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Old 10-08-2010, 09:40 PM   #4891
tremor38
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For 'THONG,' please see below numbers from a less biased and more competent group of testers. Look a little different from the numbers MCN came-up with? Look at 50-120 roll-on performance and 0-100 times in particular. The S10 beats all bikes expept the Multi-strada which is a much more narrowly focused bike, despite all the hype.

If MCN didn't know enough to select the proper mapping and traction control modes, that shows they are incompetent. If they were just sand bagging the S10's numbers, that's typical behavior from them.

You also have to put into perpective that the crew at MCN are mostly tarmac cruising pub-crawler, who rarlery see dirt, so they grade based upon what they are most familiar with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3B
At last a full practicality test in a Dutch Magazine that is not totally owned by BMW (althugh the GS still wins Off the Road ?!?

Some very interesting data

Code:
Bike    HP    0-    50-    V-    Wgt    Brake    Price
type    PK    100    120    Max    KG    M/s    full-ops
 
GSA    113    4.1 s    8.2    215    291    9.35    21.740
MUL    147    3.3 s    7.1    245    238    9.32    21.300
VAR    091    4.3 s    8.3    203    301    9.09    14.490
XTZ    104    3.8 s    8.2    221    276    10.02    16.999
So despite its meager power Output it shows the GSA its taillight, and coming toe a standstill the GSA has stil about 24 km/h speed left, it travels another 2,8 meters until standstill...

Quite obvious the other Magazines tested in T with TC active, some measuring only 194 V-Max
And performance wise the Tenere is way more efficient with its Horsepowers 6 km/h more with 9 HP less:-)
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Old 10-08-2010, 10:28 PM   #4892
Suzuki Phil
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Found this on craigslist.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv...996381007.html

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Old 10-08-2010, 10:40 PM   #4893
Deuce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremor38
P.S the magazine is MCN and results were predictable because they ALWAYS favor the euro bikes, unconditionally.
Sorry to burst your balloon tremor38 but 'BIKE' magazine did a group test against the 1200GS, Ducati Multi 1200, and the S10. They even had Simon Pavey along as a guest tester. The S10 was deemed adequate, but no match for either the GS or Multi.

We are still waiting up here in Canuckistan for Yamaha to release the CDN$ price. My local dealer went to the Cdn intro in Whistler, B.C. last week. He says it was a 'nice' bike to ride but no where near as fun as a KTM 950/990.

I still want one though. For me it will be perfect and I will do some mods to make it 'fun'.
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:09 AM   #4894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
Sorry to burst your balloon tremor38 but 'BIKE' magazine did a group test against the 1200GS, Ducati Multi 1200, and the S10. They even had Simon Pavey along as a guest tester. The S10 was deemed adequate, but no match for either the GS or Multi.
Pavey just happens to be contracted by BMW to run their UK off road school. This is a bit like putting the BMW S1000RR into the hands of the guy in charge of the Yamaha factory-supported WSBK team and expecting a fair and balanced opinion.

Oh, and the mag happened to be bundled with a second glossy supplement-cum-advertorial marking 30 years of the GS, subtitled - in big capital letters - THE BIKE THAT CHANGED THE WORLD. No danger of the 3 way test being a foregone conclusion then...

Apart from Pavey, the two other testers confessed to being off-road novices at best. Their copy was riddled with unsupported subjective opinion. As for the "facts" they reported? Well, compare the performance figures quoted above by R3B. Or consider that Pavey remarked on the number of shared parts with other Yamaha models (it's an all-new design, with no shared bits at all that I can see apart from the usual common switchgear - and a rear light lens off an R6).

Or magazine readers could just do what I did and test the bike against the 2010 R1200GS for themselves before deciding which is better. I didn't bother with the Multistrada since it's self-evidently aimed at a different market and intended use -- witness the relative absence of user ride reports for that bike coming from an off-road perspective.

Strip the subjectivity and the factual inaccuracies out of the Bike mag test and what you're left with is one key (genuine) point of criticism - and the chief obstacle to the bike achieving sales success against the GS in the UK. That's pricing: unlike in the States or Oz the Yamaha is actually more expensive in the UK than the comparable BMW.
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Old 10-09-2010, 12:43 AM   #4895
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocca
. That's pricing: unlike in the States or Oz the Yamaha is actually more expensive in the UK than the comparable BMW.
Umm no.

A comparable BMW costs more, a basic GS costs less, or so I have been led to believe from some people that didn't end up buying the BM.

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Old 10-09-2010, 01:04 AM   #4896
rocca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamD
Umm no.

A comparable BMW costs more
Which country are we talking about?
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Old 10-09-2010, 01:45 AM   #4897
Old Git Ray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
Sorry to burst your balloon tremor38 but 'BIKE' magazine did a group test against the 1200GS, Ducati Multi 1200, and the S10. They even had Simon Pavey along as a guest tester. The S10 was deemed adequate, but no match for either the GS or Multi.

We are still waiting up here in Canuckistan for Yamaha to release the CDN$ price. My local dealer went to the Cdn intro in Whistler, B.C. last week. He says it was a 'nice' bike to ride but no where near as fun as a KTM 950/990.

I still want one though. For me it will be perfect and I will do some mods to make it 'fun'.
I have just got rid of an 09 GSA (and a xt660Z) prior to my S10.
Yes the GSA is better in some respects but the S10 is a lot easier to use. It is not top heavy, its easier to pick up than the GSA - see my Post 4734 on page 316 http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=4734
The testers in the UK have got their heads on back to front. One intial test for MCN had two of the testers stating that the exhaust note was important - why - its a dual sport, not a poser bike. Others have clearly just got on the bike (a la GSA) without even picking up the user manual and just rode off, not appreciating the TCS is in safe mode 1. I run on TCK80s and my rear wheel spins on tarmac when I open the throttle in 1st and second. This is a product of the low weight, instead of wheelieing - it spins up. The TCS-1, detects this a lot earlier than the GSA and stops you doing stupid things. Whereas the GSA allows a good high wheelie and when it finally wakes up it then slams the bike unceremoniously back on the deck shutting the power completely. In TCS-2 mode it allows some spin, just enough to get a nice controllabe drift in the dirt. It also takes off a lot quicker. In TCS-off mode, the S10 is an animal. Not as fierce as the GSA (this has been said so many times) where the power comes in with a bang following a lull, but it increases steadily but strongly till it runs out of breath.
The whole bike is lower and a lot easier to use at low speed. Walking pace is easy to do.
When I attended the Horizons Unlimited meet in Ripley, the bikes that were falling over all the time were the GSs and GSAs. This was also pointed out to me by the site staff. On top of that, the gearbox is absolute bliss in comparison.
As for pillion riding, that too is a lot better, the seats are more comfortable and they are flat, not ball breaking ramps as the GSA.
You will not be dissapointed, the testers are talking so much bollocks. I saw in the MCN (the one where the exhaust was criticised) that there was, IIRC, 2 + 1/2, pages of "Unstoppable" ads. As for the ABS not being able to be turned off, what percentgage of riders on a 260kg bike realy lock the rear wheel to turn quickly, I would guess very few plus a few that would like to think they can. If you realy want to turn it off, it is easy to fit a simple switch that will still allow the TCS to work.
On the down side, the screen is insufficient and the Yamaha (Shad) cases are pants.
Nuff said.

Old Git Ray screwed with this post 10-09-2010 at 01:56 AM
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Old 10-09-2010, 01:58 AM   #4898
tremor38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce
Sorry to burst your balloon tremor38 but 'BIKE' magazine did a group test against the 1200GS, Ducati Multi 1200, and the S10. They even had Simon Pavey along as a guest tester. The S10 was deemed adequate, but no match for either the GS or Multi.

We are still waiting up here in Canuckistan for Yamaha to release the CDN$ price. My local dealer went to the Cdn intro in Whistler, B.C. last week. He says it was a 'nice' bike to ride but no where near as fun as a KTM 950/990.

I still want one though. For me it will be perfect and I will do some mods to make it 'fun'.
+1 on *Rocca's* comments regarding Pavey, he's practically a BMW cronie, so his comments can be automatically kicked to the curb. "Fun to ride" depends upon what you're looking for and, unless you have the money to switch bikes like pairs of socks, or have a garage full of dfferent rides, I'd be willing to bet the big KTM will lose much of its luster after a year or so of ownership. Especially after you start inevitably mixing a lot of every day riding into the mix. Reliability issues are much more likely to rear their head.

The Multi-strada doesn't even belong in the same conversation. It's just a super-sport with a bit longer stroke on the suspension. It is simply a poser when you breach the subject of off road worthiness. And we all know Ducati is world renown for their reliability . No way I'd want that in a remote area or as an every day rider. To each his own though.

I'm ready for a review from a stateside magazine. At least then we would see a different bias

I do know one thing. Everybody that has made the switch from GSA/GS to the S10, report the S10 to be superior is most every way. A few hours of 'test riding' on a scoot does not make for a proper evaluation.

tremor38 screwed with this post 10-09-2010 at 03:09 AM
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Old 10-09-2010, 02:46 AM   #4899
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocca
Which country are we talking about?
UK last time I was told, NOT a bog standard GS, one that has been optioned with comparable goodies. Like wire wheels, panniers etc etc.

If I am wrong so be it, but the last time I saw an As tested price UK, the bog standard GS was cheaper by about 700 pounds.

In Auz, no contest.

Cheers
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Old 10-09-2010, 02:46 AM   #4900
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremor38
+1 on Grahm D's comments regarding Pavey, .
That was Rocca,
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:10 AM   #4901
rocca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamD
UK last time I was told, NOT a bog standard GS, one that has been optioned with comparable goodies. Like wire wheels, panniers etc etc.

If I am wrong so be it, but the last time I saw an As tested price UK, the bog standard GS was cheaper by about 700 pounds.

In Auz, no contest.

Cheers
Graham
In the UK the basic GS specc'd up with ABS, ASC, wire wheels is about 12k.

S10 is 13.5k, for which you do get the panniers and light protector thing, but BMW frequently run a "free panniers" offer.

So spec for spec the GS is cheaper. In fact, typical UK GSs are sold with more kit - heated grips, tyre pressure monitors etc - usually packaged together at special option prices. So buyers might be paying nearer the 13.5k in practice, but that's because they're getting more kit than the S10 offers. Hence my use of the word "comparable".

It remains to be seen at what price the S10 will be offered next year (at the moment you can't buy it without the luggage, light protector & belly pan accessories). But I doubt it's going to be cheaper for than the GS looking at wider considerations of Yamaha EU distribution and pricing policy. This is a big problem. GS/ GSA is the overwhelming market leader in the UK and one of the top selling bikes (might even be *the* top seller) over 125cc.
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:11 AM   #4902
tremor38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrahamD
That was Rocca,
OOPS! Thanks, Grahm D...err, or is that Rocca

Changed in original post.
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:55 AM   #4903
R3B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocca
Still waiting on the Yamaha grips...and my fingers are starting to get cold!

Sounds like your experience of the Oxfords is better than mine -- I've never had a set last longer than 2 years and have had much grief with the new electronic control design. Yamaha's appears to be an ugly old rheostat, which will be fine if it works (and ever gets here).
But evebn if the HG's only have a lifetime of two years, for the same money of the Yamaha set i buy 6 HG kits...

And boy was i glad i had them on the way back from intermot :-)

And what a joy it was to see another bike in the centre of attention, every pannier producing shop had his version prominently inthe center stage, even Touratech although they are partly owned bij BMW now.

They have en new lock for their cases which looks really the part, but my favourite are the Givi's really brilliant thinking, a sideloader with a half top loader possibility, really inovative thinking, and very solidly built en roundevery opening a fulllenght o-ring and rubber anti-parts where the hinging parts meet on the base case. Aptly named Trekker :-)


Talked some time with one of the inventors of the system, and *every part* whichever you damage is a loose item so even if you only scratch a "belt" (sort of bumpers around it) you can order it seperatly, you can even order the cases whith the lock retainer and lower retainers that goes on the rack, to build your own rack...

Its a very nice racksystem, dat can be taken off almost completely with trey quocklock fasteners, but i want to convert them to railhanging, with the Touratech locksystem




Stupidly i was so impressed and anxious to know all the details i forgot to take foto's so here a webwinkel plaatje


By flipping two latches, one can choose to open it like this, to only get out maps or drinks, or open the complete side lid !

And a loose Case known Givi buildquality and brilliant engeneering only will set you back 250.

Complete set GIVI Trekker (two panniers & Topbox), including quicklock rack and bags were at the Horner STand for 1008


Best bellypan of all, with sturdy mounting to the footrest retainer, and front mounting at the engine with a angled suspender so it can move down without ripping the mounting points, *and* nicely weathered so it doesn't like a "hey look at this Ape with its new ring" farkle, but like its been on the bike since birth, and made of real bash proof thick alu was at the stand of Hepco & Becker, had a nice chat wild the old bos who was very pleased to hear his new engenir who came up with it had done it so nicely

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Old 10-09-2010, 06:21 AM   #4904
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Good work R3B, but surely you have more???



Did you catch up with Mike?

Greg.
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:12 AM   #4905
jdpower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocca
Which country are we talking about?
In the USA, right now, there seems to be pretty decent discounts off MSRP for the S10 (mine is $11,999). The base GS is $1,000 more than the MSRP of the S10 which is $13,900. However, the ABS and spoked wheels are extra add ons so add minimum of $2,000 more there to equal std. equipment on the S10. So looking at the same equipped bike is at $3,000 difference and with my discount--$5,000 difference. I am not sure how much discount the GS may be had for, but I've been told it is not much off MSRP. I defer to those who know though.

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