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Old 03-07-2010, 03:55 AM   #1846
Paulvt1
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I love this new Super 12(?) - but, the price that Yamaha UK want is just too much. I can only hope they take the criticism on board and price the "standard" bike accordingly, oh, and get some in the dealers so we can demo them.
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:23 AM   #1847
twinrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul thompson
I love this new Super 12(?)
The 10 in Super 10 has nothing to do with engine size but rather the bike's name, the Super Tenere. Doh!
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:27 AM   #1848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG.
Anyone posted this detailed explain...
http://www.fullnoise.com.au/new_prod...ts=53201030151
Very thorough announcement. Doesn't seem to state availability, though.

It sure should put Suzuki on notice.
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Old 03-07-2010, 04:41 AM   #1849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrider
The 10 in Super 10 has nothing to do with engine size but rather the bike's name, the Super Tenere. Doh!
True. But why should this matter? We can invent whatever nickname we like. Doh!
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Old 03-07-2010, 05:02 AM   #1850
MOLAHS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
Nah, it's even "scientifically" proven, in Germany they do follow the real world statistics, and Honda is No1 in reliability, Yamaha No2, and sadly but true, BMW is on its way down, last year the were 5th, and falling.

The most horrific thing of all is that almost every Beemer tested in their longterm test had Major Technical troubles, with the new K1300 runining its engine beyond repair *twice*...
http://www.motorradonline.de/de/moto...est-bmw/242687
And it's 1200cc brethren had clutch troubles also, it cost 3 clutches before the longtermtest could even start...
http://www.motorradonline.de/de/moto...uhrpark/104511

And shure Yamaha has it's troubles too, but they are fixed fast and without to much fuss, remember the 1 Clutch in 2004 (yes you'll need a good memory with Yamaha :-)
(Yes the Tenere had its troublestoo, in 1987... (5th gear))

We can go on and on about who is better, but whats the use?

There is solid data enough, to prove what i'm saying, but that data is publicly available, just go and search for Recall, or if able to read german read some long term test at Motorrad-online.de
Hey, C'mon givuss a kiss and makeup !
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Old 03-07-2010, 06:30 AM   #1851
Paulvt1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinrider
The 10 in Super 10 has nothing to do with engine size but rather the bike's name, the Super Tenere. Doh!
New bike. New moniker.
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Old 03-07-2010, 06:53 AM   #1852
twinrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul thompson
New bike. New moniker.
New bike. Same name.
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:24 AM   #1853
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Hey Ernst, have you put a deposit on this bike already?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
That's something you have seen right, it isn't "cheap" in anyway, very solidly built, it really looks the peace (of mind :)
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:02 AM   #1854
dallastx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
Ah, and you have evaded thoze taxes with your beemer?

Or do those costs just ad up to every sold bike its price?


As stated earlier, be fair in comparing, don't bias one side or another on incoherent grounds, but on facts. I could give lots of Quotes from other sites, stating the same as stated earlier, eand you know thattoo.


It's quite simple...

If you don't like the Super Tenere, why in hells name are you reading here, that's pure sadomasochism, please yourself and have a good day in one of the many many "ooh aahh i've go myself an expensive gizmobike" threads concerning the F800GS,but beware there are a lot of horror stories about seizures, collapsing backwheels etcetera , if you are afaid of such stories you better stay here :-) (i'f you grasp what imean by that...)


ANd now for something completely different: I've been invited to Schiphol Rijk, to have a real life taster of the Tenere !
(many thanks to Jeroen Termaat making it possible)

Hey, me too: I was invited by my dealer Van Meel in Made/Oosterhout, so I'll probably see ya there!
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:10 AM   #1855
Lion BR
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Hey Ernst,
I still would like to see the data on the F800GS. Since you brought out this subject here, I guess we can continue this conversation. Here in advrider, we have known about a few issues with the F800GS, some were corrected on advisory campaigns (the water on the snorkel and into airbox problem in rainy days), some were recalled (front axle, software, tank), some important problems that nobody knows what BMW is doing about (rotor side rear wheel bearings and rear shock bolt bending). I blame BMW for not coming forward on some of the problems - such as the rear shock bolt - that can be really expensive. Look at Toyota... anyone can fall from the top, and the fall is always bigger when from the top. I want to know what is going on, because I'm in the market for a bike. Certain problems on bikes, I don't mind.

You bring statistics, Ernst. In the end, some of us do not buy our bikes based on price, statistics, or any other rational sense. Some, if not most of us, buy a bike based purely on what emotions they evoke on us. Some of us buy because we are somehow attached to a brand, like you clearly are with Yamaha, Ernst. Some buy on a balance of several factors.

Although Honda can be number 1 in reliability, they don't currently offer anything exciting. And you are not rushing to the Honda shop to go buy a bike, are you Ernst? According to your arguments, you seem to be a candidate for a Honda. But we all know this is not true, right?

I have a nice Yamaha bike (WR250R) that I won't sell in the foreseeable future. I also have a totally problem free (an exception by your books, Ernst) BMW Dakar F650GS. I'm bored with this bike and looking for a replacement for it. I have test ridden the F800GS and it is an amazing bike from the rider perspective! The books and the statistics and the mag reviews can not convey these emotions. Man, what a bike.

I was hoping the Tenere would be more like the F800GS. A smaller, lighter two-cylinder bike. So I could get the reliability and hopefully I would also have the fun factor. Not to be.

The Ducati is on my eye sight as well. But it is on another league. Eventually I know I will get something like that to complement my stable with a bike with a more street bias. Perhaps when midlife crises sets in - a red M12 one would fit the bill.

But for aggressive gravel and dirt roads, on long trips, I'm leaning to change the Dakar for an F800GS. Because I know the F800GS can do it and that it can be extremely fun - I've tested it. I'm not in a hurry though, I'm checking on the progress current F800GS riders have made with their bikes and see if they or BMW have sorted the problems.

If the big KTMs were not so tall and heavy, they would be candidates for that segment as well. Extremely competent bikes. Honda's rumors are too far in the distance, and who knows if whatever they design and build will ever make it to these shores.

Eventually I will test drive the Super Tenere - but that would be in addition to that middle weight bike. But right now, if I add a pig to my stable, which I want to - a bike to comfortably cruise the highways on long distances, and eventually get on some gravel - I can buy a well proven R1150GS in great condition for 6 grand. Yeah, but the final drive... sure, it will break. And I will still be saving money when compared to the super tenere. And the re-sale price is great on these big BMWs.

Again, in the end, it is great that we have more options on the large bike segment. Hopefully we will always have the boxer twins or some derivation of that engine as an option. And hopefully, as we see bikes improving in technology and excitement, one can also hope that we, the people on earth, can also improve and evolve along the way.

Lion

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
Nah, it's even "scientifically" proven, in Germany they do follow the real world statistics, and Honda is No1 in reliability, Yamaha No2, and sadly but true, BMW is on its way down, last year the were 5th, and falling.

The most horrific thing of all is that almost every Beemer tested in their longterm test had Major Technical troubles, with the new K1300 runining its engine beyond repair *twice*...
http://www.motorradonline.de/de/moto...est-bmw/242687
And it's 1200cc brethren had clutch troubles also, it cost 3 clutches before the longtermtest could even start...
http://www.motorradonline.de/de/moto...uhrpark/104511

And shure Yamaha has it's troubles too, but they are fixed fast and without to much fuss, remember the 1 Clutch in 2004 (yes you'll need a good memory with Yamaha :-)
(Yes the Tenere had its troublestoo, in 1987... (5th gear))

We can go on and on about who is better, but whats the use?

There is solid data enough, to prove what i'm saying, but that data is publicly available, just go and search for Recall, or if able to read german read some long term test at Motorrad-online.de
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:19 AM   #1856
J-Dub24
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While on the Yamaha Euro site checking out the new Super Tenere I noticed the new up coming FZ-8, I only see three headers. Lets see, Three cylinder 800 in an adv chasis...Super Duper Tenere . Yes obviously I am partial to triples.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:40 AM   #1857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dub24
While on the Yamaha Euro site checking out the new Super Tenere I noticed the new up coming FZ-8, I only see three headers. Lets see, Three cylinder 800 in an adv chasis...Super Duper Tenere . Yes obviously I am partial to triples.
If you look at the naked version, you can see that 4 exhaust pipes are attached to the engine. The Fazer image doesn't show that clearly. Even better here:

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Old 03-07-2010, 02:01 PM   #1858
RaY YreKa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
A rumor that we've been hearing for at least the last four or five years.

- Mark
It's been known for a while that it can't meet the latest emission regs.
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Old 03-07-2010, 02:43 PM   #1859
R3B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR
Hey Ernst,
I still would like to see the data on the F800GS.
Go and see teh english german and dutch fora, i'm not going tu duplicate al that data in this thread, you have had your troubles with the same bike less some horsepower, i can't believe you a're not able to do the math, if you put even more stress on the same system it will give even mor troubles, as stated look through the F800(x) dauertests on Motorrad-online.de

Quote:
Eventually I will test drive the Super Tenere - but that would be in addition to that middle weight bike. But right now, if I add a pig to my stable, which I want to - a bike to comfortably cruise the highways on long distances, and eventually get on some gravel
If i read your story, it reads more like a queste for the "little" Tenere, it's much more fun offroad than the F800GS, and it's way more docile, where the F800GS is more like a first version TDM, so nickpicky ont throttle input its surging ore belting away, when you try to manouvre skillfully in the dirt.

The XT660Z just feels much more "together", can not excactly discribe how it feels, but were the F800GS has a sort of "no i dont want into thecorner, oooh now i fall into it" the Tenere has just a little slow following.
(comes out of the enormous gyroscopic forces of the 21๋r)
To me the F650GS is a way better bike to ride, the F800 is tiresome, but the Tenere is both more "together" and much more controllable fun, a powerslide with the XT is perfectly controllable, on the F800 its like on the older TDM more a hit or miss operation, before you know it you overshoot the corner.

My hope is that the Superten, combines the lard/lumpiness of torque like the original R11GS has, combined with the aweinspired complacency of the little Tener in the off road sector (but it will be less stablefooted by it's small 19"er)

The S10 will be snotted offroad by its little predecessor, but the endless backroadburning we like to do will be much more comfortable because the longstroke "V-twin" of the S-10 will eliminate the gearchange process :-)
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:06 PM   #1860
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If i read your story, it reads more like a queste for the "little" Tenere, it's much more fun offroad than the F800GS, and it's way more docile, where the F800GS is more like a first version TDM, so nickpicky ont throttle input its surging ore belting away, when you try to manouvre skillfully in the dirt.

If i read your story, it reads more like a queste for the "little" Tenere, it's much more fun offroad than the F800GS, and it's way more docile, where the F800GS is more like a first version TDM, so nickpicky ont throttle input its surging ore belting away, when you try to manouvre skillfully in the dirt.

The XT660Z just feels much more "together", can not excactly discribe how it feels, but were the F800GS has a sort of "no i dont want into thecorner, oooh now i fall into it" the Tenere has just a little slow following.



I don't know where you get that nonsense, but that is what it is. I traded the old model TDM for the F800gs and neither bike was what you are describing. The TDM was a very easy bike to ride with all the throttle modulation you could ever ask out of a carburater. I will grant you it was more a corner carver than a flickable sport bike but than it wasn't a sportbike. The F800gs is fuel injected with the instant power that fuel injection gives. If you ride on pavement you will be clapping your hands over the power delivery. I never have had an issue getting it to turn in or falling in as you describe. It has been rock solid and very predictable. A long wheel base makes it a carver also, but it is not a sport bike either. Only on dirt, at off idle speeds, over rocky terrain will throttle control be an issue. If the bike had lower gearing in first gear it would not be an issue even there. A simple $79 G2 throttle tube with an eccentric throttle cable wheel makes it go away.
Since this thread is about the new Yamaha, not what I am looking for, but based on my experience with Yamahas and their racing heritage I expect it to be very well sorted out if you are looking for a touring bike that can also do dirt roads.

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