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Old 12-26-2010, 01:12 AM   #6031
Old Git Ray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerJ View Post
Thanks for the write up Ray. Will be watching the spokes and nipples because we have similar environmental challenges here in Mexico. Not road salt so much but salt air and water combined with heat (tropical coast). This is hard on metals, and also on electronics. These are two things I hope to be reporting on over time. Having had an unusual amount of electronic problems with my BMW R12GS ADV living here. I have my hopes up and antennae up for how the XT12Z does in this climate. Stay tuned.
I think that was the problem, here in the UK at present we have a lot of salt on the roads, but it is very cold so the reaction is not as severe, but add on some heat and it gets a lot worse. For the electric problems, you could use ACF50 (you will need to google it). This stuff sticks like sh!t to a blanket and although it makes the bike messy it is bloody good and as it does not set hard, you can wash it of with degreaser if you want to.

As for the spoke sizes, the manufacturer did give me the sizes on a peice of paper that I have promptly lost. It also had the angle of the spoke head too. If I find it I will publish it. There are 6 sizes, 4 for the rear and 2 for the front. I will photograph all 6 together and measure them. That way if anyone else wants to make a set up they can print the photo off and measure the spoke head angle them selves.

And yes, they did give me a few extra spokes of each size

As for checking the alignment. I simply got a 6" length of thin flat bar, the sort used to hold cabinets together, to use as a static reference point. I made large hole in one end and bolted it to the bike near the wheel rim. At the rear it was using the bolt securing the brake caliper to the support arm, for the front it was bolted with the front caliper/mudguard bolt. I then bent it into place so it was near the outer edge of the rim with the flat end perpendicular to the axis of the wheel. I then spun the wheels to check the true. The front wheel needed a large weight on the rack (I used a 25 litre water can) to lift the front and I tied one bar end back with a bungee to hold it steady.

Old Git Ray screwed with this post 12-26-2010 at 01:46 AM
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:59 PM   #6032
seh750
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Are the brakes servo driven?

Strongly considering plunking down a deposit for one of these beasties. Been reading about the UBS functionality. Is the front/rear distribution controlled by servos (a la R1150RT?) or do they have a more conventional feel. I really hated the servos on my R1150RT.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:53 PM   #6033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seh750 View Post
Strongly considering plunking down a deposit for one of these beasties. Been reading about the UBS functionality. Is the front/rear distribution controlled by servos (a la R1150RT?) or do they have a more conventional feel. I really hated the servos on my R1150RT.
I dont know how the BMW unit is configured or how it feels on the road, but I can tell you that the S10 UBS is spot on for my style of riding on road or dirt.
It never actually feels like it is dragging the rear brake like I would imagine a non proportional system would, in fact it doesn't even feel like there is any difference until you unlock the system (touch the rear first).

I ride road and dirt very hard on front brakes, and this system has really been a benefit in as much as you dont seem to be reaching for the rear brake all the time.
While standing I now very rarely even think of touching the rear to balance out as it brakes better and more controlled just off the front lever while UBS is active.

I swear by (not at) this system even on Western Australian pea gravel.

Greg.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:12 AM   #6034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seh750 View Post
Strongly considering plunking down a deposit for one of these beasties. Been reading about the UBS functionality. Is the front/rear distribution controlled by servos (a la R1150RT?) or do they have a more conventional feel. I really hated the servos on my R1150RT.
Did you read this bit ??? There is some sort of servo, but not in the car type sense.

"The hydraulic pump pressurizes the rear brake caliper using electronic control to operate the rear brake."

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=3382

Basically is states that there is some sort of automatic adjustment, as I understand it, varying with the weight on the rear end.

Either way, as Greg says, you do not even know it is there and it works brilliantly in every situation I have put it through.

Old Git Ray screwed with this post 12-27-2010 at 02:31 AM
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Old 12-27-2010, 04:02 AM   #6035
shieldsy
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Talking

I've owned a 2005 R1200GS with the servo assisted brakes - the S10 brakes feel much more conventional compared to the BMW servo brakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seh750 View Post
Strongly considering plunking down a deposit for one of these beasties. Been reading about the UBS functionality. Is the front/rear distribution controlled by servos (a la R1150RT?) or do they have a more conventional feel. I really hated the servos on my R1150RT.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:05 AM   #6036
seh750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
Did you read this bit ??? There is some sort of servo, but not in the car type sense.

"The hydraulic pump pressurizes the rear brake caliper using electronic control to operate the rear brake."

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=3382
Yes, I had read that and wasn't quite clear on how the variable pressure was controlled. Although that is a very good explanation of when the front/rear are combined or separated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shieldsy View Post
I've owned a 2005 R1200GS with the servo assisted brakes - the S10 brakes feel much more conventional compared to the BMW servo brakes.
Thank you, that's exactly what I was hoping someone would say!
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:32 AM   #6037
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Thoughts on location for an aux fuse box, I'll do the Eastern Beaver one, compact 8 position unit, about 4x3x2.

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Old 12-27-2010, 09:32 AM   #6038
Old Git Ray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seh750 View Post
Yes, I had read that and wasn't quite clear on how the variable pressure was controlled. Although that is a very good explanation of when the front/rear are combined or separated.
!
I have looked at the wiring giagram and cannot see any specific pressure sensor that detects passenger and luggage etc, so...

I can only assume that this load detection is a measure of rear wheel deceleration (as stated), in that if there is little weight, it will start to lock a lot earlier than when fully loaded. The ABS is so refined that it is likely that this is used to back off the pressure on the rear brake. Sounds like ABS to me but who cares, it works.

Of course, this can be over-ridden by overpowering the brake with the pedal or using the pedal first. Then presumably the ABS works as normal.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:22 PM   #6039
shieldsy
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Thumb

There is a ton of room beneath the riders seat or under the side cover that houses the rest of the electronics and battery. I moved my tool kit under the seat and there's still room for an auto com (or fuse box :-)

Cheers

Shieldsy


Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBill View Post
Thoughts on location for an aux fuse box, I'll do the Eastern Beaver one, compact 8 position unit, about 4x3x2.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:49 PM   #6040
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Thanks, I was hoping for some room right by the battery/fusebox on the right side.

Eastern beaver's stuff is trick.

Part II, anybody take any measurements or ID mutiple spots to hide bags from Corrado113? (vendor makes custom nylon bags)
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:39 PM   #6041
markjenn
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If your electrical needs are modest, I like the EB 3CS fused circuit system which is a lot easier to tie-wrap mount without having to find space for a box.

http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Pr...3_circuit.html

Anybody know the details (where, connector type) of the wiring harness takeoff for the heated grip option on the S10?

- Mark
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:45 PM   #6042
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the heated grips...good question...

I'm going for EB's 8 circuit box--though I have the 3CS on my WR...great piece of kit!

Interested about grips--having to decide about the nice and neat Yammies, or going Hot grips--which you can actually get replacement parts for...recent experience has that on my mind.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:48 PM   #6043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBill View Post

Eastern beaver's stuff is trick.

Yep - I sent Jim a copy of the S10 wiring diagram a while ago - hopefully he's cooking up some S10 specific stuff...
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Old 12-27-2010, 04:23 PM   #6044
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For the left side, a mirror widener from a Suzuki won't fit here, right? I'm looking to install one that had a Ram ball mount on it, just to keep stuff off the bars...

Also:

Quote:
Part II, anybody take any measurements or ID mutiple spots to hide bags from Corrado113? (vendor makes custom nylon bags)
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Old 12-27-2010, 05:51 PM   #6045
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GS1200 vs. S10 sandy trail smack down needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
~

As stated in the link shown above, and now here again:

http://www.dinamoto.it/DINAMOTO/8_on-line_papers/Telelever%20or%20forks/Telelever.html

The measurements for the animation come from an R1100R, which has the same Telelever geometry as both the R1100G/S and the R1150G/S...

Here's the text from the article for you:

"The data used for the Telelever, which refers to BMW R1100R.."

The problem with that is your set-up of "paper and puspins " are woefully inaccurate and in no way actually represent the actual vehicle, especially in the area of either stiffness or attachment.

My "weird set-up" above is from the world's foremost engineering university in the study of motorcycle handling dynamics - http://www.dinamoto.it/ - and I will accept their accuracy, computations, findings, and conclusions far more readily than your paper models and erroneous conjecture.

But the most important part is that you missed the point entirely. Whether the axle "travels forward first" or not is totally and completely irrelevant. The motorcycle is traveling forward, for one, but more important is the *GEOMETRY* involved, as the Telelever maintains trail during the suspension compression whereas trail is reduced during compression of of conventional forks, and reduction of trail *REDUCES* stability whether it be in sand, mud, snow, or on pavement. That's motorcycle handling dynamics 101.

If a BMW has a problem with handling in loose sand it is more likely a result of its high CG, rearward weight bias, short swingarm length, and inherent pitch sensitivity due to all those factors. The path of the axle stroke during suspension compression has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Dallara

~

Sorry if this discussion has already been resolved (I'm trying to catch up on my reading of this thread), but as a former 2007 R1200GSA owner with over 10,000 miles of off-road experience with this particular bike, I am very interested in this topic, expecially since I plan to get another R1200GS or an S10.

I don't like to ride deep sand on any bike much less at big and heavy adventure bike.

The only way to put this discussion to rest is to have a "smack down" (test ride) on some sandy trails with both bikes and several objective riders to provide feedback.

If you really want to have the ultimate test on this, ride the two bikes in deep silt!!!!! (For those who haven't ridden in "silt", it has the consistency of flour and when it is 12" or more deep, it is a real challenge to ride on any bike.

This discussion about handling and ABS is all a mute point until we can get some S10's owners in the USA to do some serious "side by side" comparisons with the R1200GS bikes which have a big following for good reason. I loved riding my GSA and my riding buddy now owns his third R1200GS.

I think the S10 is the first bike to truely be in the same catagory with the R1200GS so I look forward to it coming to the USA. I consider the KTM990 to be in it's own class.

The feedback from European and Austrailian S10 owners is great but I'm not seeing enough side by side comparisons with the GS's in real life trail riding situations, maybe because I'm not aware of enough reviews.

Feedback from actual owners of the S10 and GS's is the most valid in my opinion.

I"m still waiting for a video of the S10 going down a steep, loose, off camber, rocky dirt trail to show all of us, in video, how well it works and how an R1200GS would do on exactly the same trail in the same conditions.

If I buy an S10 when they become available in the USA, I will be able to provide that kind of video feedback and commentary comparing both bikes side by side.

Sorry again, if there is already footage of what I'm asking for. And if there is, please post a link to it.

To date, the S10 sounds like a great bike.

Thanks.
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