The Yamaha Super Tenere XT1200Z Big Thread

[sallydog]

my price was 13100, 14038 out the door. all they charged was bike and tax. i picked up the bike on a trailer and went to dmv myself the next day

[Mikef5000]

Originally Posted by bouldertag

That is what I thought.

I will try to have them cut it in half. No wonder it is for 12.5. They get it somewhere else.

bd

I mean, short answer is you're still paying less than I did in the spring (by a lot), but sounds like they're being questionable. Still a great bike for a good deal, but I don't like dealers like that.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by bouldertag

So dealer fees are $862.83. Does this sound right to everyone? I thought dealers maybe get about 300 to 450 on a sale.

It's a pretty common dealer tactic to start out with a low price and then build some profit back into the deal with fees. There is no standard for what these fees are - it's all up the dealer and how they structure the deal. There is nothing wrong with this if the final price is competitive. Which I think your deal probably is, although it all depends on local supply/demand.

Bottom line: Focus on the final price you pay, not on how it is divvied up between base price and fees.

- Mark

[thebrown]

Originally Posted by ph0rk

Has anyone been commuting 24/7/365 with their s10? What do you love about it in that role, what do you hate? Is the weight a problem backing into spots (uphill) and maneuvering in shitty parking lots? Is the OEM luggage up to the duty cycle (locks, seals, etc)?


I'm thinking T mode for the weekday and S mode for the weekends might just work for me, but I'm worried about weight, coming from a wee.

well ive commuted on mine for about 90% of the last 15 months
done 35000 comfortable km with lots of lane splitting and constant highway patrol dodging
most of the kms are country fast roads so im lucky cos its not as good at splitting as either of the other bikes

ive got a cbr1000rr which ive done less than 3000km on in the same time and a ktm640 jackhammer to look at in the garage when i decide what to ride each day

i dont bother with any luggage or hard panniers most of the time except for a tank bag and tail bag for all three bikes
but i love the fact that i can still pick up a carton of beer or any shopping bag/box on the way home with the super ten (cos i rarely have the rear seat on and a box of beer fits there pefectly!)

never ride in t mode really, except when stuck in snow the other day! (mid spring sydney wtf) and i still get under 5L per 100km out of her

[Gundy]

Originally Posted by markjenn

It's a pretty common dealer tactic to start out with a low price and then build some profit back into the deal with fees. There is no standard for what these fees are - it's all up the dealer and how they structure the deal. There is nothing wrong with this if the final price is competitive. Which I think your deal probably is, although it all depends on local supply/demand.

Bottom line: Focus on the final price you pay, not on how it is divvied up between base price and fees.

- Mark

I thought I was getting a steal on mine this weekend, but in the end the price was $500 more than they quoted over the phone with freight and handling fees. I still have to pay tax too. With an angry wife sitting next to me, they even waived a fee other random fees and threw in a skid plate because she looked like she would pull the check book out of my hands.. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is..... I doubt they were getting rich on the deal though- they are not working with huge margins.

[GrahamD]

Originally Posted by thebrown

except when stuck in snow the other day! (mid spring sydney wtf)

Yeah it got a bit nippy there for a while

[Gundy]

Originally Posted by bouldertag

Well I found a bike for a great Deal. So I thought. There is a 2012 brand new one in Las Vegas for $12,500.00.
It is out of my state so I wouldn't pay taxes there. Only additional fees added to the 12.5 would be the dealer charges.

So here I am thinking this is looking like it will be a great deal and I get a call back from dealer saying the total without taxes with only the dealer fees and bike will be $13,362.83.

So dealer fees are $862.83. Does this sound right to everyone? I thought dealers maybe get about 300 to 450 on a sale.

I thought I read dealers don't make much on the bikes and that most of there money is on returning customer maintenance and selling other products..

Do you think this is still an ok deal?? I don't know. Frustrated now. 800+ bucks for putting a bike together, and housing it? Sounds real steep..
bd

That is a $100 less than I paid, but they threw a skid plate in. Same thing, out of state deal, got me in the door quoting 12,800, then the fees began. Going to be hard to get around that unless they are either going out of business or had an incredible year in sales and just need to clear inventory (unlikely in these times).

[Mikef5000]

Worth noting, some dealerships around here trying to get rid of 2012's have been quoting mid 11's before fees.

[Reposado1800]

Originally Posted by bouldertag

Well I found a bike for a great Deal. So I thought. There is a 2012 brand new one in Las Vegas for $12,500.00.
It is out of my state so I wouldn't pay taxes there. Only additional fees added to the 12.5 would be the dealer charges.

So here I am thinking this is looking like it will be a great deal and I get a call back from dealer saying the total without taxes with only the dealer fees and bike will be $13,362.83.

So dealer fees are $862.83. Does this sound right to everyone? I thought dealers maybe get about 300 to 450 on a sale.

I thought I read dealers don't make much on the bikes and that most of there money is on returning customer maintenance and selling other products..

Do you think this is still an ok deal?? I don't know. Frustrated now. 800+ bucks for putting a bike together, and housing it? Sounds real steep..
bd

Everybody has to make their bread somehow. If you want to save a bunch of money buy a lightly used one and let the first owner take the hit.

[Mikef5000]

Originally Posted by Clayjars

Everybody has to make their bread somehow.

That's true, and this probably isn't the place to go into this conversation, but the way I see it, making your bread by charging hidden fees is utter bull shit. Why do we allow dealerships get away with it? If any other retailer tried that they'd be shut down, or at least vacant of any customers. Imagine your locale grocer; Milk is advertised at $3 per gallon, but when you ring out at the register they add a $1 milking fee.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by Mikef5000

...the way I see it, making your bread by charging hidden fees is utter bull shit. Why do we allow dealerships get away with it?

First, the fees are generally "hidden" only to those buyers who are completely clueless. (If the dealer does attempt to hide fees until the last minute, then I agree, this is unethical.) I've bought a lot of bikes and I've never had a dealer not be upfront about telling me what the total price would be with freight/setup. I'm sure some buyers do get sucked in by hearing a price they like and then getting surprised at the end, but I view that as mostly their problem. How hard is it to ask "What is the all-up price including freight, setup, and any other fees?"

As to whether the practice of selling the bike at a all-inclusive fixed price with all fees or a lower base price plus fees is "proper", I think the dealers have to go with the strategy that maximizes their sales. I think most have found that buyers will tend to initially be attracted to a lower base price and then expect some add-on fees. A dealer who does all-up pricing is probably at a disadvantage. It's not terribly different from the car industry or how almost any big-ticket item is sold. To expect a $15K motorcycle to be sold like a $2.99 gallon of milk is simply not realistic.

In the end, it's a free market and dealers are private businesses that are free to market and price their product as they see fit and we're free to walk out the door. If you want to only frequent dealers who practice "all up" pricing, go for it, but most of us don't give a rip how they divvy up the deal - we just concentrate on the final price.

- Mark

[bouldertag]

Originally Posted by Mikef5000

That's true, and this probably isn't the place to go into this conversation, but the way I see it, making your bread by charging hidden fees is utter bull shit. Why do we allow dealerships get away with it? If any other retailer tried that they'd be shut down, or at least vacant of any customers. Imagine your locale grocer; Milk is advertised at $3 per gallon, but when you ring out at the register they add a $1 milking fee.

He he +1

Thanks everyone. I see its part of the buying experience. Advice does help immensely as i know now that 800 plus is way too high for dealer fees. But i need to be reasonable myself and not expect to get no fees added. Unless there willing of course. hehe

Best advice is to come in with my number i am willing to pay and not go very much over that at all.

bd

[Mikef5000]

Originally Posted by markjenn

It's not terribly different from the car industry or how almost any big-ticket item is sold. To expect a $15K motorcycle to be sold like a $2.99 gallon of milk is simply not realistic.

I purposely simply stated "dealership" in my original rant, because I was including car dealerships in my generalization. But I still don't understand why motorcycles (or cars) can't be sold like a gallon of milk, with a price tag plus tax where applicable. Why is this not realistic?

Besides that, I do agree with you. I've never been taken by a dealership. I've known the out-the-door price before I went in to seriously look at the bike. So hidden may truly be the buyers fault; if you didn't ask, it's not their fault for your not knowing. And yes, free market, they're free to sell however they want, and advertising a lower price and adding fees probably does work. But, it only works because we allow it.

Aaaaanyway.... Bouldertag.... If you're dealership adds $800 in fees, but it's still a good price (it is), and you get good vibes... go for it! It's a great bike.

[RockyDS]

Originally Posted by bouldertag

Best advice is to come in with my number i am willing to pay and not go very much over that at all.

That's what worked for me. I just said I want the S10 for my trade in plus $10k out the door. In the end I did pay 5% more. I could have walked away, but I was happy with that because I knew I was asking over the odds for my trade in.

Plus I got deep discounts on the extra's I bought the following month.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by Mikef5000

But I still don't understand why motorcycles (or cars) can't be sold like a gallon of milk, with a price tag plus tax where applicable. Why is this not realistic?

Bikes certainly COULD be sold this way, but I don't think enough of us would vote with our feet to buy bikes that are sold this way to force the industry to this model. The problem is staring back at us in the mirror.

There have been numerous attempts over the years, both at the brand level and at the individual dealer level, to simplify the buying experience and have more straight-forward pricing of vehicles. To date, these attempts have generally failed because the dealers that use the more negotiated and complex pricing models have attracted more business, forcing everyone to come back to the conventional pricing model.

Back in the 60's and 70's the Japanese mfgs had a policy that the MSRP included F&S and actively discouraged dealers from additional fees. But this went by the wayside and now they have no policy - pricing is strictly up to the dealer. A few years back, BMW decided they wanted to put a standard car-style fixed "destination charge" into their MSRP pricing of motorcycle with the intention of standardizing F&S fees and avoiding customer ill-will associated with non-standard fees. This just caused the dealers to start adding on their fees ON TOP of the destination fee.

My pet peeve is rebates. I hate them, but they must work because they continue to be used to sell things.

If anything, pricing of things is becoming ever more complicated and sophisticated. Price an airline seat lately?

- Mark