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Old 02-22-2011, 03:43 PM   #7021
RogerJ
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Markjenn and SuperCruise.....interesting discussion focussed on adjustability which would give us some more options for dealing with vibration as well as other questions. The more we understand about how this bike is put together and operates the better off we are. Thanks!
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:49 PM   #7022
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Originally Posted by the darth peach View Post

Fortunately, I'm not really in the market for a new bike.
I'd probably still get another Tiger if I was, but the idea of cheaper repair/service bills and parts has entered my mind on more than one occasion......
I'm keeping my Tiger 1050...have no plans ever to give it up. It is just....so...right.

But I will make room for the Super Tenere.....I hope it will be as 'right' as the Tiger is, just with a bit more 'dirt-ability'.

DP...where/how did you get to do a 'extended' test-ride on the S-10?

-steve
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:14 PM   #7023
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I am at loss over the Supa12 vibrating to the point of being a blender. Maybe I haven’t noticed, maybe I have not ridden the perfect 1,200 yet.............
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:23 PM   #7024
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I'm gonna pain my bike like that this weeek. What do ya think?

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Old 02-22-2011, 07:34 PM   #7025
RonKZ650
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Originally Posted by Matteo2 View Post
I am at loss over the Supa12 vibrating to the point of being a blender. Maybe I haven’t noticed, maybe I have not ridden the perfect 1,200 yet.............
Thanks for a differing opinion. I've been waiting now just about 6 months and am beginning to get wedding day jitters. All the talk about the vibration has nearly worried me into just keeping riding my old 34 year old Kawasaki KZ650 which still gets me to work every day without worry. Also starting to worry about all these electric sensors and if I will regret this purchase. Have to wait and see I guess. I think I would now have preferred regular throttle cables to the FI, no traction control, no ABS, no linked brakes. Like I say, wedding day jitters I hope, but still a lot of worries here.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:43 PM   #7026
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Originally Posted by RonKZ650 View Post
Also starting to worry about all these electric sensors and if I will regret this purchase. Have to wait and see I guess. I think I would now have preferred regular throttle cables to the FI, no traction control, no ABS, no linked brakes. Like I say, wedding day jitters I hope, but still a lot of worries here.
Ron,

Don't let it worry you - I had the same feelings when BMW airheads went to electronic ignition! Then fuel injection on the K-bikes bothered me a bit. Then the V-Strom had even more electronics... and they were all more reliable and low maintenance than my old R90/6 with points ignition. That's progress. I don't expect any significant problems with the S10 electronics.

Trevor
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:46 PM   #7027
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Hello Greg! After the getting stopped by the boys-in-blue yesterday and bailing until today......the test is now done. 170 kms paying close attention. Left the screws in the bar ends to have a hard spot to feel for the vibations and changes in them.

WITHOUT ENDWEIGHTS AND HANDGUARDS TEST:

The focus is on cruising speeds where the vibration that both Super Cruise and I are having the numbness and aches response from vibration, that is indicated 120 kph and above.

FIFTH GEAR:
Beginning at 120 kph indicated vibrations begin and increase up to 135 kph indicated where they get a little less. The worst point is at at 126 kph indicated and 4500 rpm where the vibrations are bad.

SIXTH GEAR:
Beginning at 120 kph indicated vibrations begin and increase up to 145 to 150 kph. After 150 kph the vibes get a little less bothersome, that is, from 5000 rpm and up. But vibrations are bad from about 4000 up to 4800 rpm.

OVERALL:

The vibration is worse without the endweights and handguards. The bad vibration range extends farther than with the endweights and handguards attached in terms of the rpm range and the indicated speed.

Hope this helps.

You mentioned that you would Report on the Endurance Bars and your opinion on bar angles. Would love to hear it. Have a bit of time crunch.

In two days, ie. on Wednesday I will be in the USA and be able to pick up bike stuff eg. Pro taper bar of a particular length, size and bend, risers etc. There is very little selection here in Mexico. So.......would like to take advantage of this chance.

In other words, I would appreciate what you think I should try next to resolve this problem to a more comfortable level. That is hand not going numb after 60-80 km and wrists aching.

More bar end weight? How much? Fill the bars with butyl rubber with lead shot near the bar ends inside the bar at the handgrips? If the OEM weights are 7 oz each. How about 14 oz total each side as a new figure, or, a slight bit more. At this point don't have electric grips. Are there any holes in the bar that need to be taped off if they are to be filled? Add a crossbar or not?

Should I be working with the OEM bar by adding dampening inside the bar and weight inside the handgrips? All with a view to keeping the OEM handguards, or, say Touratech's.

OR, leave the OEM bars as they are without fiddling with them and instead changing to a Pro Taper or other kind of handlebar such as SWM's Endurance Non-Shock bar?

Your considered opinion is much appreciated.
Hi Roger.
Sorry for the slow reply. I did receive your pm's but have been flat out organizing parts and processing orders.

I had no idea what to expect with the removal of the bar end weights and the hand guards but I was hoping there would be a dramatic shift in the resonance that might help consideration as to if you go lighter or heavier on the weights.

I find it very hard to comment on the bar vibes/tingling as I have absolutely nill effect on my bike and cant be sure if it is your bike that is generating abnormal amounts of vibes, or if it is individuals that are more susceptable to a certain range of vibration. Either way it is obvioulsy something that is real and bothersome to you and must be sorted.

I changed my bars not because of vibes, but because of correct ergo's for my build and style. This will off course be different for each person.
I am very wide at the shoulders and found in standard form:

1/
The bar ends were bend back to the rider too far. (bars not "open" enough).
This caused me to ride with the insides of each hand (palm area between forefinger and thumb) away from the grips by about one inch.
A test for you to do that will help explain - Assume the hands on bars ride position, either siting at your computer and using your imagination or actually sitting on your bike.
The ideal seated ride position would be with elbows out sideways at 45degrees and forward of the centreline of your body by about 45degrees.
Forearms should be roughly horizontal and parallel with each other, and at bar width.
Now look at the natural attitude of your clenched fists... They want to grip a straight bar, certainly not a bar bent at 10degrees each side.
Bend your wrists sideways at 10degrees and see if that feels comfortable for you. This is why I (with broad shoulders) required a more open bend bar. Bare in mind that if you are slimmer at the shoulders this angled bar end would be more exceptable.

2/ The bars were too close to the rider forcing too upright a seating position.
When the bars are too close (and/or the pegs too high) the transition from seated to standing requires more input and is more tiring through repetition.

3/
The bars were too low.
Same as bars too close makes the seated to standing transition more difficult. Also arms too straight when standing.. Also helped to drop the pegs.

4/
Pegs were too high.
OEM peg position left the legs a bit too cramped and more difficult to stand up than when pegs are lower. Also helped with correct arm position when standing.

That's an explaination of why I have gone down this path, but may not be to everyones requirements.

I agree with the posters above who have said to relax your grip, but, although beneficial, is something that requires retraining and is not intuitive.

I dont believe you will have any luck with bar end vibration tuners (vibranators?) as the hole in the OEM bar end is only large enough for the M8 bolt that secures the end weights.

I have attached a pic of the SW-M Endurance bars that I believe could/should take a lot of the vibes out of your bar ends, BUT, this bar will not fit the S10 without destructive modification to the bar itself.
If you study the pic below you will see where I had to linish the peak from the top front edge of the SW-M right hand handle bar piece.
Check out the same place on the left hand side for an indication of how much material was removed.
This was done to allow clearance for the front brake master cyl as it runs parallel to and wraps over the bar.



I dont know what more I can add apart from saying that I sympathise and hope you manage to get this sorted as I know it can reduce your riding enjoyment.
I had a Ducati Sport Classic that would put my hand to sleep within about 50kms. Those things vibrate so much the dash is unreadable in the 3000 to 4000rpm revrange.
Strangely enough, a lot of that can be, and was reduced to a point where it was nearly eliminated the a well tuned PC3.

Good luck.

Greg.

P.s - You will find a ride report somewhere in the WaspWorks evolution thread that was written at the time I installed the SW-M bars.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:23 AM   #7028
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Originally Posted by Matteo2 View Post
I'm gonna pain my bike like that this weeek. What do ya think?
Cool!
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:50 AM   #7029
RogerJ
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Handlebar Vibrations XT1200Z What To Do?

Thanks for getting back Wasp. Much appreciated. Am away for the next two days. Will consider your observations carefully. Still not clear on go lighter or heavier on the weights but I am thinking heavier. In 42 years of riding have never had my hand go numb like this. So.....am not a bar clencher and nothing to re-train.

If the OEM bar is so hard to work on, and, the SWM bar is also finicky with the reservoirs, what about a Pro Taper? What is the length of a Pro Taper bar that would have to be found to accommodate the grips, switchgear, mirrors, reservoirs etc. You said earlier you couldn't find a Pro Taper long enough. How long were you looking for?

With a Pro Taper how could the handguards work using either OEM or Touratech?

Thanks for taking the time. The pictures are great too.

BTW, everybody relax, this is a rare occurence, not the norm. Your long awaited bikes should be fine when they come.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:10 PM   #7030
Animo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonKZ650 View Post
I think I would now have preferred regular throttle cables to the FI, no traction control, no ABS, no linked brakes.
The reason why I bought the Supa'12 was because it has awesome integrated ABS brakes, traction control that works wonders, sensors for both in order to integrate and a Supa' responsive accelerator system......... You are gonna love it
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:17 PM   #7031
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Wah!?!?!?! Unbeliveable

Yesterday I went on a photo shoot for a friend's ATV tour company. Those ATV's are great fun. They are 125cc Yamahas and they fly around the tight, sandy, rocky terrain the park has cut out of the jungle for a tour track. We rode ATV's around for a couple of hours to different spots for the pictures. About 2 hours later we get a call that we have to return 2 of the ATVs we were riding because the 11am tour was full, so we took 2 of the ATV's back to the main office.

The problem was that we were losing 2 of the ATV's and leaving us with only 2 for 5 people, so I thought "Well, let's bring the Supa12 in there and see how she handles"

The thought of bringing a 270kg bike on terrain that was built for ATV's did concern me at first. The terrain is deep sand, loose gravel, tight sandy curves, rocky terrain, steep elevations that also offer big rocks, sand etc. In short: Terrain for ATV's........



So I took it as the perfect test track to see how the Supa'12 handles off road and.......... OMG! The Supa' was doing circles around the ATV's! Every tight, sandy curve felt paved. The rocks that were bouncing my ATV around felt nonexistent. The loose gravel basically disappeared.


I had the bike on the normal traction control setting and of course the un-switchable ABS you have heard about was always on.



I cannot think of a better location to truly test the traction control and ABS brakes. Get this: I gunned the bike in loose sand/gravel in first/second/third gear without any rear wheel slippage on acceleration.

Panic stops: Stumped on the front brake, then together with the back brake with all of my might in sand/gravel and the bike stopped on a dime with the same tacktacktacktacktacktack you would hear on pavement every time and on all the different terrains (Sand/gravel/rocks/ and throw the 3 different terrains in one as well in some spots)



On sandy tight curves where the ATV's were slowing down (some ATV's leaning so far they were on two wheels on some curves, or ATV's side wiping on the sand around the curve) the Supa'12 was relentless and I had to slow down to their speed to maintain space between us. If I would have been the first vehicle (and knew where the hell I was going) I would have left them in the dust. My friend on the ATV's could not believe a bike that size, any bike really, could be ridden faster and smoother than the ATV's.



I tested the bike in a sitting position and it handled like the BIG dirt bike that I keep claiming the Supa'12 really is.



I tested the bike in a standing position, in some areas going as slow as 10-15kmph over sand, deep gravel/sand and on big rocks the Supa' handled like a trail bike. The balance of that bike is truly unbelievable, I could come to an almost dead stop on any terrain and the bike would not drop one bit.



After hours of fun on the last picture stop I parked the bike on the side stand and without realizing it the stand was on top of a hidden root. A few minutes later after I took this picture



the bike was down, sleeping on its left side. The side stand broke the root, and the bike dug in and fell over jamming itself between the trees. Picking it up was not difficult even though I was between the tree and the bike giving me very difficult leverage. Not one scratch on the bike or panniers but unfortunately the mirror hit the tree and the base of the mirror snapped in half! WTF? After all that great riding a casualty of casualties does the damage.......



The only terrain I still need to test the bike out on is slippery, "I hate this shit" kind of mud and I am not looking forward to that. But I must say that on all other terrains which would make any bike unstable or shaky the Supa'12 handled amazingly well, if not unbelievably well.

I know you guys are waiting patiently, but at least I can tell you that you are waiting for a great thing and that you are not going to believe the Supa'12!
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:35 PM   #7032
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Great report and pics Matteo2.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:46 PM   #7033
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Good to read these favorable reports. Thanks to Matteo and the other guys who have eased my mind about the bike. only two or three months to go now we'll be getting ours in the USA.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:02 PM   #7034
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Thanks guys, I still think my Supa' would look better like a big fat zebra in that jungle
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:25 PM   #7035
the darth peach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by japako View Post
Thanks for the write ups. It is nice to hear what others think about the bike.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tremor38 View Post
Ohhh! How does The Peach get her hands (and butt) on an S10? At a 'dealer' in CA???.. what,what,what?! Nice pic ;-)
Location, timing and homemade choc chip cookies.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadscum View Post
Nice review D P, and your photography is ....... well OUTSTANDING!!

Thank you.

Rergards, Paul
Thanks!









.




It was really a good bike and a treat to ride, esp knowing they are not really out here yet.
Sure, it's not the cheapest, but it's not going to break the bank after a drop or minor repairs, either

The one I rode didn't have the heated grips.... That's a def must!!

Everyone can spec a bike to death, but the real key is, how do YOU feel when you ride it……


And hats off to Matteo2 who shed some great light on this S10..
His reports originally got me kind of interested in the bike
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