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Old 12-13-2011, 06:22 AM   #10381
Ze_zaskar
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One of Yamaha's biggest mistakes with the S10 is the marketing. If you check their highlight features on the brochures, etc, they keep talking about the same old stuff, that's not even the best things about the S10. Things like "great engine performance", "T and S mode" etc. They should highlight stuff like the durable frame, the two sided swingarm, the high quality USD fork, understessed relatively low compression ratio engine, and so on. By this I mean things that really distinguish the Tenere from the GS
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:18 AM   #10382
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
I love it in spite of the fact is is overweight and (slightly) underpowered, but not because of these things. I just think Yamaha's cost control accountants had their way on some key decisions that pushed the bike in the direction of more poundage and less power.

- Mark
Clearly you can have strength and lightweight but it comes at a cost. Yamaha didn't want to introduce the S10 into the market with the cost that would have made it as expensive as the GS or the KTM. That would never have worked with their customers. The price had to be low. Many have stated that they were able to buy it for under $13,000. That is a good price and some will deal with all the weight to get it for that price.

Suzuki continues to make it's adventure tourers at a very low price instead of designing a motorcycle that would go to the top of the class too.

Sales have been anything but stellar for the S10. Maybe if Yamaha had designed it to be as good of a bike as possible instead of being a value bike, it could have been much lighter and have much better engine performance.

If they do a redesign of it in a few years, it will be interesting to see if they step up and re-introduce it with everything it would need to go to the front of the class. That will make it much more expensive though and that may not be what Yamaha's customer base wants.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:55 AM   #10383
dcstrom
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Originally Posted by Rick West View Post
Sales have been anything but stellar for the S10.
Not sure how you know that Rick? It depends how you define "stellar" I guess. I know they've been slow sellers in the UK - but that's mainly down to price (you're right about Yamaha needing to keep the price down, and UK sales prove it). In the US, at US pricing, my sense is they've sold pretty well (but not stellar). If they hadn't they would have continued with the PDP rather than bringing them as floor stock - I would have thought. I know my dealer in Romney WV sold 9 PDP, and another 4 since then. Every week on the yamahasupertenere.com forum I'm seeing a handful of people who've just gotten their new S10.

Until we get the real numbers (via registration data, I assume), I think it would be more accurate to say they've sold reasonably well. "Anything but stellar" to me translates to "poorly" which is just not true.

Trevor
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:47 AM   #10384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick West View Post
Sales have been anything but stellar for the S10. Maybe if Yamaha had designed it to be as good of a bike as possible instead of being a value bike,
You're like the guy who keeps eyeballing a good looking girl but continues to deny they are really interested in her. That's why you hang out here isn't it

Sales based on registrations from June 2010 to May 2011
KLR 4006
R1200GS 1142
R1200GSAdv. 1009

Based on VIN's published for the recent fuel pump O ring recall it affected 1077 units. Most if not all those have been sold according to dealers on the st forum.

Seems like a pretty good first year to me.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:53 AM   #10385
roarin calhoun
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In what way is the Yamaha's weight a disadvantage over the GS's? Specifically? I've owned both & ride on dirt a lot & for the kife of me I can't find anything the GS does better than the Tenere.The Tenere actually feels more stable in the nasties,is easier to ride standing up & has ,so far, gone everywhere my old GS did with NO problems. The GS's advantages are what?
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:58 AM   #10386
markjenn
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It's hard to know what Yamaha's expectations were for first year sales, but I doubt 1K US units exceeded them. And despite saying the PDP was "build to order" they had units left over - this might be an artifact of the tsunami and canceled sales. But overall, both the absolute number and the surplus indicate to me that they did Okay at best.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Yamaha aimed dead-on for the GS when they built the S10. And I am skeptical that there original design vision document said, "For reasons of reliability and to provide room for improvement, we're going to build the S10 to be 45 lbs heavier and have five less horsepower."

So both on sales expectations and performance expectations, I'd call it a near miss.

- Mark
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:47 AM   #10387
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Here we go again, IT"S HEAVY, blah blah blah, 5 less horsepower, blah blah blah, sales down the drain blah blah blah

bit of a "big lardy fat pig" - it is currently the heaviest adventure bike out there





Here's mine, best looking bike on the block, go buy one instead of bitching

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Old 12-13-2011, 12:25 PM   #10388
GarageMonkey
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And beyond that, what does it matter how well it sells? I (we) have one now and all the major farkle manufacturers have stepped up and offered their full line. The sales numbers don't affect me (us) in any way. It's going to be slow-going for a brand-new model bike, that's just how it is.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go for a ride.
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:32 PM   #10389
Dallara
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Laugh Ignore Rick the *rick & Mark "I So Wan'cha to Think I'm an Expert" Jenn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldie05 View Post
Here we go again, IT"S HEAVY, blah blah blah, 5 less horsepower, blah blah blah, sales down the drain blah blah blah

bit of a "big lardy fat pig" - it is currently the heaviest adventure bike out there







Amen, Goldie! Amen!

Honestly, I don't care how the specs say it weighs - It works for me.

And I don't care how much "horsepower" (which is nothing more than a mathematical construct anyway) anyone says it does or doesn't make - It works for me.

And I care even *LESS* what any spoiled magazine tester says, much *LESS* what any forum mega--posters or self-professed "experts" - It works for me.

And in all reality I could care less how many of them Yamaha has sold, here or anywhere else - I have one, it works for me, and that's all that really counts in this narrow scope.

The rest is really just useless blather when you come right down to it.

For those of you who don't like the Super Tenere, and don't own one, there are plenty of other forums and threads you can prattle in, bashing it and stroking your own and each other's orange- or propeller-driven fragile egos...

For those that own it and don't like it, or want Yamaha to fail, or are disappointed in buying one, etc., then by all means you should sell it and get something that makes you happy. There are lots of bikes to choose from, and hopefully one will meet both your needs and your expectations.

Meanwhile, what difference, honestly, does it make how many they've sold?

Dallara



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Dallara screwed with this post 12-13-2011 at 01:22 PM
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:58 PM   #10390
roarin calhoun
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Well, yeah to the above. But where,exactly, does this weight problem of the Tenere show up making it less desirable on dirt than the competition--the GS or the GSA? Darn if I can find it. The Tenere's more stable on rock gardens, Traction control is great in mud & snow. The ABS brakes work swell ,rear brake's fine, and dirt doesn't screw up the ABS system as it did( a lot) on the GS. It seems easier to hold a line(say in a deep rut) than the my old GS did. It climbs great,good torgue.Not top heavy & is easier to hold up with one leg if it slips,say, in sand. Doesn't slip in soft ,steep corners like the GS did. Haven't had a headlight bulb burn out yet(did often on the GS). It's suspension has a wider range of adjustment. The only rub I've found is dirt & sand collect on the ignition key hole. Hope it doesn't screw up the connection someday. What's the problem??? Am really curious.
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:03 PM   #10391
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Well. Some differing views here. After 18 months I still prefer my Yam. The GSA was a clitoris bike, every cnut had one.
Now things are changing, there is now more choice (including the Ducatis and Triumphs) and that is a good thing. BMWs arrogance in resistance to change has been bourne out by the fact that they resisted modifying their unreliable components for years. Now they have changed their engines to suit new emmission controls and the shaft is now on the other side. You can bet that it will now be a lot more durable as there are more players on the field.
The bikes may be similar in terms of specs but the Germans lost out to arrogance. I only bought a GSA due to the lack of choice and the need for a big enduro bike for 2 people. I was fully aware of the reliability problems with the BMW before purchase but was cornered into buying the GSA due to lack of anything of similar stature.
Now there is a choice and BWM have finally realised it.

And the Yamaha rides a lot better and easier on and off road than my old (new) 09 GSA. And even now, after 18 months of ownership, I have not heard of one not being able to be ridden home for reliability problems.

If this does not make sense it is because I am drunk whilst writing it. Sorry. Hic...
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:39 PM   #10392
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Sorry....

I am not trying to disrespect the BMW.

I never let me down. It was easy to pick up.The gearbox was very smooth. The switches were exactly where you would expect them to be. Changing a clutch could be done within a day or so. The service light reminded me I had far too much spare cash in my wallet. It was very manouverable on long straight roads. Oh, and the nearly new TCK80s fitted my new S10.

The bike had a lot of good points.
.
.
.
.
Just not enough........ Sorry.....still drunk........
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:41 PM   #10393
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Time for a pic:

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Old 12-13-2011, 02:29 PM   #10394
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
.
Sorry.....still drunk........
Too much Land Rover Ray?
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:43 PM   #10395
BobLoblaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
It's hard to know what Yamaha's expectations were for first year sales, but I doubt 1K US units exceeded them. And despite saying the PDP was "build to order" they had units left over - this might be an artifact of the tsunami and canceled sales. But overall, both the absolute number and the surplus indicate to me that they did Okay at best.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Yamaha aimed dead-on for the GS when they built the S10. And I am skeptical that there original design vision document said, "For reasons of reliability and to provide room for improvement, we're going to build the S10 to be 45 lbs heavier and have five less horsepower."

So both on sales expectations and performance expectations, I'd call it a near miss.

- Mark
so you don't know what Yamaha's first year sales expectations were but you're still able to declare a near miss
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