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Old 08-20-2013, 01:56 PM   #19441
snakebitten
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I think OEM ECU is programmed for Fan to come on at 221F?
Then turn off at 110F.

I do know that when mountain climbing in 1st and 2nd gear, that fan "cycle" is pretty constant. Even in cooler ambient temps.

And in Texas, during the winter, with a constant speed of about 55-65, mine settles around 169-170F. So I assume that is below thermostat opening temp?

32,000 miles on mine. The dang thing is near flawless. Any load. Any weather. Can't believe this thing came from a clean-sheet design and got it so right. (Minus some global warming induced nuances)
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:14 PM   #19442
Dallara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakebitten View Post
I think OEM ECU is programmed for Fan to come on at 221F?

Then turn off at 110F...

Didn't you mean "turn off" at 210F?

Dallara


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Old 08-20-2013, 02:30 PM   #19443
Bill-66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
Well, that's not exactly true...

There is not "zero" flow. Coolant circulates through the engine, driven by the water pump. It just doesn't flow between the engine and the radiator until the thermostat starts to open.

Just want to make sure we stay on the same page here.

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Old 08-20-2013, 02:44 PM   #19444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
Didn't you mean "turn off" at 210F?

Dallara


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Old 08-20-2013, 02:46 PM   #19445
Aventurier
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And now for something different...

Sorry to intrude on the conversation.
In regards to temp, at freezing air temp the bike will eventually reach 160 and stay there when cruising at 60 on the highway. Right now with 80 to 90, it will get to 169 in 6th gear, but climb rapidly at a stop.
Anyway, I've posted a new entry on my blog http://madstadonsuperten.blogspot.com/
It's about this guy, me, who's too cheap to purchase an off-the-shelf extra lights kit, so spends hours devising a DIY kit. And it works.
Prerequisites
Yamaha Super Tenere 2012
Givi crash bars
Bill of Materials
Set of 2 10W 8° Cree LED (on eBay by http://www.ebay.com/usr/eg-motor, 56USD). I wanted narrow beam so as to project far. For just conspicuity, obviously a wider beam is preferred.
1 LED controller which allows to dim the lights when in low beams, and automatically go to full power when on high beam. This one is waterproof. Although large, it fits perfectly in the Super Tenere fairing. 45USD
2 “2.3mm - .090 Tin plated Male Terminal” for Sumitomo MT 090 Series connector. They’re only 21 cents each and there’s a 5 USD minimum order limit here, so order a couple more just in case, as well as a 2-prongue pair of connectors to extend the left hand side projector leads. Also order your one posi-tap there.
Some electrical wire to extend the left hand side projector leads.
1 Posi-tap for tapping into the high-beam wire. I’m guessing you need the 18-gauge connector. Can be ordered at the same size as the Sumitomo stuff. I myself ended up using 18-14 mid-line taps, that's cheap and it works.
Couple of male/female connectors to connect the dimming module to the 2 projector leads. I used weather proof crimp terminals from Lowes (very expensive considering what you’re really getting - consider simple non weather-proof bullet or butt terminals). I shoulda gone to Frys instead, which sells all sorts of electronics for good prices.
Stuff to attach the projectors to the crash bars: this may be specific to the Givi bars. For each side:

1 flat 3”xTBD” iron, pre-drilled (I got those at Lowes, they’re designed to put furniture together. One of the holes will need to be enlarged to receive the projector screw
2 U bolt clamps, 1 ⅛” size. You really need 2 - with just one, the projectors will rotate freely around the contact points. Got these at Lowes as well, 2.54 USD each. Get the stainless steel variety.
Either blue loc-tite, or replacement nylon insert nuts for the bolt clamps. Loc-tite is preferred since it's needed anyway for the projector nut.
4 extra washers identical to the ones that come with the projectors. I don’t know the size since I did not use any. In a perfect application I would use them because the flat iron is not large enough and the rubber, anti-vibration washers provided extend past the bars. The effect is that you can’t tighten as much without the washers as with them.
Some black tie-wraps to route the projector leads. The leads should not touch the engine block nor even the plate attached to the block, which both get very hot. The Givi center spacing bar seems to always stay cool so that’s a good attachment route.

If you want to see some pictures go to the blog. Cheers!
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:20 PM   #19446
Dallara
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Maybe, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
Yes..of course..I assumed that was a known..


Well, that's *NOT* what you said. In fact, you did say there was "ZERO" flow... right here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
...What do you think is happening, when you start your bike and it's cold..there is ZERO water flow..until enough heat builds up to start the thermostat opening...


There definitely is coolant flow, just not between the engine and the radiator.

Just don't want any confusion.

Dallara



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Old 08-20-2013, 04:19 PM   #19447
gharshman
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Thanks to Mark and Dallara for the more specific answers. It reminds me that I have a service manual that I have not really read yet...

Anyway, on the way home, got some instrument pics. At 82 degrees and constant 70mph (indicated) on 2-lane country road, bike stabilized at 169. On the 4-lane interslab at 84 degrees and 84 mph (indicated), bike was also 169. Not much load and not many hills on either stretch. I know it's just two data points, but it leads me to believe that the cooling system is slightly more effective at the faster speed, but also raises some questions for me. Does brand-new oil carry away heat faster than half-used oil? Does synthetic carry away heat faster than organic? Does humidity play a factor? What are the other factors?

I certainly didn't mean to make anybody go head-explody. I was just curious about others' experiences. Not emotionally attached to any result.





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Old 08-20-2013, 04:38 PM   #19448
pluric
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Shouldn't you be texting or something at 70 miles an hour?
Unless it's a camera phone and you were multitasking then
that's cool. (no pun intended)
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:45 PM   #19449
markjenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gharshman View Post
Does brand-new oil carry away heat faster than half-used oil? Does synthetic carry away heat faster than organic? Does humidity play a factor? What are the other factors?
When folks talk about an engine running hotter/colder with different oils, I think they're talking about variances in how an engine has more/less internal friction due to the oil, not how well the oil transfers heat away from the engine. If there are significant variances in the heat transfer properties of different oils, I'm not aware of them.

Everything else being equal, a thinner oil (lower viscosity) should result in less internal engine friction and less heat load to the cooling system. This is the primary reason we've seen such a shift towards thinner oils being recommended for cars - to raise fuel mileage even ever so slightly which can result in higher CAFE numbers for the car maker. (I think that in some cases these thinner oils do tend to put small increases in fuel mileage ahead of engine longevity.) And generally speaking, oil thins with time in use, both because of contaminants and because the oil molecules tend to "shear down" in use, making the oil less viscous. So there may be some slightly reduction in internal engine friction as oil ages. Beyond this, I doubt anything else makes much difference. It's a common mis-conception that synthetic oil is "more slipperly", but conventional and synthetic oils of the same viscosity basically behave the same with respect to things like internal friction.

Humidity plays no role. Engines don't loss heat by sweating, so they couldn't care less about relative humidity in how they cool.

My "gut" is that within the normal variances in these sorts of things, what oil you put in your motorcycle has very little influence on how hot it runs.

- Mark
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #19450
twinrider
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I did notice that when I switched from minderal to synthetic on my R1100RT, the engine temps dropped considerably. Not sure if this would have any relevance on a liquid cooled engine though.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:26 PM   #19451
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gharshman View Post

I certainly didn't mean to make anybody go head-explody. I was just curious about others' experiences. Not emotionally attached to any result.
Hey we have nothing else to talk about here. Unless you can give us a real problem we'll take anything.

Would you like an electrical equivalent schematic. I think I may be able to conjure one up for you.

Then you can stick it on the bench and watch what happens.

If that is too old school, maybe someone could do a software simulation.?

You'll need some specific heat values though.

Executive summary..
PAO has a thermal conductivity of 0.14 W/m°C. POA is a type of synthetic oil. Mobil I is POA.
Water/glycol has a thermal conductivity of 0.50 W/m°C. What's in your radiator.

IE Water Glycol is 3.6 times better at conducting heat than synthetic oil, no mater what BMW's marketing department says.

Deionized water is 16% better than water/glycol mix until it gets contaminated and corrodes the engine, Then it's not so good. (good for racing when it's not going to sit around for long offset against it's lower boiling point)

Details.
Here is a beginners guide..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity

And some overview material..

http://www.lytron.com/Tools-and-Tech...Liquid-Cooling

So that could keep you occupied for a while.

By the way once the heat is transferred out of the hot bits inside the engine it has to then be transferred into the air.

So you will need to know the total surface area of your engine and radiator including all pipes and flow rates at any given temperature of all heat transfer fluids involved.

Do you understand why manufactures are so keen on intelligent CAD packages these days?
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:59 PM   #19452
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Just my opinion

After suffering through multiple GS ownership disappointments, and to more other bike purchases than I want to count. I would like to say-- the marketing department at Yamaha has completely dropped the ball on the ST. This is one of the most underrated bikes that I have ever ridden or owned. It just works, put some gas in it, throw a bag on the back, and ride. Enough said.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:13 PM   #19453
snakebitten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerscott View Post
After suffering through multiple GS ownership disappointments, and to more other bike purchases than I want to count. I would like to say-- the marketing department at Yamaha has completely dropped the ball on the ST. This is one of the most underrated bikes that I have ever ridden or owned. It just works, put some gas in it, throw a bag on the back, and ride. Enough said.
I've heard this comment several times over recent years. And I agree that the S10 is so much more than non ST owners seem to get.

But I don't know what else Yamaha can do but have the gonads to build it, then be committed to it long enough for the world to figure out the truth.

I mean, visit the various threads on this forum. There's a fair amount of indifference, and even vitriol towards the Tenere. And thats by the very people that should be snatching them up. (If you can believe their desire to actually use an Adventure bike to go on an Adventure)

You think magazine ads or TV commercials would turn the tide?

Truth is, it DID take gonads to stay REAL to the 1200cc version of a dirty ADV bike. They had to know that many of the attributes that give it the proper prowess that it has would be the same things that hurt it in the reviews.

I have mine. Somehow they "marketed" it well enough to get PDP commitments!
It's not Yamaha that is screwed up. It's us! We are posers. Lol


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Old 08-20-2013, 06:40 PM   #19454
RoyQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
Shouldn't you be texting or something at 70 miles an hour?
Unless it's a camera phone and you were multitasking then
that's cool. (no pun intended)
Why is that a problem? I thought everyone could multitask and ride these days

I-40 crossing New Mexico


And hells yes I can text and ride as well, thought everyone could
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:45 PM   #19455
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerscott View Post
After suffering through multiple GS ownership disappointments, and to more other bike purchases than I want to count. I would like to say-- the marketing department at Yamaha has completely dropped the ball on the ST. This is one of the most underrated bikes that I have ever ridden or owned. It just works, put some gas in it, throw a bag on the back, and ride. Enough said.
Bear in mind that this comes from my perspective as an Aussie.

I do not see any adds for any motorbikes on TV. So that's a wash.
Where I do see motorbikes on the idiot box is in Lifestyle shows and Documentaries.

What do you see on lifestyle shows? Harleys. Segments with motorbikes usually have Harleys with pillions as paying customers with second rate helmets and sunglasses and totally under dressed doing the Lifestyle thing.
The majority of bikes in the Tourism Market Rentals/advertorials/Lifestyle shows are Harleys.

Not Stars, not Boulevards, Not Vulcans and surprisingly for two up tours Not Goldwings. I have seen one segment where they refereed to a Harley Tour but they were riding Vulcans. The average Joe watching that wouldn't have picked it up.

Now the doco's. BMW's. Charlie on a BMW. Some reporter on a BMW, Some random bloke in Africa on A BMW, Why? Either sponsorship or the fact that you have BMW rentals everywhere which is a tradition started when they used to be reliable, under stressed bikes.

Crotch rockets?
You see them on the news. You don't see the badge. You see then running past someone on the back wheel, with an idiot SKWID in shorts and no helmet stunting on the freeway. You see police chasing them, You see them doing burnouts in car parks with police padding a few people down. You see horrific accidents. You know they are Japanese brands but not what brands.

So what images does this leave in peoples minds..

Cruisers = Harleys = Hoilidays = Chillout.
BMW = Adventure = Exotic Locations
Crotch Rockets = Trouble = Police / Death = Japanese = low rent lifestyle.

And the other things in most peoples heads..

Vacuum cleaner = Hoover or Dyson.
Wound Dressing = Band Aid.
Beans = Heinz.
Jeans = Levi's
Sunglasses = RayBan.

I am waiting for the Crotch Rocket revival when all the young people of today suddenly have a crisis and want to relive their bad boy youth.

I have ridden two brands of Adventure bike. Both Japanese. Nice BMW is the most common response from the General Public.
I know Metric riders get the "Nice Harley" just the same.

SO it appears that the best thing to do is just sign up some popular people who know a thing or two about how to ride bikes and try to get some paid for content out there disguised as series documentaries. This may or may not cost too much.

Set up YAMAHA owned rental businesses that will at least make some available. The only S10 rental I could find is in Melbourne 1000Km away. These business should be able to run at least break even.

Then you may score some extra sales and be able to buy some adds with something that is recognized in them and build from there.

Apart from the enthusiast who is aware of the facts, there is a whole bunch out there that have a pretty simple take on what is available.

Maybe you can shed some light on your personal journey to YAMAHAdom farmerscott.
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GrahamD screwed with this post 08-20-2013 at 07:00 PM
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