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Old 03-16-2012, 08:58 PM   #11536
GrahamD
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Motociclismo Italy 9 bike shootout...
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=771999

And the S10 part, can't leave you guys out eh


Quote:
Here, the Moto Guzzi Stelvio ripping us more than a smile thanks to a chassis in place, and Yamaha Super Ténéré uses its great balance to make the hare and pull the BMW R 1200 GS, which remains at the wheel.
Quote:
Among those with 19 "BMW R 1200 GS is confirmed at ease Funds beaten, a little 'less on the rocks because of Telelever. Even Yamaha Super Ténéré, despite the Abs not be switched off, really fun. Of Honda Crosstourer not we like the combined braking system, which however much we had enjoyed on the road as off-road handling of the rear brake must be separated. As for the last time today we are on the west coast, and we wait until evening Piscinas to see the sun dipping into the sea in a beautiful sunset.
Anyone is welcome to translate the translation..

Now remember that MCN shootout where they almost forgot there was an S10 in the group?

I can't find much mention of the new Triumph yet, which is as odd as MCN, but at least they took them off road That gets some points in my book.

Maybe it blows them all away and they are just saving that up for the magazine.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:27 AM   #11537
Old Git Ray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protondecay123 View Post
There's nothing empirically proven at all. That would have the bikes at the same speed, same impact conditions. If someone has done that comparison I would like to see the data. Force of impact versus force of impact. Videos are easily edited. Is there even a video of any of the sump hole crashes with the OEM plate? I would like to see that.
I think that attaching to what you are trying to protect is bad and there maybe some minimal differences due to attachment points but of any doubtful statistical significant difference and due to the large price difference of the plates, very doubtful cost benefit to any plate that attaches to the sump itself. IMHO
I think you have missed the point here.
In the absense of any scientifically proven, lab monkey killing evidence, I can provide experience of both types of plate. However, I did not do it in a lab, sorry.
I have wrecked both my Yamaha one and my SWM one. On the Yam I did it twice, both were just a low speed light taps on the belly plate over rocks just after I bought the bike at about 2-3 mph. On both occasions the fixings, seen below were completely flattened and the plate was then touching the sump. I bent the fixings/supports back into place after each hit.

On the SWM one I bellied out on a rock at about 30-35 mph after a small jump. It was sufficient force to completely deform the plate but crucially it was not attached to, or touching the sump. It saved my bike wheras the Yamaha one would have folded into the bike and the rear fixing would have likely rotated sufficently to pull the rear fixing away and hole the sump.

As to the fixings. AFIAK, no aftermarket bash plate attaches to the rear of the sump like the Yamaha one does. On my SWM one there are 6 fixing points. The rear two attach to a very strong C shaped bracket that itself connects to the sidestand bolts on one side and the footpeg bolts on the other. In the centre there is an attachment to the hard fixing lug parts of the forward sump and crucially they are of a type that allows the plate to to move up and down to a degree, the fixing being a rotational one (i.e. the plate fixing and sump fixing are not in line - see the SWM diagram below). The third, front fixing, is the same as the Yamaha one but substantially stronger.

The following photos show just how weak the Yamaha plate is when compared to the SWM one (and most of the other aftermarket ones I assume). The plate is more substantial, the fixings are considerably thicker and thirdly there has been a lot more thought gone into the 'What if' scenario.


This photo clearly shows the large C bracket that fixes to the bike frame and in the centre the rotational fixing.



This shows the state of the SWM bash plate after 3 days of serious rocky mountain (not 'The Rockies' - the Pyrenees) abuse and the belly landing mentioned above.



This shows how flimsy the Yamaha plate (left) is when complared to the SWM one. The rear 3 supports/fixing (at top of page ) were flattened on both mild impacts. Also look at how thin the brackets on the Yam plate are. These contibute to allowing the plate to move backwards and then snap the rear sump fixing off.

If you need any more convincing, I suggest you go out and buy one and test it for yourself.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:50 AM   #11538
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Ray, that's my point exactly. There are anecdotes and speculation, but nothing empiric. It's hard for me to see how some minor load redistribution is going to offer substantial protection or any cost benefit given the substantial cost increase for the alternatives.
There are a few alternatives which do mount to the frame, rather than the motor or sump , and it seems that those would offer significant increased protection, but again that is sheer speculation.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:03 AM   #11539
tremor38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protondecay123 View Post
There's nothing empirically proven at all. That would have the bikes at the same speed, same impact conditions. If someone has done that comparison I would like to see the data. Force of impact versus force of impact. Videos are easily edited. Is there even a video of any of the sump hole crashes with the OEM plate? I would like to see that.
I think that attaching to what you are trying to protect is bad and there maybe some minimal differences due to attachment points but of any doubtful statistical significant difference and due to the large price difference of the plates, very doubtful cost benefit to any plate that attaches to the sump itself. IMHO

Black panniers are available in Europe IIRC. The look great IMHO.
Now we have a conspiracy against the OEM plate? Aren't you going a bit far calling people liars just because you might be a bit sensitive about critism of something you purchased? Seriously, this is really getting of the chain.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:04 AM   #11540
Mikef5000
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Personally, I couldn't care less what a 'lab' is going to say about the skip plate options. I want real world experience. And lucky for me, that real world experience is abundant. The OEM skid plate is of poor design, is weak, and has the potential to cause catastrophic engine damage. The aftermarket alternatives are much heavier duty, more well thought out, and have not been shown to cause catastrophic engine damage.
As a good aftermarket plate is only, what, $60 more?! I see absolutely no reason to purchase the Yamaha plate.

I really don't understand how you could possibly want more information on this topic than what has already been provided on this and other boards.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:09 AM   #11541
Old Git Ray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protondecay123 View Post
Ray, that's my point exactly. There are anecdotes and speculation, but nothing empiric. It's hard for me to see how some minor load redistribution is going to offer substantial protection or any cost benefit given the substantial cost increase for the alternatives.
There are a few alternatives which do mount to the frame, rather than the motor or sump , and it seems that those would offer significant increased protection, but again that is sheer speculation.
Which ones are they ? AFIAK there are none that attach only to the frame. On this bike the engine is a stress member and acts as the lower half of the frame. As such there is nowhere else at the front of the bike to attach a plate to, other than the engine. Unless of course the plate fixes under the steering headstock which is a long way off.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:45 AM   #11542
Mikef5000
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Changing topics...

I'm planning on adding a happy trails top box in the near future, but I don't love the idea of mounting it to the plastic OEM rack. Googling hasn't produced any worthwhile results. Has this been done successfully? Anyone have opinions?

I see touratech makes their own metal rack to replace the OEM plastic part, but the majority of stuff touratech makes I'm not convinced is really necessary, so I'm not using that as conclusive proof that the plastic won't work fine.

Looks like Jesse Luggage Systems trusts the OEM plastic setup with their top box:
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:41 AM   #11543
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When the rack was first produced the black part of it was prone to cracking (2010 models). Yamaha very quickly upgraded these (a recall within about 3 months of the bike being available) and they are now very strong. Comparing the two is like chalk and cheese. I would say they are adequate for all reasonable loads.
This was mine with a Givi rack and 52 litre box before the plate was upgraded and I did not have any problems.
I changed it when I installed a full Metal Mule pannier and rack system.
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:55 AM   #11544
protondecay123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Git Ray View Post
Which ones are they ? AFIAK there are none that attach only to the frame. On this bike the engine is a stress member and acts as the lower half of the frame. As such there is nowhere else at the front of the bike to attach a plate to, other than the engine. Unless of course the plate fixes under the steering headstock which is a long way off.
Here's one that is not mounted to the engine nor sump.

http://www.rideonadv.com/Ride_On_Adv/Custom_parts.html

Another would be number 2 on the page below.

http://www.rumbux.co.za/products.html

It seems that Yamahas poor design has just been propagated to me that's all. I think the Rumbux with the side crash bar protection is a decently good value and may actually offer some cost benefit
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:09 AM   #11545
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Originally Posted by jaumev View Post
The video is ok but if you want to keep the passenger handles you need to put some spacers or washers to separate a bit the handles.
That is me in the video and we did it with one of the early production Euro models that Yamaha USA was circulating around to the US dealers for display in January, 2011. As you can see, no spacers were required to keep the passenger handles. When we got the USA production bikes in July, 2011 and I did that on my bike, I found that there was interference with the handles, as you mention. Some owners added washers, but most just took a dremel tool and ground out two small notches in the rack so the handles would fit. Evidently there was a small change made from the early production models to later models.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:42 AM   #11546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredz43 View Post
That is me in the video and we did it with one of the early production Euro models that Yamaha USA was circulating around to the US dealers for display in January, 2011. As you can see, no spacers were required to keep the passenger handles. When we got the USA production bikes in July, 2011 and I did that on my bike, I found that there was interference with the handles, as you mention. Some owners added washers, but most just took a dremel tool and ground out two small notches in the rack so the handles would fit. Evidently there was a small change made from the early production models to later models.
What real benefit is there to remove the back seat, lower the stock rack, then have one low rack? I do the exact same thing just using the stock rack and the rear seat in place as delivered. Makes for lots of room for luggage. I've tied on upwards of 100lbs a few times, all distributed evenly and with lots of room using the rear seat, rack and actually even the grab bars can be part of this to hold the luggage. I know Yamaha only recommend 15lbs or whatever, but I see the vast majority of passengers most likely weigh more than 100lbs, so I see no fear in using the rear seat as a rack.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:50 AM   #11547
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Not a major benefit, Ron, it is just that if, like me, you never carry a passenger, it provides a lower platform to put something like a duffle, or my personal choice is my old KLR tailbag, which stays on there all the time. It sure makes it easier for me to swing a leg over when mounting the bike than if I had to swing over the combination of the seat with that bag on top of it.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:53 AM   #11548
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Suspension tuning?

Brand new 2012 model Tenere'. Suspension seems rather stiff for any dirt road adventures. I weigh in at about 240 lbs. I tried going off the owner's manual to set the suspension but it is confusing me. Particularly that it refers to settings on the rear preload with markings that I don't see on my bike. Does turning the preload knob clockwise add preload? How would you suggest setting up the suspension for street use with the occasional dirt road thrown in for fun. What about dampening? I do not plan on taking on any serious trail riding, I'll use my DRZ for that.
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:03 PM   #11549
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Well....all is not well...lols, final drive is leaking

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/morriswf/6990369617/

Or click the super tenere link in my sig line and see the last 3 pix
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:38 PM   #11550
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBill View Post
Well....all is not well...lols, final drive is leaking

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/morriswf/6990369617/

Or click the super tenere link in my sig line and see the last 3 pix
What's the story? Where is your vent cap?

Have you been doing a bit of dirt?
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