn't change a thing. My opinion is that good suspension most definitely increases safety, and to a significant degree. Just because you don't agree doesn't change my opinion, nor make it any less valid than your own.

Real bullsh*t is saying something like this...

"There are zero safety advantages to custom suspension over properly working oem suspension, Period."

and expecting folks to believe it.

You'll get no argument from me that ultimately the rider is the biggest single factor in his own safety on a ride. That doesn't mean that his taking advantage of superior components doesn't increase the safety operationally of his vehicle... Just like good tires are better than crap ones, fresher brake pads are better than old worn-out ones, etc., etc., etc., good suspension is safer than lesser suspension.

As far as suspension adjustment goes... Of course having suspension that can be better adjusted to suit one's comfort, needs, and preferences is better - and safer. Otherwise bikes would all still have twin-shocks without even preload adjustments, along with springer or girder front ends with friction dampers. The wonderful OEM Super Tenere suspension you are raving about with such dedication and devotion is a direct result of the better aftermarket suspension components of just a few years ago. And what are today's suspension upgrades will be tomorrow's OEM...

That's called progress. And bikes handle better, and get safer, more comfortable, etc. all in the process.

You can have tomorrow's improved OEM suspensions today, if you want. You just have to pay for it.

Your arguments now are beginning to border on daft, so you must tired. Get some sleep.

Dallara


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Old 06-02-2013, 09:15 PM   #18101
pluric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
Actually, how can you ignore Dallara?

The thread got a bit dramatic today. I thought that was what the other forum is accused of. This is the wild and crazy thread.

That's what happens if Pluric doesn't come out to play?

Even Graham couldn't break up the rumble. (nice try though)


My wife asked me what I was paying so much attention to on my day off. I gave her a summary. She asked me what is an ignore list and can she get one?
Holy shit! I go one day without derailing a thread and look what a train wreck it turns into.

Several pages of great suspension advice and some panty twisting that you can almost feel. (0ww)

Dallara gives some of the most helpful advice based on experience with great referral links to
really helpful people. There is a scroll wheel for anyone who is not interested. Please don't risk
pissing off such a wealth of information and possibly lose his willingness to share.

It's the internet, it's based on opinions. If an opinion is truly like and asshole and every has one,
I'm sorely outnumbered.

No one has to accept any recommendation made by anyone else. I have to say I've got some great
ideas from other inmates and seen some things that were more WTF to me. Take the information
you can use the best or interests you the most and run with it. Don't shoot the messenger.

Now would someone please quote Dallara's last few pages so I can see what he said?
This ignore thing can be a real pain in the ass.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:56 PM   #18102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgios View Post
Can you imagine, that people from other parts of the world find americans with 250 lbs ugly?
Hell I find myself ugly and I'm only 225 lbs.

I also understand the other parts of the world do not understand American humor, much less mine.
I was actually making fun of myself and the stereotypical overweight American by acting shocked
an adult could weigh 155 lbs. If you are ever in the States look me up and I'll be happy to buy you
a Big Mac combo and even Super Size it!

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Old 06-02-2013, 11:07 PM   #18103
White Tenere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
My opinion is that good suspension most definitely increases safety, and to a significant degree. Just because you don't agree doesn't change my opinion, nor make it any less valid than your own.


You'll get no argument from me that ultimately the rider is the biggest single factor in his own safety on a ride. That doesn't mean that his taking advantage of superior components doesn't increase the safety operationally of his vehicle... Just like good tires are better than crap ones, fresher brake pads are better than old worn-out ones, etc., etc., etc., good suspension is safer than lesser suspension.

As far as suspension adjustment goes... Of course having suspension that can be better adjusted to suit one's comfort, needs, and preferences is better - and safer. Otherwise bikes would all still have twin-shocks without even preload adjustments, along with springer or girder front ends with friction dampers. The wonderful OEM Super Tenere suspension you are raving about with such dedication and devotion is a direct result of the better aftermarket suspension components of just a few years ago. And what are today's suspension upgrades will be tomorrow's OEM...

That's called progress. And bikes handle better, and get safer, more comfortable, etc. all in the process.

You can have tomorrow's improved OEM suspensions today, if you want. You just have to pay for it.

Dallara


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Old 06-02-2013, 11:38 PM   #18104
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
Hell I find myself ugly and I'm only 225 lbs.
In Australia your nickname would be "Slim". No one tends to understand that either. Especially Ze Germans and Dutch
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:20 AM   #18105
Georgios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
Hell I find myself ugly and I'm only 225 lbs.

I also understand the other parts of the world do not understand American humor, much less mine.
I was actually making fun of myself and the stereotypical overweight American by acting shocked
an adult could weigh 155 lbs. If you are ever in the States look me up and I'll be happy to buy you
a Big Mac combo and even Super Size it!

Everything all right, my friend. I probably really misunderstood your humor.

And for the burger offer, who knows, perhaps I can upgrade my 155 lbs a little bit.
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