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Old 10-18-2011, 03:18 PM   #9841
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze_zaskar View Post

I'm afraid that if S10 owners ever meet and do some big group ride they will be stoned to death, as they are taking part in some "cult".
http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/...ere-quick-look

Quote:
A successful model in Europe that has spawned an American cult demanding its release, the Super Teenere gets moving thanks to a DOHC 1200cc parallel twin powerplant with a dirt- friendly 270-degree crank.
It's the press I tell ya!

Yes you are officially a cult
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:22 PM   #9842
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i'd suspect they are both chinese roosters...and it's a c**k fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstrom View Post
Rema and Dallara... why don't you both give it a rest for a while hmm? As has been said, it's getting very boring. Believe it or not, you BOTH have made valuable contributions to the S10 discussion, but now it's just turning into a catfight. I'm not sure if you're trying to prove who has the biggest dick, or who IS the biggest dick...

Personally I'd still like to hear from you both, but not when it's a slanging match. How about this - you put each other on ignore, then you won't feel the need to respond, but we'll still get your contributions??

Trevor
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:22 PM   #9843
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Originally Posted by Supa12 Pilot View Post
You two seriously need to


You guys are beating a dead horse into more deadliness by each additional post It's dead, get a beer and get over it.
+100 just
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:34 PM   #9844
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Laugh Speaking of facts...

~


Quote:
A successful model in Europe that has spawned an American cult demanding its release, the Super Tenere gets moving thanks to a DOHC 1200cc parallel twin powerplant with a dirt- friendly 270-degree crank.

Wow! Well. wha'dya know! There's Yamaha themselves saying vi press release that the Super Tenere is a *PARALLEL* twin with 270-degree offset crankpins!!!

Of course, what the hell does Yamaha know about engines and the Super Tenere compared to Rema-erroneous!!!



Dallara


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Old 10-18-2011, 03:34 PM   #9845
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Originally Posted by eakins View Post
...and on a less argumentative note...
caribou has a sweet setup

rear rack, plate & removable top box (pelican case)
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=2020
Seems like a lot of value in the top case set-up at that price...and the pelican cases and their ilk are so tough.
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:03 PM   #9846
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Ok, ok, my apologies, I lost it a little back there. After 3 pages of friggin' pistons going up and down (and side to side, and upside down, and inside out, and outside in) I forgot I started this pissing contest by asking on another thread: "What is it that my S10 keeps me from doing wheelies when I gun the bike in first and second gear".

Now you can all flame me for the disturbance in the XT1200z's force.

Anyways, since you two like to heavily debate, and since you two can make my head spin with your tech numbers and theories maybe you can finally shed real light on this: (You too really, if you figured it out)

Long winded: "Why is it that my S10's ABS works on gravel, sand (that still flips me out, they work on sand) mud, all loose surfaces but I need to switch off my ABS on my BMW in order to keep from killing myself off pavement?"

Is Yamaha using different sensors? It is a totally different ABS system than the others on the market with the "off switch"? Is it the ABS combined with the UBS? (not that it should matter much actually, the UBS just works both brakes together, another fantastic quality of the S10)

Has anyone actually figured it out besides the old "the ABS just magically works" and that is all there is to it?
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:14 PM   #9847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEN YC View Post
Trubrit, I suggest that you go sign up on yamahasupertenere.com

mostly real owners with real imformation. Not like the trollimg and arguing that goes on here. I find it to be a much nicer place to talk about this bike
Beat me to it! And this is why.....

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/ind...;topicseen#new

See ya over there.
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:21 PM   #9848
Dallara
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Talking Sample rate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supa12 Pilot View Post
Ok, ok, my apologies...

"Why is it that my S10's ABS works on gravel, sand (that still flips me out, they work on sand) mud, all loose surfaces but I need to switch off my ABS on my BMW in order to keep from killing myself off pavement?"

No apologies necessary... At least not to me!

To try and answer your question - and mind you, this is an educated guess given I don't have any of the specifics on Yamaha's ABS system internally or it's software - but I would have to surmise a lot of the system's wonderful character and composure off-road, compared to BMW's, has to do with sampling rate. All the BMW's I have seen use a toothed "gear" and a Hall-effect sensor to determine wheel speed, and this provides for a rather low sampling rate. OTOH, the Super Tenere uses a magnetic strip in each hub and a sensor similar to that which reads a hard drive's disc platters, and there is no telling how many data sampling points are encoded on that strip but you can readily guess it's a whole lot more than the limited number of teeth on BMW's "gear". Many sampling data points per second equals more finite control, especially in sensing rates of change...

It is my guess that the systems ability to more rapidly and completely read those rates of change in wheel speed are what give the Yamaha its edge in ABS performance.

Hope this helps!

Dallara


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Old 10-18-2011, 04:23 PM   #9849
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supa12 Pilot View Post
[COLOR=silver]
]Long winded: "Why is it that my S10's ABS works on gravel, sand (that still flips me out, they work on sand) mud, all loose surfaces but I need to switch off my ABS on my BMW in order to keep from killing myself off pavement?"
Is Yamaha using different sensors? It is a totally different ABS system than the others on the market with the "off switch"? Is it the ABS combined with the UBS? (not that it should matter much actually, the UBS just works both brakes together, another fantastic quality of the S10)

[COLOR=#000000][COLOR=silver]Has anyone actually figured it out besides the old "the ABS just magically works" and that is all there is to it?>
1) It's a different ABS system as regards pickups.
2) It has more fine grained control on the sensors (more pulses per rotation)
3) It is also linked which helps
4) It has an accelerometer to help interpret what the result is VS the expected result and can re-act accordingly.
5) It was tweaked to work smoothly, by testing it extensively off road for about a year.
6) A lot of info is in the manual apparently. Old_git_Ray posted up a bunch of stuff a long time ago.
7) It is blessed by Buddhist monks in special ceremonies each time they run a batch.
8) Most other ABS manufacturers will have new generations out soon.
9) Japanese bikes in general have smoother acting ABS systems which probably helps off road anyway.
10) The Honda Fire blade is apparently the ABS system which all others are judged against On tarmac at least according to das mottorad (I can never spell that anyway)
11) Thankfully no one on this thread had much to do with its design. They would still be arguing about it.


It's not one single thing. It's a lot of improvements in hardware and software over existing systems that will find their ways into other bikes as times goes on.
It is not going to do better than a well practiced, alert, experienced rider in some situations. but it doesn't get tired, get distracted or panic.

The European legislators keep threatening to make non switchable ABS compulsory Soon. YAMAHA has reacted by put resources into trying to make that work. Others have reacted by putting resources into lobbyists to overturn the legislation. It's like a "Rema Vs The rest" punch up in Parliament.

Just watch a few of these bikes. (if you understand German even better). The S10 is in there, but is just shown stopping smoothly like the Honda.



Cheers
Graham
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GrahamD screwed with this post 10-18-2011 at 05:40 PM
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:49 PM   #9850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rema in Paluda View Post
I'm doing my best to get him to understand simple concepts.... the name calling and shouting just increases every time i try to educate him a bit....
Stop It!
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:59 PM   #9851
Animo
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Don’t worry about that too much Truebrit, it's just been the past couple of days, all will come back to normal soon. Some people just have a lot of technical knowledge that is delivered a bit abruptly at times (some all the time) but that is what makes ADV a fun read.

yamahasupertenere.com is a good S10 specific site, but you will see some of the same arguments there as well.

I am sure you have found this thread already, but if not, I will say it is by far the most S10 informative thread on ADV. Page 1 to eternity is the "how to" manual you will never receive from Yamaha.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=595933

As far as the big space between the handle bars and the console I have not seen anything being placed there thus far. Some people have mounted the heat control for the heated hand grips under the speedometer, but that is about it. You are right that there is a lot of space. You could mount a glove box or a flat screen TV in there
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:17 PM   #9852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ze_zaskar View Post
I'm starting to belive that there are some kind of "S10 curse....Its weird, as we don't see this as much on other forums.
I think it's pretty much universal in any forum like this - you get some who are at either end of the spectrum and just can't let another's opinion stand without striking back. I remember the Strom and F800 had similar discussions early on. It's more human nature rather than the S10's nature.

There is a tool on most forums to ignore users who you think are more noise than substance. It works remarkably well.

- Mark
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:11 PM   #9853
Animo
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Thanks guys, I was thinking that is was more of a software reason rather than a purely mechanical reason for the ABS function. The ABS system saved my ass more times than I can count for the past year.

Just the other day I was riding back from Mexico City on a 4 lane highway. They had road construction and the 4 lanes merged to the opposite 2 lanes turning the road to a two lane highway.

I was the only vehicle on the road so I kept my speed up. The highway then merged back to 4 divided lanes but the fucktards had poured a bunch of dirt on the switch back without compressing it. It was raining and it had rained for the past 2 days.

The problem was that I was riding at 160kmph, I veered right for the merge back into the 2 divided one way lanes, the bike hit the mud and stared fishtailing. ( I was fully loaded, panniers, top box and travel bag as pillion. I must have weighed 1,000lbs)

I did the worst thing you could do on any bike, I grabbed a handful of front brake (in panic? Most likely).

My legs went numb and all I could hear was the "TAK, TAK, TAK, TAK, TAK, TAK" of the ABS and within what felt like milliseconds the bike was down to 30kmph as if nothing happened and it then easily crossed over all the mud.

I do agree with reason number 7 the most:

7) It is blessed by Buddhist monks in special ceremonies each time they run a batch.

The S10 rocks!
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:25 PM   #9854
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To all who are arguing (Rema/Dallara, etc)..

Guys...you really look like girls with PMS or somebody who hasn't got laid for a year...

Please get a life, enjoy your bikes (any brand) and let this thread be a source of info about the XT1200Z...

Som good sentence to think about

1.- Live and let live....
2.- Who is more dumb, the dumb or the one who answer
3.- Relax and enjoy

JC

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Old 10-18-2011, 06:53 PM   #9855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supa12 Pilot View Post
Thanks guys, I was thinking that is was more of a software reason rather than a purely mechanical reason for the ABS function. The ABS system saved my ass more times than I can count for the past year.

Just the other day I was riding back from Mexico City on a 4 lane highway. They had road construction and the 4 lanes merged to the opposite 2 lanes turning the road to a two lane highway.

I was the only vehicle on the road so I kept my speed up. The highway then merged back to 4 divided lanes but the fucktards had poured a bunch of dirt on the switch back without compressing it. It was raining and it had rained for the past 2 days.

The problem was that I was riding at 160kmph, I veered right for the merge back into the 2 divided one way lanes, the bike hit the mud and stared fishtailing. ( I was fully loaded, panniers, top box and travel bag as pillion. I must have weighed 1,000lbs)

I did the worst thing you could do on any bike, I grabbed a handful of front brake (in panic? Most likely).

My legs went numb and all I could hear was the "TAK, TAK, TAK, TAK, TAK, TAK" of the ABS and within what felt like milliseconds the bike was down to 30kmph as if nothing happened and it then easily crossed over all the mud.

I do agree with reason number 7 the most:

7) It is blessed by Buddhist monks in special ceremonies each time they run a batch.

The S10 rocks!
Graham is right in that Yam basically has put a number of details together and it's an evolutionary step that the others will probably soon catch up with. We've seen this in aerospace, too.

But you are actually more correct about the software. The new antiskid software doesn't just compare wheel to wheel, it looks at speeds and changes in rate for each wheel (alone) at the pulse level and then uses REALLY fancy algorithms to determine how best to respond. The algorithms are the black magic and some of the best kept trade secrets.
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