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Old 11-20-2012, 06:34 PM   #14401
BobLoblaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
BLACK!!! That's a *FRIGGIN'* insult, Pluric! Why you Mother... Wait, I don't wanna' get like you did!

You damn well know I've got a *BLUE* Super Ténéré - Thankyouverymuch!!!

I think you've been hanging out in Colorado (didn't they just make Gay marriage legal?) too much with those Katoom riders (didn't they invent Gay Marriage?), trading each other's "Depends" and "Speedos"...



Dallara

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Old 11-20-2012, 06:59 PM   #14402
GrahamD
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Originally Posted by jaumev View Post
What is wrong to the Yamaha ST owners??? are we all crazy?
Nothin' much to do except joke around and ride I suppose.

There are a few serious folk in here trying to bust their Tenere's though.

Got a price on that ex demo Plate yet jaumev?

I may need it soon...Bloody Trail bikes.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #14403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
BLACK!!! That's a *FRIGGIN'* insult, Pluric! Why you Mother... Wait, I don't wanna' get like you did!
You damn well know I've got a *BLUE* Super Ténéré - Thankyouverymuch!!!

Dallara

~
Opps, my bad. You're right it's blue. I think I must have confused you and DaFoole.

Dallara, DaFoole. Tomato, tomaato.

Didn't mean to hit a nerve. Well that's not completely true.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:00 AM   #14404
jaumev
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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
................

Got a price on that ex demo Plate yet jaumev?
I though I've sent to you a PM days ago.
It is in the flea market forum:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=834493
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:30 AM   #14405
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Jaumev, could you add some spacers to your fork springs? This would add some pre-load but you may be able to allow for that with the adjusters.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:50 AM   #14406
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Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Jaumev, could you add some spacers to your fork springs? This would add some pre-load but you may be able to allow for that with the adjusters.
I don’t know but could be… I have my springs from BM/Mambatech and they are custom made, they are harder than the OEM ones.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:09 AM   #14407
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I’m still messing about the 21” front wheel.
Next week I’m going to be with ACD to see if they could modify the skid plate, I’m worried it could be difficult… Everything is so tucked in!!
I fixed the Touratech skid plate and if I compressed the fork using all but the last 34mm the tire touch the plate. Less than 34 It could hit the front pipes but I don't know if its possible to use all the fork travel.





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Old 11-21-2012, 05:16 AM   #14408
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During my rides, granted they haven't been as "extreme" as yours, but I have only bottomed out my forks once. It was a pretty decent pot hole in a forest road. It didn't seem that big, compared to some of the other holes we went through that night. That was with stock springs and wheel.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:57 AM   #14409
jaumev
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Originally Posted by TH View Post
During my rides, granted they haven't been as "extreme" as yours, but I have only bottomed out my forks once. It was a pretty decent pot hole in a forest road. It didn't seem that big, compared to some of the other holes we went through that night. That was with stock springs and wheel.
My springs are harder than OEM
The ST suspension is 190mm long but I don’t know if there is any mechanic or hydraulic system who stops the fork before it hits the end. And if there is what is the space it leaves…

Does anybody know?
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:47 AM   #14410
Dallara
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Forks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaumev View Post
My springs are harder than OEM
The ST suspension is 190mm long but I don’t know if there is any mechanic or hydraulic system who stops the fork before it hits the end. And if there is what is the space it leaves…

Does anybody know?


If you were first trying to determine your maximum travel by unscrewing the fork caps and just letting the forks slide down to the bottom then you will not get an accurate assessment of the actual travel. The fork has to be fully assembled, with springs, etc., and then you have to "pull" it down, much like you have with the straps. Usually this measurement will be as much as an inch less as one taken with the forks semi-disassembled. Few forks I am aware of these days use any sort of bottoming "cone" like the old damper rod forks, yet some actually have bottoming "bumpers", much like a shock, but looking at the parts diagram of the Super Ténéré fork it doesn't appear it's one of them. In fact, internally it looks like most upside-down sportbike forks around these days, and from my experience that means the springs run into coil-bind as the fork bottoms out.

BTW, using different springs, particularly if they are of different wire gauge thickness or are wound with more or less coils than stock, can significantly change when this coil-bind occurs. Again, the only way to find out is to fully assemble the fork and "pull" it down until it well and truly bottoms.

One thing, you can make it a lot easier on yourself to check for this point of coil-bind if you pull the forks, drain out the fork oil, then re-install the forks and check the travel. With oil in the forks there is less air-space above the oil and this acts as a spring, but a very progressive one, and as you get close to maximum travel it can get *VERY* stiff. So stff that some fork makers actually use this as their bottoming stop in sense, specifying fork oil height/air volumes that literally bring the fork close to hydraulic "lock" just prior to spring coil-bind.

But this can be your friend if you start to run into clearance problems, that is if you can live with the near full-stroke harshness... That is, if you are bottoming out and using the forks full travel to coil-bind and hitting your header pipes or skid plate with the 21" wheel, you can raise the fork oil height in the tube. This will effectively *stiffen* the spring rate throughout the fork travel, but will really spike it near full-stroke... If you want you can keep raising the fork oil level until there is literally no way the wheel can hit anything. Only problem is you may not be getting all the travel the fork has to offer and the ride will be much more harsh through the stroke of the forks.

Hope this helps.

Dallara




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Old 11-21-2012, 08:30 AM   #14411
jaumev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallara View Post
If you were first trying to determine your maximum travel by unscrewing the fork caps and just letting the forks slide down to the bottom then you will not get an accurate assessment of the actual travel. The fork has to be fully assembled, with springs, etc., and then you have to "pull" it down, much like you have with the straps. Usually this measurement will be as much as an inch less as one taken with the forks semi-disassembled. Few forks I am aware of these days use any sort of bottoming "cone" like the old damper rod forks, yet some actually have bottoming "bumpers", much like a shock, but looking at the parts diagram of the Super Ténéré fork it doesn't appear it's one of them. In fact, internally it looks like most upside-down sportbike forks around these days, and from my experience that means the springs run into coil-bind as the fork bottoms out.

BTW, using different springs, particularly if they are of different wire gauge thickness or are wound with more or less coils than stock, can significantly change when this coil-bind occurs. Again, the only way to find out is to fully assemble the fork and "pull" it down until it well and truly bottoms.

One thing, you can make it a lot easier on yourself to check for this point of coil-bind if you pull the forks, drain out the fork oil, then re-install the forks and check the travel. With oil in the forks there is less air-space above the oil and this acts as a spring, but a very progressive one, and as you get close to maximum travel it can get *VERY* stiff. So stff that some fork makers actually use this as their bottoming stop in sense, specifying fork oil height/air volumes that literally bring the fork close to hydraulic "lock" just prior to spring coil-bind.

But this can be your friend if you start to run into clearance problems, that is if you can live with the near full-stroke harshness... That is, if you are bottoming out and using the forks full travel to coil-bind and hitting your header pipes or skid plate with the 21" wheel, you can raise the fork oil height in the tube. This will effectively *stiffen* the spring rate throughout the fork travel, but will really spike it near full-stroke... If you want you can keep raising the fork oil level until there is literally no way the wheel can hit anything. Only problem is you may not be getting all the travel the fork has to offer and the ride will be much more harsh through the stroke of the forks.

Hope this helps.

Dallara

~
It helps A LOT!!

As you can see in the pics before I compressed the fork with straps to the maximum I could and it was 34mm left, so if I understood your comments this must be approximately the maximum fork travel with my settings (springs, oil, etc.)

Thank you very much Dallara!
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:20 AM   #14412
Thagua
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Use progressive fork springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaumev View Post
It helps A LOT!!

As you can see in the pics before I compressed the fork with straps to the maximum I could and it was 34mm left, so if I understood your comments this must be approximately the maximum fork travel with my settings (springs, oil, etc.)

Thank you very much Dallara!
Hola Jaumev ... I have done the upgrade to 21" on the front modifying the front fender and making the suspension more stiff on the last inches before bottoming with the Wilbers progressive springs.
Saludos,
Roberto
PS.- Remember that I am one step ahead of all innovations
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:37 AM   #14413
pluric
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Originally Posted by Thagua View Post
Hola Jaumev ... I have done the upgrade to 21" on the front modifying the front fender and making the suspension more stiff on the last inches before bottoming with the Wilbers progressive springs.
Saludos,
Roberto
PS.- Remember that I am one step ahead of all innovations
You're right. None of us saw that trailer coming.

How's the Tenere trike kit turning out???? Opps, I hope I didn't mention that too soon.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:48 AM   #14414
Thagua
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Innovations

Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post
You're right. None of us saw that trailer coming.

How's the Tenere trike kit turning out???? Opps, I hope I didn't mention that too soon.
After your kind remarks and help with links my trailer has been cut 32 inches shorter to use it as a baggage trailer .. I am now considering a double wheel trailer as shown on the following picture... and thanks again to all who contribute with ideas to improve our great bikes ... although mine is the BLACK PEARL 'Super World Crosser'

Cheers,
Roberto
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:01 PM   #14415
Dallara
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Talking My pleasure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaumev View Post
It helps A LOT!!

As you can see in the pics before I compressed the fork with straps to the maximum I could and it was 34mm left, so if I understood your comments this must be approximately the maximum fork travel with my settings (springs, oil, etc.)

Thank you very much Dallara!


No problem, Jaumev.

Happy to be of any assitance... Especially to someone like you who has contributed so many fine ride videos and pictures of the Super Ténére´out there off-road.

One note... I just went out and checked my fork travel indicators (small cable tie around each fork tube) on my own Super Ténéré, and my forks hit full travel with an indicated 25mm from axle carrier casting to the dust cap slider limit at the upper edge of the cable tie. That's in actual riding. Though I haven't ridden in any off-road sections as technical and extreme as you have, I do ride fairly hard and have bottomed my forks regularly (as should be the case).

Note this is traveling more than the 34mm you seem to be getting in your pics.

Just for the record, my bike has the full Stoltec mods (stiffer, custom-wound, heavy spring wire front springs, Penske valving, etc.) to the forks, and as such might actually have slightly more usable travel than stock since Nick at Stoltec says the springs he uses have a much more *open* wind to avoid coil-bind so early. With his mods the forks are much smoother in operation as well as more compliant than stock, yet with much more control and precision... None of the indistinct "hobby-horsing" (excessive fore-and-aft pitching) that the stock set-up exhibited. They also smoothly bottom out, with none of the harsh "slamming into a hydraulic-lock stop" feeling of the stocker.

That said, again my fork travel is nearly a half-inch more than your "test bench" travel so you might want to go take another look.

Just FYI...

Dallara



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Dallara screwed with this post 11-21-2012 at 01:20 PM
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