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Old 12-18-2011, 08:41 AM   #10441
tremor38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundu View Post
yes, South African S10's are also restricted and no fix in SA at this stage - irritates me tremendously and I'm looking at getting the new Triumph Explorer - might keep the S10 though, as it's a great bike, except under powered to my liking
I know you've been to the S10 Forum and know about the Diapason ECU flash as well as the very positive reports from the PC/AT thread. Not sure why having more power is such an absolute necessity, but it's not as if you have no options. Does the solution have to come from within your borders? I'm guessing this must be a cost issue with customs, etc.

Reports are that the PC/AT along with the Arrow header and your choice of slip-on turns this machine into a beast. Around five of us at the S10 forum have sent our ECU's in for reflash. For me, it's not a matter of feeling the power is lacking, which it isn't IMO. It's just the thought of somebody putting a 'restiction' on my bike. LOL! When I twist the throttle to the stop, I want WOT, not 'something less than' WOT in gears 1-4 below 5000RPM.
Good luck with whichever direction you take. Maybe the Explorer is what you're looking for, because I'm getting the impression that you want more top end pull.
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:43 PM   #10442
spacekadet
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Potential owner ... some questions

Hi adventurers,

Madam has suddenly decided she wants to accompany me on ADV rides so now I am in the market for a two-up bike, which is really new territory for me. A couple of hours of googling has left me none the wiser on a few critical questions that will help me decide whether the S10 this is a suitable bike for me. Anyway...

1. Lifting the bike. I weight 78kg and I'm 175 cm (just under 5'10"). For reference I can lift a GS1200 comfortably, but could only just lift my old F650 Dakar, without luggage. It's odd the smaller bike is harder ot lift, but I compared them back to back on a rider training course and there's no doubt about it. Any comments on my likely ability to lift it? This is important!

2. ABS kill switch. I understand that it's not provided by Yamaha. I read a suggestion that there's some tricky thing you can do with the stand and starting sequence to disable the ABS. I'm aware it can be done by adding a switch and I have sufficient electrical skills to do it but I'm looking for something that won't void the warranty. What is the latest situation with this? (For reference, I'm not asking for advice on whether I need a kill switch ... I do!).

3. Gearing. Darned if I can find this! What is the slowest creeping speed without slipping the clutch, and what RPM is it doing at 100 kmh. This is a big issue when you can't swap aprockets to set it up fora trip.

Appreciate your advice. Guess I'll be back a fair bit if I ened up getting one.

cheers...
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:56 PM   #10443
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Originally Posted by spacekadet View Post
2. ABS kill switch. I understand that it's not provided by Yamaha. I read a suggestion that there's some tricky thing you can do with the stand and starting sequence to disable the ABS. I'm aware it can be done by adding a switch and I have sufficient electrical skills to do it but I'm looking for something that won't void the warranty. What is the latest situation with this? (For reference, I'm not asking for advice on whether I need a kill switch ... I do!).

If you put the bike on the center stand, and then start it and put it in gear, 2nd I understand, and then let the clutch out and let it run for a bit, the computer will be concerned with the huge variance coming from the front vs. the rear wheel speed sensor and shut off the ABS. It then stays off until you shut the bike off and restart it, at which time it will operate as usual.

Sorry about the other two q's, I just don't have the answers...
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:10 PM   #10444
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacekadet View Post

1. Lifting the bike. I weight 78kg and I'm 175 cm (just under 5'10"). For reference I can lift a GS1200 comfortably, but could only just lift my old F650 Dakar, without luggage. It's odd the smaller bike is harder ot lift, but I compared them back to back on a rider training course and there's no doubt about it. Any comments on my likely ability to lift it? This is important!


cheers...

This may help.


You can always try the link thread...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630631

Cheers
Graham
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:14 PM   #10445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacekadet View Post
A couple of hours of googling has left me none the wiser on a few critical questions that will help me decide whether the S10 this is a suitable bike for me. Anyway...

1. Lifting the bike. I weight 78kg and I'm 175 cm (just under 5'10"). For reference I can lift a GS1200 comfortably, but could only just lift my old F650 Dakar, without luggage. It's odd the smaller bike is harder ot lift, but I compared them back to back on a rider training course and there's no doubt about it. Any comments on my likely ability to lift it? This is important!

2. ABS kill switch. I understand that it's not provided by Yamaha. I read a suggestion that there's some tricky thing you can do with the stand and starting sequence to disable the ABS. I'm aware it can be done by adding a switch and I have sufficient electrical skills to do it but I'm looking for something that won't void the warranty. What is the latest situation with this? (For reference, I'm not asking for advice on whether I need a kill switch ... I do!).

3. Gearing. Darned if I can find this! What is the slowest creeping speed without slipping the clutch, and what RPM is it doing at 100 kmh. This is a big issue when you can't swap aprockets to set it up fora trip.
On your "lifting", I assume you are talking about putting the bike on the centerstand? I'd rate the S10 average to slightly harder than average for this size of bike. This is something you should try out for yourself. If you're talking about lifting the bike up after a tipover, its a 575-lb (before accessories and luggage) bike and no matter who you are, lifting a bike like this is a challenge, especially in the situations where you're likely to have a tipover - slippery, rocks, ruts, etc.

The ABS fault "trick" is to run the bike on the centerstand for a period. It works, but is a bit of a PITA and the bike forgets the fault after any cycle of the ignition switch. If you are going to want to turn the ABS off/on frequently, I'd add a switch - its fairly well-documented how, although I'm unaware of anyone with a true plug-n-play kit that is readily available at low cost.

My take is that with a stock bike, about 15 mph is a reasonably smooth trolling speed and below this you're going to have to slip the clutch anytime the bike is under load. The S10 is geared tall. There are reports that fiddling with the tuning of the bike can improve this, but I wouldn't depend on it. This is not the best bike for rock crawling.

Overall, the gist of your questions has me questioning whether the S10 is the best choice for you. It can certainly be made to work, but the bike is best suited to bigger folks and better roads where a always-on ABS system and fixed gearing are less of a concern. There are better choices if off-road is your priority - the KTM 990 comes immediately to mind, although its seat height may be a bit higher. And the GS is about 45-lbs lighter. If you don't plan on doing a lot of open-road, high-speed touring, I like the 800's as a more manageable package.

- Mark
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:30 PM   #10446
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post

Overall, the gist of your questions has me questioning whether the S10 is the best choice for you. It can certainly be made to work, but the bike is best suited to bigger folks and better roads where a always-on ABS system and fixed gearing are less of a concern. There are better choices if off-road is your priority - the KTM 990 comes immediately to mind, although its seat height may be a bit higher. And the GS is about 45-lbs lighter. If you don't plan on doing a lot of open-road, high-speed touring, I like the 800's as a more manageable package.

- Mark
The rider can make a big difference though.

The way Mark describes it, you would think it was a Harley..

Sorry to blow 20 minutes out of your life but...

On road, The last "section" has a power up mod and a very talented rider.


Again the last section has a bit of ride talent involved. Mark is no where to be seen in this video, but it should give you an idea of where the bikes limits are rather than the riders.



Personally I wouldn't push the bike this hard most of the time, on purpose. But since I don't own one yet, who knows. At the same time, the lighter the bike the easier it will be.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:20 PM   #10447
roarin calhoun
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
On your "lifting", I assume you are talking about putting the bike on the centerstand? I'd rate the S10 average to slightly harder than average for this size of bike. This is something you should try out for yourself. If you're talking about lifting the bike up after a tipover, its a 575-lb (before accessories and luggage) bike and no matter who you are, lifting a bike like this is a challenge, especially in the situations where you're likely to have a tipover - slippery, rocks, ruts, etc.

The ABS fault "trick" is to run the bike on the centerstand for a period. It works, but is a bit of a PITA and the bike forgets the fault after any cycle of the ignition switch. If you are going to want to turn the ABS off/on frequently, I'd add a switch - its fairly well-documented how, although I'm unaware of anyone with a true plug-n-play kit that is readily available at low cost.

My take is that with a stock bike, about 15 mph is a reasonably smooth trolling speed and below this you're going to have to slip the clutch anytime the bike is under load. The S10 is geared tall. There are reports that fiddling with the tuning of the bike can improve this, but I wouldn't depend on it. This is not the best bike for rock crawling.

Overall, the gist of your questions has me questioning whether the S10 is the best choice for you. It can certainly be made to work, but the bike is best suited to bigger folks and better roads where a always-on ABS system and fixed gearing are less of a concern. There are better choices if off-road is your priority - the KTM 990 comes immediately to mind, although its seat height may be a bit higher. And the GS is about 45-lbs lighter. If you don't plan on doing a lot of open-road, high-speed touring, I like the 800's as a more manageable package.

- Mark
I use my Tenere in dirt,mostly(western mountains,USA). So far,I've found the bike to be every bit the equal of my late GS12. Unlike the GS,my Tenere hasn't broken...yet. I found I can rock climb under 15 mph without slipping the clutch. The darn bike seems MORE stable than the lighter GS--this amazes me. I've taken it the same knarley places I used the GS and have ZERO complaints. I'm no mechanic & know little of gear ratios but I've not had the slighest problem with gearing.Seems fine. Just before the snow flew I took off cross country for a ways thru mountain woods with it. Was stoopid as hell but lots of fun. Thing went where I pointed. It's traction is also amazing. I did have to slip the GS's clutch some but I rode it a lot more too. The seat height is lower than the GS's which I like(I'm 6 ft). In sand I've been amazed at how much easier the Tenere is to keep up right on spinouts than the GS was. You can leg this Yamaha back upright much easier than I could the GS. It''s much easier for me to ride standing up too. Love that. Right now I'm planning several rides for next summer including the Continental Divide Trail. Gonna be a blast. Love this bike. I have GS & Tenere type bikes because my wife loves to go too,but still, it's pretty darn impressive where these big things will go , and I'm no great rider by any means. Come on SUMMER.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:40 PM   #10448
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On the subject of turning off the ABS, I have ridden mine in lots of offroad pretty rough conditions and never had a need to turn off the ABS. Making an off switch is not a simple task, as it will effect the speedo and traction control also. The speed sensor on each wheel is monitoring a round magnet, no disc with holes to count, much more accurate.

There is a lot of confusing info on the ABS on this bike, and most people seem to think that all ABS's are the same, not the case at all. You really need to experience this bike in conditions that you think will need it turned off, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the ABS doing its job.

I have found that the traction control works just as good as the ABS only in the other direction so to speak. TC1 will allow full throttle blows in gravel or marginal surface but keep the rear wheel under control, while TC2 will allow some wheel spin and fish tailing.
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:30 PM   #10449
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So here is some nice easy gravel stuff just for an idea.



Cheers
Graham
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:08 PM   #10450
Dallara
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Thumb One of the very best out there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacekadet View Post
Hi adventurers,

Madam has suddenly decided she wants to accompany me on ADV rides so now I am in the market for a two-up bike, which is really new territory for me. A couple of hours of googling has left me none the wiser on a few critical questions that will help me decide whether the S10 this is a suitable bike for me. Anyway...


1. Lifting the bike. I weight 78kg and I'm 175 cm (just under 5'10"). For reference I can lift a GS1200 comfortably, but could only just lift my old F650 Dakar, without luggage. It's odd the smaller bike is harder to lift, but I compared them back to back on a rider training course and there's no doubt about it. Any comments on my likely ability to lift it? This is important!

Don't let Mark's negativity toward the Super Tenere give you the wrong idea... It's a terrific motorcycle, period. One of the best I have ever owned in my 40+ years of riding and racing motorcycles.

I really don't where he gets the idea that the Super Tenere is "slightly harder than average" to get on the centerstand. I can only imagine he is making the common mistake of trying to *lift* the bike up onto the centerstand. With any bike the proper technique is to *stand down* on the centerstand lever. Done properly you can literally do it with only one hand on the left handlebar... IMHO, the Super Tenere is one of the *EASIEST* bikes to get up onto the centerstand in my experience.

As for picking it up from a tip-over... Well, I haven't ever owned a BMW G/S, but I did own a 2002 BMW R1150R, and I can honestly say that picking up the Super Tenere up off its side is much easier than it was to hoist up the R1150R. I have never dropped either in error while riding, but I with both bikes I laid them over just so I could see how difficult it would be should the need arise and to work out the best game plan, etc. As I said, IMHO the Yamaha is easier to pick up than that R1150R despite that BMW weighing about 60 lbs less. The Super Tenere is also easier to pick up than my Yamaha FJR1300 was. Oddly enough, it is very similar to picking up my Harley XR1200, and both weigh about 580 lbs. I think a great deal to do with it is the low center of gravity.



Quote:
Originally Posted by spacekadet View Post
2. ABS kill switch. I understand that it's not provided by Yamaha. I read a suggestion that there's some tricky thing you can do with the stand and starting sequence to disable the ABS. I'm aware it can be done by adding a switch and I have sufficient electrical skills to do it but I'm looking for something that won't void the warranty. What is the latest situation with this? (For reference, I'm not asking for advice on whether I need a kill switch ... I do!).

https://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-...w=1608&bih=787

http://www.off-the-road.de/XT-1200-Z...XT-1200-Z.html

Shimwells Yamaha in South Africa sells an ABS switch, too, but I can't find the link right this minute... Sorry.



Quote:
Originally Posted by spacekadet View Post
3. Gearing. Darned if I can find this! What is the slowest creeping speed without slipping the clutch, and what RPM is it doing at 100 kmh. This is a big issue when you can't swap sprockets to set it up for a trip.

Appreciate your advice. Guess I'll be back a fair bit if I end up getting one.


cheers...

Though the Super Tenere is, indeed, geared pretty tall... It has an abundance of good low-speed torque and a fair amount of flywheel weight, so it will slog along on level pavement at not much more than a walking pace without clutch slipping. In fact, if you are really careful you can actually get it to idle along in first gear without any clutch work, but again, that's on smooth, level pavement and not loaded down with gear. The fuel injection can be a bit abrupt at really low speeds, so that is really more of an issue than the actual gearing IMHO. Off-road I have no problem trolling along at very, very slow speeds without any clutch gymnastics. That said, I ride with two-fingers on the clutch at all times, and just out of habit I quickly slip the clutch almost automatically if I feel there is even a remote chance of stalling... But IMHO that is never a problem because I think the clutch action is so smooth and progressive. Like most Japanese bikes it has a rather narrow engagement point with regards to lever travel, but that's easy to adjust to, and you can work the clutch with a surgical touch if need be...

And I've never had a problem with the clutch overheating or starting to slip on its own from using it a lot at low speeds. Nothing like how recalcitrant a BMW dry-clutch can get when you use it a bit too much...

Of course, I spent a lot of my riding years riding MX, hare scrambles, enduros, and the like so as I say the clutch fingers operate almost on auto-pilot. But with the Super Tenere's great low-speed power, smooth delivery, near perfect flywheel weighting, and wonderful clutch it makes it a joy riding at slow speeds.

In a nutshell, IMHO... If you are looking for a large displacement dual-sport, *adventure* bike it's the very, very best in class, and I wouldn't own anything else that's available out there right now. It's a truly fantastic motorcycle, and one that only gets better and better each day you own it.

Hope this helps!

Dallara



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Old 12-18-2011, 07:24 PM   #10451
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No easy choices

Thank you very much for that info. I'm pretty confident I can lift it, based on the video. At a rough guess it seems about as much effort as a GS1200. It just doesn't go down very low, same as the GS (and unlike a single). If I want to take this further I'll ask them to lay one down for me at the shop.

It's true an 800 would be a more logical choice, but ... gearing on the Tiger is all messed up (first too high, top too low, no discernable gap between 5 and 6). Haven't ridden a GS800 yety but I'm not confortable with the cost of servicing on BMWs, speakign from bitter experience. Also considering DL650 but don't like the seating/standing position at all. Could be OK with some relocating of stuff.

Have not tried a 990 yet either but plan to do so. It would have to be lowered to be safe for me.

Main reason the S10 got onto my list is becasue there's a handy Yammie shop for me and they have a couple of nice low mileage specimens there, probably AUD $8k cheaper than comprable GS1200.

15 mph creeping is quite high. Not just for rock crawling but also stop-start traffic. How about the cruising RPM @ 100 kmh / 60 mph? It should be pretty low?

I guess ABS technology is improving like everything else. But a big fat lump of bike accelrating down a dirt slope with the brakes cutting in and out is a very scary place to be :( It's a bit like why I much prefer riding a bike to riding a horse. If there's going to be anything stupid happening, let the stupidity be mine alone. I like fire trails and fairly remote dirt roads. But some of them are a long way from home.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:43 PM   #10452
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Originally Posted by spacekadet View Post

I guess ABS technology is improving like everything else. But a big fat lump of bike accelrating down a dirt slope with the brakes cutting in and out is a very scary place to be :( It's a bit like why I much prefer riding a bike to riding a horse. If there's going to be anything stupid happening, let the stupidity be mine alone. I like fire trails and fairly remote dirt roads. But some of them are a long way from home.
The way I see it, coming from Sydney, is that $8000.00 can buy you a bloody good ABS off switch.

Any way go and ride a few, stop spec shopping, you may be surprised and don't forget to ask the stealer to run you through, the Sport Mode, Touring Mode Traction control etc.

Go and watch the eDog200 videos, which will give you an idea of how much slope the ABS can cope with and a range of other stuff. Good coverage, unpaid and the guy bleeds orange.

specifically this one at 5:50.


However, the best results are obtained using the front brake only, so I have read, which is a bit counter intuitive. What happens after it's limits are reached is probably similar to any other ABS.

$8000.00 could also bribe a YAMAHA engineer to customize the whole brake system for you.
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Old 12-18-2011, 08:00 PM   #10453
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At 100 klm the S10 is doing a fraction over 3000 rpm. Stop worrying about the ABS, you dont need to switch it off. Dont compare it to any other bike.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:06 AM   #10454
spacekadet
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Test ride this Saturday...

Self and the good lady are booked for a test ride on Saturday morning. I asked if fitting an aftermarket ABS kill switch would void the warranty (humor me on this one, ok). Dealer says it should be fine if they fit it. As compared to Mr Suzuki who started rattling off all the items that would be voided if I fitted an ABS kill on their DL650. That machine is now off the shopping list. Pity, it's the closest dealer to me by a long way.

If we end up getting it there will be plenty of time to gradually explore the limits before deciding to fit the switch anyway.

Just over 3,000 RPM at 100kmh? Cool. That's what I'm looking for. If that were matched up with creeping speed of 10 kmh it would be love.

I forgot to ask them about servicing costs. Never mind, I'll ask when I get there. It better be cheaper than $700 for a BMW (major service). Also said I want to have a go at lifting it (from the horizontal) - that made him pause for a few seconds.

The dealer asked if I would be making a decision before Christmas! (i.e. within 5 hours of taking the test ride). I've done some impulsive things in my life but that would be rash even for me.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:35 AM   #10455
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There was a gearing chart somewere that showed that the first gear on the S10 and regular GS are the same. A big plus on the S10 is the multiplate, wet clutch design, so you can abuse it much more
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