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Old 06-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #18481
Dallara
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Laugh Grips... And more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anticyclone View Post
^^^^^ What he said. Well, except for the part about the grips .

Believe it or not, there are actually folks around here who make rather odd implications about those who use the stock Yamaha grips. The implication seems to be you can't be much of a rider, or have the proper experience, or ride the right way, or something... unless you change to something other than the Yamaha grips...

Figure that one out, if you can...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
I'm not sure what your fired up about Dallara. I didn't say or imply anything negative about the re-flash. And I said some remove the T mode, not all. As I recall, the Italian company's re-flash effectively removes the T mode. There are more than one company doing re-flashes.


You might want to reexamine the subject , Eric... Last I checked there were only three outfits doing the re-flashes on the Super Tenere - ECUnleashed, Diapason, and Off-Road.De - and none of them "effectively removes the T-mode", though the ECUnleashed Gen 1 - just like the one I had - blurred the differences between S- and T-mode the most according to all reports and reviews.

One of the reasons I know the differences is I spent a ton of time researching the subject before I spent the money to have a re-flash done, and I corresponded with all three companies to discuss their work. I also corresponded with folks who had the various re-flashes from each vendor.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
Everyone has their own take on spending money to change things. Spending money to change something the OP hasn't even experienced yet, well, that's his decision. Different viewpoints might help him decide if that's something he should consider part of the price of buying a Super Tenere or not.


Sure folks all have "their own take on spending money to change things"... Some like their bikes to handle better, some like them to run better, some want off-road protection, etc. Some even think their grips are the most important determining factor in the suitability of their ride to push all their buttons...

But you really ought to take a closer look at what the "OP" to this particular ECU discussion posted... He *HAS* test ridden a Super Tenere, and apparently its engine performance and power delivery didn't impress him, and so he asked about the "Gen 2" mod. Here's an example of his thoughts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGERRIDER007 View Post
...This sounds exactly what I seek. After riding a stock demo bike about a year ago or so, I understand what you all say about it being, tame and predictable. That's what I found. I kept asking myself, as I rolled on the throttle each time, "Where's my inspiration? Where's the grin-maker?"
If gen2 mod supplies the grin-maker, then I may move the ST to the top of the list, in white of course.
If this really livens up the motor, to hooligan status, well, now we are talking!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
There are a lot more people riding Super Tens w/o the re-flash than with it. Despite the vocal minority.

Certainly true, but does fact in any way, shape, or form negate the benefits offered by the ECUnleashed Gen 2 re-flash? Does it somehow mean those benefits shouldn't be posted about so those that don't have it can learn about it?

Just like there are those who are only concerned about tire mileage or what grips they are running, there are lots of folks interested in improving performance, power delivery, smoothness, and fuel economy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
You did a great job of explaining what the Gen 2 and ECU re-flash was, but in that post you didn't really say much about the benefits of it aside from saying it ran "better". You did a nice job of expanding on that in the second post, despite the useless bits attempting to improve your own ego.


Well, at least I have some personal experience with the all three configurations - stock, Gen 1, and Gen 2 - in which to base my conclusions on. See if this sounds familiar...

How much experience do you have riding with various re-flashes, Eric? None, I would guess. I on the other hand, have first hand, personal experience actually doing it. I know what it's like and how it works. You propose that you have a clue. You don't. You can't see out side the box.

(remember that street tire discussion on the other forum? Does that sound like something you said? )




Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGERRIDER007 View Post
...If gen2 mod supplies the grin-maker, then I may move the ST to the top of the list, in white of course.

If this really livens up the motor, to hooligan status, well, now we are talking!


Yes, TigerRider... It most definitely does. The difference is not the least bit subtle. It's a dramatic improvement in not just power output, but the bike also runs smoother with less vibration across the board, has better power delivery and linearity, and gets better fuel mileage, too.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
From the peanut gallery, does the Gen 2 reflash have a significant impact of fuel economy when you are just "touring" (as opposed to being in "Hooligan mode")? Dallera might have the best baseline, given his miles and that the rest of the bike is stock, but anyone else track mpg?


To answer your questions, Gryphon12... I saw no noticeable gain in fuel economy going from stock to the Gen 1 ECUnleashed re-flash. No better, no worse under any condition I noted in riding with it over a year.

OTOH, I have been noting a 3 to 5% gain in fuel economy since the Gen 2 re-flash. Not only does the bike run better, smoother, quicker, etc., but yes, it gets better fuel mileage, too... And I haven't ridden it any different than before. In fact, with as much more fun as I've had twisting the throttle now with the Gen 2 re-flash I was really expecting the fuel mileage to be worse. That hasn't been the case. My fuel mileage is definitely better since the Gen 2.


Dallara




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Old 06-18-2013, 02:57 PM   #18482
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I have an 'Italian company' reflash and can assure you guys the T-mode is far from being 'effectively removed.' In fact, keeping the T-mode intact and unchanged was the only way Diapason could get Yamaha Italy to buy off in the reflash. Diapason is also the only reflash that reverts to T-mode on shutdown.

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Old 06-18-2013, 02:58 PM   #18483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilageidgit View Post
I'm waiting for the Gen3 ECU reflash and the XT800Z
You'll save lots of money that way.

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Old 06-18-2013, 03:37 PM   #18484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post


Yes, TigerRider... It most definitely does. The difference is not the least bit subtle. It's a dramatic improvement in not just power output, but the bike also runs smoother with less vibration across the board, has better power delivery and linearity, and gets better fuel mileage, too.

Dallara

~
I'm glad you felt it too. Seems like most are so wowed by the performance jump that no one
has mentioned the bike feels smoother on the vibration end too. I never felt my vibe levels
were bad. Zero in the seat and pegs and a little in the bars. The last longer ride I was on
I kept thinking "I swear this thing is smoother". Maybe I'm not nuts after all. Do shrinks give
refunds?
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:46 PM   #18485
Dallara
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Laugh Vibes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
I'm glad you felt it too. Seems like most are so wowed by the performance jump that no one
has mentioned the bike feels smoother on the vibration end too. I never felt my vibe levels
were bad. Zero in the seat and pegs and a little in the bars. The last longer ride I was on
I kept thinking "I swear this thing is smoother". Maybe I'm not nuts after all. Do shrinks give
refunds?

Funny about that...

I never felt like my S-10 vibrated much, either. A little here and there in the rev range, worse at some lower speeds, but never anything that I really even noticed, much less that bothered me in any way. The best part was that at anywhere around 85 MPH (on the GPS), from about 82 to 90 in 6th, my bike was almost eerie in how glass-smooth it was with the Gen 1 re-flash...

And that leads to one of my only disappointments with the Gen 2 re-flash. Now that wonderful, glassy-smooth "sweet spot" is now at around 77 or 78 MPH (again GPS MPH) - from about 73 to 80. It's still plenty smooth at 85 and 90, but there's a bit more than there used to be. My "sweet spot" has moved to a slower speed, damn it!!!

Now I do have to say I haven't re-synched the throttle bodies since the Gen 2 re-flash, so I'm hoping that maybe that will help. We'll see...

Dallara



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Old 06-18-2013, 04:05 PM   #18486
Dirty bike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGERRIDER007 View Post
"It gives a hooligan nature to a bike
known in it's stock form to be a bit boring. Distinct difference between T and S mode.
I find myself using T mode in town because it makes for a smoother ride in that the
bike doesn't over respond to throttle input. S mode you get what you asked for."- Pluric

This sounds exactly what I seek.
If this really livens up the motor, to hooligan status, well, now we are talking!
Honest question: If you're seeking a hooligan bike that gives you that grin factor, why are you looking at a 600 lb big trailie?

I am seriously curious. There are a ton of lighter bikes that are more 'hooligan' in nature out of the box than the Super Tenere. Buying the Super Ten and then proceeding to spend a significant amount to make it sportier, for lack of a better term, isn't the direction that makes sense to me. That doesn't make it wrong, just confusing to me.

Perhaps one of you gents can explain that to me?
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:19 PM   #18487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
Honest question: If you're seeking a hooligan bike that gives you that grin factor, why are you looking at a 600 lb big trailie?

I am seriously curious. There are a ton of lighter bikes that are more 'hooligan' in nature out of the box than the Super Tenere. Buying the Super Ten and then proceeding to spend a significant amount to make it sportier, for lack of a better term, isn't the direction that makes sense to me. That doesn't make it wrong, just confusing to me.

Perhaps one of you gents can explain that to me?
It gives a very versatile bike even another level of versatility. You have a great touring bike,
off road explorer and now a sport bike feel to it. The good news is you are not locked into
any one category. My FZ1 was my "hooligan" bike before. Kind of buzzy for long rides, shit
off road but big grins with power wheelies and such.

No the reflash doesn't make it feel any lighter, but with a simple mode switch you can
have almost the best of both worlds.

As far as "spend a significant amount" people pay way more for an exhaust system that
I seriously doubt gives anywhere near the results of the ECU mod. Look what you put into
side crash bars, bash plates, racks etc... that may never be needed. The reflash is used
every time you start it up.

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Old 06-18-2013, 04:25 PM   #18488
Dallara
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Cool2 As long as we're asking questions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty bike View Post
Honest question: If you're seeking a hooligan bike that gives you that grin factor, why are you looking at a 600 lb big trailie?

I am seriously curious. There are a ton of lighter bikes that are more 'hooligan' in nature out of the box than the Super Tenere. Buying the Super Ten and then proceeding to spend a significant amount to make it sportier, for lack of a better term, isn't the direction that makes sense to me. That doesn't make it wrong, just confusing to me.

Perhaps one of you gents can explain that to me?


Before I answer that let me ask you a couple of questions, Eric...

Why would anyone who primarily uses their bike for IBA-style long-distance rides pick a big 600 lbs "big trailie"? Certainly there are more appropriate bikes for that... FJR's, C-14's, Gold Wing's, RT's, K-bikes, etc.

After all, Yamaha certainly never intended the Super Tenere to have a 4 or 5 gallon fuel cell hung out over the back, do ya' think?

(and an ECUnleashed re-flash is considerably less expensive than that fuel cell...)

Dallara



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Old 06-18-2013, 04:38 PM   #18489
Dirty bike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
Before I answer that let me ask you a couple of questions, Eric...

Why would anyone who primarily uses their bike for IBA-style long-distance rides pick a big 600 lbs "big trailie"? Certainly there are more appropriate bikes for that... FJR's, C-14's, Gold Wing's, RT's, K-bikes, etc.
A fair question. I didn't. I sold my rally prep'd FJR, (parted back to mostly stock), and bought the Super Tenere to do more off pavement riding and touring, including a planned trip back to Alaska, going farther North than I had before, possibly up the Haul Rd. I was winding down my rally carreer and not planning on doing another multi-day rally.

About 6 months later, I found out I got drawn for the IBR. I didn't really expect to get drawn. 2-3000 people supposedly put their names in for the rally and 100 or so get drawn. With prior finishers getting two chances.

So I was sort of stuck making the Super Ten into a rally bike if I wanted to do the IBR. As you accurately noted, there are far better bikes for that. I really like the Super Ten for what it does well, and didn't want to lose money selling it so I could afford to buy another FJR, then spend the same or more to make it into a rally bike again. I had already sold all the rally specific bits from the old FJR.

Either way, I was going to have to start from scratch to build up a rally bike.

edit: Actually, the fuel cell only cost a little more than the ECU flash. People do spend waay more, and quite a bit less for fuel cells, but a friend made it for me and I assisted on fabrication and did all the plumbing/bulkhead install myself. You can buy a Jaz fuel cell for $200 or so and make a simple frame, they don't have to be expensive.

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Old 06-18-2013, 04:42 PM   #18490
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Damn Dallara always bringing up great points.

Many of us are multi bike owners who keep a niche bike for each category of use.
The Tenere blurs the category boundaries by being able to add an easy performance
mod. I sold my FJR because the Tenere was more comfortable and for me handled
turns better. So it became my sport tourer, I seldom take the KLR anywhere because the
Tenere has impressed me with where it will go ( a little heavy breathing and some bent wheels later)

So now it is a D/Ssporttouringhooligan.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:44 PM   #18491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
It gives a very versatile bike even another level of versatility. You have a great touring bike,
off road explorer and now a sport bike feel to it. The good news is you are not locked into
any one category. My FZ1 was my "hooligan" bike before. Kind of buzzy for long rides, shit
off road but big grins with power wheelies and such.

No the reflash doesn't make it feel any lighter, but with a simple mode switch you can
have almost the best of both worlds.

As far as "spend a significant amount" people pay way more for an exhaust system that
I seriously doubt gives anywhere near the results of the ECU mod. Look what you put into
side crash bars, bash plates, racks etc... that may never be needed. The reflash is used
every time you start it up.
Thanks Pluric. I see your point, to a degree, on the ECU flash Vs other items. Certainly more bang for the buck than an exhaust. Err, I sort of know my crash bars are needed. At least for me.

Perhaps it's because I wasn't looking for more power coming from the FJR, that had more power. And I didn't know about the off idle stumble until I read about it on the forums. Never noticed such a thing personally.
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:59 PM   #18492
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Interesting Banter.

Occasionally I go off and fill in survey forms for YAMAHA or Suzuki in the past.

One thing I mentioned to YAMAHA in the last one in a free form section, is that in the ADV segment could they use technology for "versatility" as a priority rather than "gimmicks". I also mentioned that they may need to do a separate gimmick model until people "get it". IE do what is true, not what it fashionable on at least one model.

So we all know that the best ADV bike will have 400HP and weigh 20Kg and have 100Inches of suspension travel, ability for a 4 foot and a 7 foot Texan / Dutch person to ride comfortably and be able to tow a trailer and full 200L boxes while simultaneously being able to elbow slide through the dragon on the way and blow off any Turbo Hyabusa you may come across all for $5000 and then head to an MX track and get 100ft of air in front of the crowds fully loaded and nothing will ever break to boot and the tires will go from slicks to knobbies when you hit the remote air down button. Oh and a 500mile range from a 1 gallon tank. You read it all the time on forums. That should be stuck up the wall at YAMAHA and they should be working toward it I think. Call it an ambit design brief.

So the re-flash at this point, looks like it solves the power / hoon stuff, without killing range and leaves the T mode intact Seems like a step in the above direction. I have a few thousand dollars left in my pocket and potentially many hours of up time because I didn't buy another brand so the cost and downtime of a re-flash is really of no concern. Bit different if the budget is stretched just to get the S10 but comparatively speaking there is a lot of savings in this bike initially in a few countries. So a small step in the right direction for those that want it.

What I didn't want to see is this power improvement but a loss of range and KTM fuel consumption. Sounds good on an engine that can still run basic gas (petrol) if needed. It will be on the shopping list.

I don't know whether YAMAHA was hampered by emission requirements, Safety concerns or were just trying to dial in some "character" on an otherwise flat torquey motor but whatever the reason it can be modified. Now if they could just do that with an "Easter egg" map unlocked with a "secret" pin code or something that would be even better.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:05 PM   #18493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post

So we all know that the best ADV bike will have 400HP and weigh 20Kg and have 100Inches of suspension travel, ability for a 4 foot and a 7 foot Texan / Dutch person to ride comfortably and be able to tow a trailer and full 200L boxes while simultaneously being able to elbow slide through the dragon on the way and blow off any Turbo Hyabusa you may come across all for $5000 and then head to an MX track and get 100ft of air in front of the crowds fully loaded and nothing will ever break to boot and the tires will go from slicks to knobbies when you hit the remote air down button. Oh and a 500mile range from a 1 gallon tank.
.
I thought that is the new XT800 that people are waiting for. No?
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:08 PM   #18494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
I thought that is the new XT800 that people are waiting for. No?
And people are just going to be so pissed when YAMAHA lets then down again..
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:27 PM   #18495
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